Heroin Deaths surpass Gun Homicides

[johndoe3]

http://dailycaller.com/2016/12/09/heroi ... e-in-2015/

For the first time, heroin deaths surpassed gun homicides, as 2015 figures roll in.

Heroin deaths reached 12,989 in 2015; while gun homicides were 12,979 (gun homicides include murders as well as legal shootings in self-defense and shootings by law enforcement. Unlawful murders are slightly less than 9000 of the 12,979).

Meanwhile, the 2015 stats show that roughly 30,000 people died due to opioid overdoses. Heroin deaths are part of the opioid deaths, but also includes deadly drugs like fentanyl.

My own opinion is that preliminary stats show a 20-25% drop in opioid use in States that have legal marijuana and also some drops in states allowing medical marijuana usage. Plus medical marijuana has shown to be superb for use with Epilepsy and Parkinsons and other tough diseases. I'm all for legalizing medical marijuana in every state and it's up to people in each state if they also want to legalize recreational. If we legalized marijuana and stayed tough on other drugs, as well as misuse of pharmaceutical opioids, we'd have a better country. But I am all for letting each state choose and not a national legalization of medical marijuana (just lowering it to a Schedule 3 drug). IMHO

[TROOPER]

I'm not buying that. The stats are wrong, or are agenda-driven. Marijuana and heroin aren't interchangeable. That said, I'm not arguing against States' rights, or even the libertarian belief that what a person ingests lies within the government's jurisdiction.

As far as heroin v homicides, that is also a nonsensical measurement since heroin is something one does to one's self, where as homicide is necessarily one person performing an action upon another.

Related: why have these stats inter-changed? Is it a continuing downward trend in gun-homicides which has finally intersected with an increase in heroin deaths? Are both stats moving? Or is one relatively level, but the downward movement of the other is what's responsible for the shift?

This is a good find, by the way. The topic and the data, I mean. It's a good find.

[poikilotrm]

Very high quality heroin has been coming in since about 2006. It is harder for the junkies to cut properly. This leads to deaths. Also, heroin is in vogue, leading to more neophyte deaths.

The DEA sure is kicking ass, eh?

I am uncertain as to why I should care. EtOH and opiates and meth and coke claim the lives of losers, not the best and the brightest. This is a self correcting problem. Let them go. They will never be more than a drag on society.

[johndoe3]

I posted the comparison as a data point to use with liberal anti-gun folks, to show that gun violence in America is not the problem but rather deaths from opiates and heroin are a much bigger problem in the USA.

Anyways...Gun homicides are still trending down while gun ownership skyrockets.


And for opiate deaths...from the following NIH testimony to Congress
https://www.drugabuse.gov/about-nida/le ... drug-abuse

Deaths from opioid pain relievers increased five-fold between 1999 and 2010 for women versus 3.6 times among men.

In that NIH testimony and other studies, many abusers got hooked while given opioid presecriptions by MDs who had the best of intentions, to relieve the pain of their patients. Interviews with heroin users reveal that roughly 75% started out with prescription painkillers. Since heroin is a prescription opiate substitute and available at a lower price and available, many heroin users chose that way. The following NIH chart shows how docs greatly increased opiate prescriptions between 1997 and 2013. The blowback from those 219 million prescriptions per year is the 5-fold increase in women dying from opiate overdose and 3.6 times for men (1999 to 2010).


At the link above is another chart for 2010 and onward showing that MDs nationwide started cutting back on opiate prescriptions and cutting off patients. That coincided with a corresponding increase in use of heroin as a substitute when their Doc cut them off. I am not blaming MDs, they genuinely care about their patients; but the data shows that on a macro level, they got many people hooked on opiates and some of them switched to heroin when their prescription opiates got cut off. I wouldn't call them all losers. For example, Rush Limbaugh got hooked on Oxycontin from prescription use initially; Bob Beckel had back surgery and was given an opiate prescription and got hooked, Angela Jolie was given prescription opiates and degraded to heroin use (before her husband got her off with treatment). Those are just 3 accomplished people who got hooked on opiates with initial prescriptions from their Docs.

Last point, medical marijuana is a viable pain reliever and opiates are for pain relief; so medical marijuana is a direct substitute and useful for weaning people using opiates and heroin. The following June 2016 article cites a 2nd new study where medical marijuana lowered opiate(and heroin) usage--a peer-reviewed article from JAMA Internal Medicine journal.
http://drugabuse.com/legalizing-marijua ... overdoses/

As experts scramble to come up with a plan that combats the nation’s dependence on opiates, a new study published last week in the journal JAMA Internal Medicine indicates medical marijuana might be the key.

Over the past two decades, deaths from drug overdoses have become the leading cause of injury death in the United States. In 2011, 55 percent of drug overdose deaths were related to prescription medications; 75 percent of those deaths involved opiate painkillers. However, researchers found that opiate-related deaths decreased by approximately 33 percent in 13 states in the following six years after medical marijuana was legalized.

