NRA press conference

[MV10]

Full text here:
http://home.nra.org/classic.aspx/blog/345

I thought it started strong, got weak and predictable in the middle, and finished on the wrong note.

Since he spent a lot of time roasting the media, right or wrong, that isn't going to win him a lot of coverage for any good points he made, but I guarantee we'll see a whole bunch of the "crazy cat lady" and the other loon who interrupted the speech with their goofy signs and slogans.

[poikilotrm]

You think the press is going to give coverage to any good points he might make? Really?

[silencertalk]

The chances of the press giving good coverage would not decrease because he called them out. The ones who "the shoe fits" will never say anything good. The others don't think his comments apply to them.

My feelings are that schools are the safest places there are - and so it is not a good use of resources to pay for police in each one. We can never stop random craziness - and no matter what anyone thinks, two events per year is very low. You are 17 times more likely to die at the hands of a doctor due to a medical error than being murdered by a gun - and that includes gang-bangers. If you are a school kid, it is extremely low odds - like winning PowerBall (maybe that is not the best example since so many people play Powerball - but I can assure you - you are wasting your money).

As long as people "want to do something" I would love this if it gets the wind out of the sail to ban guns. And as long as we give away money to Pakistan - may as well waste money here instead and consider it a jobs program.

This would cost $5 billion per year for real cops or, maybe 1/2 that for security guards.

The NRA was talking about training volunteers - not just paid cops.

[ronin111]

The NRA was talking about training volunteers - not just paid cops.

I would happily perform my civic duty.

[doubloon]

...
My feelings

... - may as well waste money here instead and consider it a jobs program.

This would cost $5 billion per year for real cops or, maybe 1/2 that for security guards.

The NRA was talking about training volunteers - not just paid cops.

+1 but the schools will never bite without an insured external agency to hold libel.

f#@cking lawyers

[silencertalk]

This guys claims that it is $120,000 per year per guard:

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archiv ... pay-for-it

He finds it necessary to include a squad car and a police station's costs divided by the number of officers. Why include all that? It is just a contract security guard.

He also adds in private schools - when they should pay their own way.

I am sure people would line up around the block to do it for $35,000.

BTW - it seems like the NRA is finally pro black-gun. They are not going to budge on ARs or magazines.

Everyone of you who refused to be an NRA member - I think you should join now (really you should have joined before, as any organization is a reflection of the people who belong to it and you get to vote for the leadership).

[bakerjw]

BTW - it seems like the NRA is finally pro black-gun. They are not going to budge on ARs or magazines.

If they are, then I will become an NRA member. From what I heard, they made some valid points.

One thing that really needs to be pounded out to anyone that will listen is that Connecticut has an AWB like the one that Fineswine is going to propose. An AWB didn't stop a mentally ill person from doing what they did.

[doubloon]

This guys claims that it is $120,000 per year per guard:
...

The $120K/yr is probably not going to the guard, at best I would expect maybe half that to be paid directly to the guard. The rest will get chewed up in benefits, insurance, equipment and "training".

[chrismartin]

The school system I work for already has a uniformed police officer in each highschool and middle school. We also have several others that rotate through the elementary schools.

They are useful for more than the impossibly rare school massacres. There are always fights, thefts, drugs, etc to deal with.

[bakerjw]

Right after I graduated high School in 81, they brought in a plain clothes police officer. The post was called a liaison officer. One has been there ever since. Some of the kids even had Officer Glover day where they all dressed up like secret service agents. They had a lot of fun with it.

[MV10]

We have a whole division of the police department that only works the schools. Schools have at least one full-time officer (often a live-in), and many have two or three assigned there, with additional officers who travel around doing who-knows-what. As chrismartin said, there is plenty of crime in schools to keep them busy. However, I couldn't find any discussion of how commonplace this is, and from what I've seen on the news lately (and the fact that it was a major point in La Pierre's speech) leads me to believe it is uncommon.

In another thread, somebody posted that there are about 188,000 public schools in the country. You'd probably need something like 25% more than that to cover for vacation, sick time, and so on. So call it 225,000 for minimal one-man coverage. Although it varies wildly by location, the average LEO makes about $51,000 per year. Again, as any businessman will tell you, the rule of thumb is that an employee costs nearly 2X of their salary in overhead, and from digging around online, it looks like LEOs run close to that at around 80% overhead, so call it $92,000 per year.

Around $21 billion annually for a single-LEO presence in all schools.

As a DINK household, I say go for it -- by taxing parents.

[silencertalk]

I don't actually want real uniformed cops because it really does make for a police state - every school issue becomes a police matter.

I just want, if anything, a non-LEO with a gun - ideally an AR or subgun. But really - this plan does not make sense at face value because schools are not at significant risk for mass shootings - so it is a poor way to spend dollars. I only support this plan as a way to deflate the gun-control argument. What I really support, and it costs nothing, is to remove schools from the gun free zone.

A member of the house or senate does not care if you are a member of JPFO. They only fear crossing the NRA. NRA reports they are gaining 8000 members per day. The more members, the more leverage they have over controlling votes. Join the NRA - the days of them only being fudds is long gone.

http://amanpour.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/1 ... h-the-nra/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/1 ... 24755.html

[silencertalk]

In another thread, somebody posted that there are about 188,000 public schools in the country. You'd probably need something like 25% more than that to cover for vacation, sick time, and so on. So call it 225,000...

"someone posted"

Ha.

http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=84

There are 98,817 public schools in the USA.

Also you don't need full coverage - it can be like air marshalls. We don't need LEOs - just armed school security guards - giving preference to retired LEOs.

