SBR or SBS or ??

Machineguns, assault rifles, subguns, SBRs, etc. Photos, questions, discussion. General talk.

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bkoski
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SBR or SBS or ??

Post by bkoski » Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:41 pm

Savage 42
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/Model42

Say, hypothetically, a person (or trust or whatever...) wanted to shorten this firearm to use as a compact survival weapon...

Would I need two stamps? Would it instead be an AOW or DD?

Any Theories?

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-BK

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Bendersquint
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Re: SBR or SBS or ??

Post by Bendersquint » Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:18 am

bkoski wrote:Savage 42
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/Model42

Say, hypothetically, a person (or trust or whatever...) wanted to shorten this firearm to use as a compact survival weapon...

Would I need two stamps? Would it instead be an AOW or DD?

Any Theories?

Image

-BK
No "THEORIES" it would be an AOW.

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bkoski
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Re: SBR or SBS or ??

Post by bkoski » Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:08 pm

Thank you sir!

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J Krammes
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Re: SBR or SBS or ??

Post by J Krammes » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:27 pm

I'm pretty sure I read that someone tryed to do that and the ATF said no. You can't have the same seriel number with two designations (SBS and SBR). You cant do AOW because it has a stock on it.
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Bendersquint
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Re: SBR or SBS or ??

Post by Bendersquint » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:39 pm

J Krammes wrote:I'm pretty sure I read that someone tryed to do that and the ATF said no. You can't have the same seriel number with two designations (SBS and SBR). You cant do AOW because it has a stock on it.
There is an exception for it to be classified as an AOW because it is a smooth bore AND a rifled bore combination gun. Thats the only legal way to get a stocked AOW.

From the ATF NFA Handbook......
"The “any other weapon” definition also includes specifically described weapons with combination
shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more but less than 18 inches in length from which only a single
discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading. The firearm most commonly
associated with this portion of the definition is the Marble’s Game Getter."

This Savage is the modern equivalent to the GameGetter.

beanfield33
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Re: SBR or SBS or ??

Post by beanfield33 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:32 am

"The any other weapon definition also includes specifically described weapons with combination
shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more"

Interesting...and if the barrels were cut to 11"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7IZZXQ89Oc

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Bendersquint
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Re: SBR or SBS or ??

Post by Bendersquint » Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:23 am

beanfield33 wrote:"The any other weapon definition also includes specifically described weapons with combination
shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more"

Interesting...and if the barrels were cut to 11"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7IZZXQ89Oc
Would require a ruling from the BATFE for that since according to the documentation it can't be done.

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WhisperFan
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Re: SBR or SBS or ??

Post by WhisperFan » Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:55 pm

Bendersquint wrote:
beanfield33 wrote:"The any other weapon definition also includes specifically described weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more"

Interesting...and if the barrels were cut to 11"?
Would require a ruling from the BATFE for that since according to the documentation it can't be done.
It's funny, what can be done, and what can't be done is sometimes all depends on who you talk to. :wink:
There are two classifications of NFA firearm that the Tech branch says you can get a stamp for, but I have heard from NFA inspectors that you can't get a stamp for them ....

Take for example .... I have a Remington 700 rifle (title one) I shorten the barrel, that is an obvious SBR (title two) .... but what if I want to shorten both the barrel and cut the stock into a pistol grip - essentially turning the rifle into something that, if it had been sold that way from the manufacturer, would have been a title one handgun that you could buy with no stamp needed.

Well - I'm glad you asked .... the Tech branch of the ATF has a name for that conversion (shortened barrel and shortened stock) Tech branch calls that a "Weapon made from a rifle" ... an they also have one called a "Weapon made from a shotgun"

The Tech branch seems to think you can get a stamp for these ... but I spoke to people from the NFA branch that said that these classifications are used by the Tech branch, but you can't actually get a stamp for one.

Image

Image

If I won that PowerBall lottery, it would be fun to make a copy of that letter, put it with a check for 200.00 and a Form 1, and send it off to the NFA branch and let the Tech branch fight it out with the NFA branch .... but for my dollar, a SBR is better !
As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such a twilight that we all must be aware of change in the air -- however slight -- lest we become unwilling victims of the darkness.
Justice William O. Douglas

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