“The striking implication is that medical marijuana laws, when implemented, may represent a promising approach for stemming runaway rates of nonintentional opioid-analgesic-related deaths,” wrote opiate abuse researchers Dr. Mark S. Brown and Marie J. Hayes in a commentary published alongside the study...

“We found there was about a 25 percent lower rate of prescription painkiller overdose deaths on average after implementation of a medical marijuana law,” lead study author Dr. Marcus Bachhuber said...

Major Pain-Relieving Components of Cannabis

In a 2011 study published in the journal Clinical Pharmacology & Therapeutics, researchers suggest the following medical marijuana components offer pain-relieving properties:

Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol (Delta-9 THC)
Cannabidiol (CBD)
Cannabinol (CBN)
Tetrahydrocannabivarin (THCV)

The 25% reduction is for prescription opiate overdose deaths in medical marijuana states; and the 33% reduction finding includes heroin and black market opiate usage and includes the prescription deaths.

[TROOPER]

I posted the comparison as a data point to use with liberal anti-gun folks, to show that gun violence in America is not the problem but rather deaths from opiates and heroin are a much bigger problem in the USA.

Totally agree with that train-of-thought and your motivation to post.

Anyways...Gun homicides are still trending down while gun ownership skyrockets.

I kind of regret questioning it instead of simply googling it on my own, if only because I was clearly sitting at an internet-accessible computer at the time that I typed my response, and failing to check on my own was a spot of laziness. Anyway, the point of curiosity was whether heroin was spiking abnormally large, or if it had been relatively level for a while, and gun-homicides had simply dipped.

Last point, medical marijuana is a viable pain reliever and opiates are for pain relief; so medical marijuana is a direct substitute and useful for weaning people using opiates and heroin. The following June 2016 article cites a 2nd new study where medical marijuana lowered opiate(and heroin) usage--a peer-reviewed article from JAMA Internal Medicine journal.
http://drugabuse.com/legalizing-marijua ... overdoses/

This part feels wrong. A heroin-junkie will be satisfied with marijuana? I don't question that as a drug - legal or otherwise - the range of effects is likely to overlap some beneficial, or even very beneficial areas. I've never questioned that there are some very real benefits marijuana.

Anyway, the article was a good find. And what's more, the libertarian portion of me opposes government intrusion into personal ingestion insofar as it doesn't encroach on another's rights... which marijuana pretty rarely does (DUI being a notable exception).

Again, the fulcrum of my dissent is that a heroin addict would be satisfied with pot. That just seems unrealistic to the point of fantasies.

That article is a good find, full of useful numerical data.

[Capt. Link.]

Linking drug & gun deaths is a win win for the communist community.Its a easy sell to the ignorant masses and creates a false good feeling among them.

There is a direct connection between opiate death and the availability of legal cannabis.Every study has indicated that persons who use narcotic drugs in combination with cannabis require less of the narcotic drug.Any reduction of opiates is a major victory for these individuals and lessens the possibility of overdose.The legal access to cannabis helps as stigmata is a barrier to many who would benefit. If your doctor can treat you using cannabis the likelihood of you becoming addicted to narcotics and death are negated.

After 3000 plus years of written medical cannabis use its time for adult discussion in this country.Its proven to treat various ailments including pain,depression,and brain trauma. How many of our veterans would be alive if the federal prohibition of this did not exist.Do you know that our own government holds a patent on the neuroprotective quality's of cannabis (6630507) talk about hypocrisy.Studies continue on diabetes and cancer plus a wide host of other human maladies.

If anyone thinks that people make a choice to use a addictive drug to the point of ruin think again.Doctors are not entirely to blame either.Our own government has lied to us about drugs in general and has profited greatly by the prohibition.

-CL

[johndoe3]

It's worth connecting the dots in my previous post above.

In a period when overall opiate deaths soared in the USA,--up 5 times for women and 3.6 times for men--in those medical marijuana states in the JAMA Internal Medicine study, opiate deaths dropped by an astounding 33%. Therefore, one has to conclude that ALL of the soaring opiate deaths are in States without legal medical marijuana.

That's a remarkable statistic and a real benefit for society in states with medical marijuana programs--and not a statistic by people pushing an agenda.

Similarly, there is an added societal benefit from 100's of thousands of lives not ruined by arrests for use of a plant, and as shown in Colorado, 10's of millions of dollars saved that would have been spent in the criminal justice system.

Also, given the size of the opiate problem, there are likely people who frequent Silencertalk who are caught up in the opiate addiction problem (or a close family member). Most likely the person started with prescriptions for back pain or other pains. Here is an alternative way out.

[Capt. Link.]

It's worth connecting the dots in my previous post above.