But if we hired 100,000 people and paid $35,000 a year (with summers off), and there was overhead - call it $50,000 a year - that is $5 billion - about the amount of money we give away to Israel.

BTW, I saw some anti-gunners want to fund this with a $75 tax per gun.

[Libertarian_Geek]

Fire the useless school system middle management and use the funds to pay for private security. You'd probably end up with a 1.6-1.7:1 ratio of pay for USSMM:guard loaded pay rate.

[MV10]

But really - this plan does not make sense at face value because schools are not at significant risk for mass shootings - so it is a poor way to spend dollars.

I certainly agree with that. I pointed out the other day that more than 50 million school children go to school and come home every day, completely event-free.

This is not an "epidemic," it is merely hysteria.

Organizations like the NRA are basically guilted into parading around on stage to show how much they care by making demands to "do something."

Bad s--t happens. That's life in the real world.

[CThomas]

My cousin is a prison guard at Rikers in NYC (was part of the Tac team for sometime) and within 2 hours of the shooting he called me and said lets start security company in NY to provide armed guards for schools. $50k a year (not cheap to live in metro NY) . He talked about home schooling his 3 kids instead of catholic school. He talked about needing to buy a AR15 for protection (2nd time and still has not, but good luck getting one now). It was amazing to see what is a normally level headed guy get bent out of shape so quickly. Then again I do not have 3 little kids like he does.

So people want to hire retired cops to provide armed security. Is there going to be a physical invloved because most of the retired cops I have seen could not get out of there own way. As we know most can not shoot to save their own life let alone someone elses. I went to a HS that had ~1300 kids in my class and another ~1300 in the 11th grade. The campus was huge and the 9th and 10th grade campus was a few hundred yards across the field with another 2,000 plus kids. Ok how many armed guards do you need to protect a place with that many kids on such a large area. Guard at locked front door. Gunman will just go around the back to one of the other 30 entry doors and break in there. By the time the overweight retired cop gets to where the shooting starts the body count could be huge. Kids do not have the books they need, overcrowded classrooms and they are always asked to bring their own supplies to help but now these feel good types want armed guards.

320 million people in the US and 20 kids dead (sad not doubt) and the country is in a tizzy. Have some prospective people!!

I believe that some type of Hi-cap mag ban will come about but not another AW ban, as we all know it will do jack. If they get the AW ban there will always be another shooting and then they will want to confiscte what is already in circulation. Then there will be another shooting and then they will cry about how they need to ban another class of guns. Then another shooting and another ban and confiscation until we look like England. It may take them another 40, 50 years but just like a terrorist the gun grabbing liberals just have to sit back and wait.

[lilfuzzybuny]

maryland has had "school resource officers" since 2001. and recently have stopped an active shooter. guess the kill count didnt reach typical media needs to warrent printing

[MV10]

I went to a HS that had ~1300 kids in my class and another ~1300 in the 11th grade. The campus was huge and the 9th and 10th grade campus was a few hundred yards across the field with another 2,000 plus kids. Ok how many armed guards do you need to protect a place with that many kids on such a large area.

I was thinking the same thing. My HS had about 4500 students and we usually had four or five police there at any given time -- and that was in the upper-middle-class suburbs with no serious crime. I just looked it up, the school grounds are 53 acres. Of course that includes a football field and so on, but also two two-story buildings, a large gymnasium, two other large buildings, and something like ten smaller buildings (each with about eight classrooms), plus two large cafeterias.

Probably atypical though, so I didn't bring it up previously.

[poikilotrm]

Fire the useless school system middle management and use the funds to pay for private security. You'd probably end up with a 1.6-1.7:1 ratio of pay for USSMM:guard loaded pay rate.

We don't even have to do that. You simply permit vetted teachers and admins carry on campus, and vividly advertise the fact.

Remember back in the late 80s-early 90's when that fuckstick serial killer rapist in Gainesville, FL was preying on college girls? The COP actively recruited women to CCW, advertised the fact, and made sure it was on every local news channel and in the paper with video of women training at the range with cops. Rolling moved two counties over to avoid the possibility of being shot.

If teachers and admins can be armed, and the fact is trumpeted, you now have a condition where scumbags are running a chance of getting shot by going there. Armed assholes hate armed resitance. They prefer gun free zones.

The best part? Nobody has to actually be armed. There just has to be a perception that people are, and the deterrent then exists.

[kusai]

I was hoping for a very stern reply in context with 10,000 laws already in place which has failed to protect plus banning cars, doctors, knives etc etc ending with

MOLON LABE

[Bendersquint]

The NRA was talking about training volunteers - not just paid cops.

I would happily perform my civic duty.

Have you served in the military?

[silencertalk]

The best part? Nobody has to actually be armed. There just has to be a perception that people are, and the deterrent then exists.

I am not sure it is a deterrent for people this mentally ill - all of these guys plan to die during it - so you have to physically stop them.

[poikilotrm]

I am not sure it is a deterrent for people this mentally ill - all of these guys plan to die during it - so you have to physically stop them.

Actually, it is. These people want to die, but they want to kill as many others as they can while they wait for the cops to show up and turn them into "legends".

Lanza went to another school first, but turned away and went to Sandy Hook. Why? Two cops on routine patrol.

Furrow and a host of other fuckwits chose their targets on the basis of lack of resistance. The day care center Furrow went after was actually way down on his list of targets, but it was the first soft target.

Ask yourself why police stations are never robbed. I mean, there's a load of cash, property, and drugs in the evidence rooms, right? So why not rob a police station rather than a corner store with $300 in the till?

Strongest case pro armed school personell? Israel.

[silencertalk]

Did you just make up that he went to another school first?

[doubloon]

He twists a lot of info.