In a period when overall opiate deaths soared in the USA,--5 times for women and 3.6 times for men--in those medical marijuana states in the JAMA Internal Medicine study, opiate deaths dropped by an astounding 33%. Therefore, one has to conclude that ALL of the soaring opiate deaths are in States without legal medical marijuana.

That's a remarkable statistic and a real benefit for society in states with medical marijuana programs--and not a statistic by people pushing an agenda.

Similarly, there is an added societal benefit from 100's of thousands of lives not ruined by arrests for use of a plant, and as shown in Colorado, 10's of millions of dollars saved that would have been spent in the criminal justice system.

I know about JAMA & other reports and slowly physicians are taking it to heart.I hope that the Congress Senate BATFE the VA and insurance groups will get on-board with responsible use.I have no issue throwing the book at anyone who drives impaired or risks someone life no matter what is used.

I'll feel dirty saying this but California has treated the medical issue initially better than lets say Maryland ,now I said two dirty words. My point being a over regulated system invites black market and scammers.I also don't care much for using the names of people on a state regulated system to disallow gun ownership or for any other use a doctors prescription should suffice or better yet over the counter without lists. Many people will not follow a legal route if they must give up their rights as a citizen just because they are sick.Way too many veterans now must choose to receive VA care or treat PTSD.I hope the new administration will assist those in need without penalty.

I have another horse in this race Rehab and education. I became very aware of the poor quality when my dearest friend passed away while waiting for rehab for the second time.There is little difference between your buddy who drinks himself to ruin or dies from a overdose.Its also pretty tough see a loved one starve to death because of the stigmata associated with use even while on chemo.I educated myself after these events became part of my life. I would like to see any cannabis tax revenue put into quality rehab and truthful education.People with addiction issues are sick and should be treated that way.Truthful education plays a major role as well.The credibility of the powers that be ride on this! I can give our government a pass on this up to the 1972 Shafer report.After that time every school age kid knew it was being lied to so why listen.

Its great to vent a little about something that has destroyed so many lives.The future looks bright if we don't screw it up.The reading on this subject is fascinating and the willingness of some people to cling to outdated rhetoric is truly amusing. Reefer Madness indeed the question is who is mad under the light of day.

-CL

[johndoe3]

I know about JAMA & other reports and slowly physicians are taking it to heart.I hope that the Congress Senate BATFE the VA and insurance groups will get on-board with responsible use.I have no issue throwing the book at anyone who drives impaired or risks someone life no matter what is used.

If marijuana is moved from a Schedule 1 drug to a Schedule 3 drug by the feds, then the DEA can still go after marijuana trafficking and use in non-legal States; and more importantly, the ATF 4473 form when buying a gun, can remove the marijuana question. It will also enable the VA to legally try and use medical marijuana for treatment of PTSD, during cancer treatment and for other ailments.

It's as simple as the AG nominee, Jeff Sessions, directing it to be made a Schedule 3 federal drug, once he is confirmed for office.

No one should doubt that the recent change to the 4473 (marijuana question and warning) was a result of deliberate Obama administration to enact backdoor gun-control in any way possible. Obama had directed his staff more than a year ago, to explore any possible means through regulations and executive orders to institute gun control. Fortunately, the nightmare of the Obama years is ending soon.

[0101silent]

--

[Capt. Link.]

Very few doctors ever reach the point of medical malpractice.A bigger problem is under prescribing to the point where people self medicate without a doctor and fear of prosecution if they do seek help.Laws should not influence the way a doctor practices if its in the best interest of the patient.Legal patients should not suffer because of misuse by others.I look at it this way if and when cannabis and other schedule 1 drugs become legal the death rate will drop as doctors will have additional tools at their disposal.

The main point of this thread is options are available and have proven to save lives where they are legal.The current system is flawed and needs to be changed in the best interest of the country and its human resources.

-CL

[TROOPER]

So maybe it's easier for me to lecture from the side-lines of addiction, but locking up addicts "for their own good" is a testament to government run amok.

As far as doctors prescribing painkillers which end up being addictive... that's the way it is. A patient has the ability to choose not to accept this. This isn't meant to be a cold-hearted statement, but I have assumed -- and continue to assume -- that the preponderance of patients opt for the painkiller since the overall benefits and risks outweigh the very real discomfort of whatever malady they are afflicted with.

How about a compromise? A doctor offers the addictive painkiller with a rehearsed spiel about just how addictive it is. Would this satisfy? No, it wouldn't, because virtually no patient has the life-experience to draw on to truly grasp how overwhelmingly powerful an opiate addiction can be. The warning would slip in their ear and out the other, while the joy-buzzer of constant pain pushes them towards brushing off any warning.

I don't fault them for this, by the way, since so few of us, and even then it is only by luck, have the mental toughness to beat an honest-to-God addiction on our own without help.

It sucks that I don't have anything more constructive to add since I've read that "complaining without offering a solution is called whining", and I just don't have a solution.