Highest homicides in the world

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johndoe3
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Highest homicides in the world

Post by johndoe3 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:38 pm

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 85656.html

Brazil set a new record in 2017 with homicides hitting 63,880 (population 195 million), the highest for any country in the world.

Comment: no wonder there is a political movement in Brazil to enact something like the USA 2nd amendment in Brazil. Now, the people are generally unarmed.

...meanwhile in the Socialist paradise of Venezuela under comrade Maduro...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Venezuela

The OVV calculated the Venezuela homicide rate in 2015 as ~90 per 100,000 (population 28.4 million), and total homicides of 27,878.
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Re: Highest homicides in the world

Post by DKDravis » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:44 am

What makes anyone think that arming more brazilians will LOWER the homicide rate ?

Logic dictates that the rate will go up, at least for a period.

Brazil has the same problem as a lot of countries with high economic growth, but no real control of, or distribution of wealth.

The difference between rich (or fairly rich, middle class) and poor is extreme, Brazil has a large extremely poor population, especially in the suburbs of the larger cities (Favelas) Those in power in Brazil tries to handle the rampant crime in these areas like fighting a dirty war, they simply go in and kill..

This will not be solved by arming ordinary, middle class citizens. The guns that they would buy would mostly never be used, left in unsafe places, and end up in the wrong hands.

Maduros regime in Venezuela has NOTHING to do with "Socialism" -- those are just words used to justify his insane messing up of the countrys economy.
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Re: Highest homicides in the world

Post by doubloon » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:52 am

Firearms would appear to account for 5% of Brazilian suicide attempts in this study, poison by medical and non-medical drugs accounted for 70%. Sharp and pointy things accounted for 8%. I'm thinking just like here poisons and sharp pointy things are cheaper and easier to come by than firearms.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5025588/

Methods used in suicide attemptsa, Brazil, 1998–2014
% total Means
38, 0 Poisoning by non-medical drugs (X65 - X69)
32, 4 Poisoning by medical drugs (X60 - X64)
8, 3 Cutting/piercing with objects (X78 + X79)
5, 0 Firearms (X72 – X74) 7 716

Source: SIH/DATASUS
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Re: Highest homicides in the world

Post by johndoe3 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:26 pm

Maduros regime in Venezuela has NOTHING to do with "Socialism" -- those are just words used to justify his insane messing up of the countrys economy.
DKDravis, your opinions are usually considered and insightful; however, here you've gone way off into pixie-dust territory. :wink:

Definition of Socialism:
Socialism: a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

(in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of Communism.
Venezuela under Chavez and Maduro nationalized the oil industry, then steadily proceeded to take over most parts of the economy. First they dictated retail prices with no consideration of costs, causing whole swaths of businesses to go shut down after government dictated losses. Then the government took over many/most of these businesses.

People of all political viewpoints throughout the world clearly see Venezuela as a textbook Socialist system--heading towards North Korean type rule. Even though Venezuela has the highest oil reserves in the world, they are failing because of Socialist governance and spending far more than they take in. Socialism always fails everywhere when they run out of other people's money to spend.

DKDravis, no one else will buy into your weak defense of socialism by claiming Venezuela is not socialist (Chavez and Maduro proudly proclaimed their socialism).
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Re: Highest homicides in the world

Post by DKDravis » Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:35 am

First of all "Johndoe3"

How did you come about YOUR definition of "Socialism" -and is it correct? -- That very much depends on how "Socialism" is carried out as real world politics. In my country "the Social Democrats party" took this little country from a rather poor agricultural right wing feudal kingdom, to an extremely wealthy nation, they did it by cooperating with capitalism, not by throwing it out and nationalizing everything .. but they are still "Socialists" 8) They still believe in distributing some of the wealth that society as a whole produces.

Second: I'm in NO way "Defending Socialism" by your definition of "Socialism" -- I'm not some empty headed left wing ideologist ..

What I'm saying is that Maduro is using an ideology to mess up his country, most probably through sheer ignorance, greed and serving his own interests - Maybe Maduro and his cronies really believe that they are following a "Socialist ideology" - if so, they are doing it spectacularly wrong :lol:
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Re: Highest homicides in the world

Post by TROOPER » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:41 am

DKDravis wrote:Maduros regime in Venezuela has NOTHING to do with "Socialism" -- those are just words used to justify his insane messing up of the countrys economy.
What is your definition of "socialism"?
so·cial·ism
ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/Submit
noun
a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
That's Venezuela. That's as textbook of an example of socialism as you can find in this world today.

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Re: Highest homicides in the world

Post by DKDravis » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:50 am

I try not to "define" "socialism" as a totalitarian ideology. That has nothing to do with the reality of the countries where the best of "socialism" and "capitalism" has produced a nation with some of the lowest homicide and crime rates, along with widespread equality and wealth. We can still own guns, AND we have no "tax" on "Suppressors" -- And we are allowed to run AP Moller Maersk and buy stocks in that company - or Novo Nordic .. I can run a small business.. and my daughter goes to college almost for free --

What I see as "good" i "Socialism" is the "regulation" part -- Capitalism needs regulation, the 2008 economy crisis that crippled world economy for years, started in the US, because of too little regulation of capitalist greed .. Your own small home-owners and the taxpayers of Europe paid that bill ... The taxpayers of Denmark had to bail out our largest banks - that little stunt cost every single tax-payer in both the US and Denmark $500 a year for more than 4 years -- Funnily enough the "Socialist state of Denmark" was only very mildly hit by the crisis, a lot less than the US. Guess who made a fortune on the whole sub-prime scandal -- initials: D.T. :mrgreen:

The truth of "Socialism" is most certainly NOT the views of Trish Regan of FOX news -- What she peddles on FIX News is blatant lies about my country-- comparing Denmark to Venezuela is about the most idiotic load of propagandist hogwash I've ever seen -- No wonder "Fake News" is such a big thing ..

If that is where americans get their "truth" about "Socialism" you really should open your eyes and go see for yourself.. If you find a beggar on the streets of Copenhagen, I'll personally give the poor bugger a nice crisp 1000 kr. bill if the person is actually Danish, and not Romanian or Hungarian... Long live the open borders of the EU .. :lol:

Oh -- BTW -- The current government of Denmark is "Conservative" and "liberal" -- and has been for many years --
Guess the "well informed" FOX woman conveniently "forgot " that little point ..
As my old school teacer used to quote: Quante Tenebris - What a lack of illumination --
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Re: Highest homicides in the world

Post by fishman » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:49 am

I try not to "define" "socialism" as a totalitarian ideology.
I don't think you get to decide the definition. You can't enter a debate with your own definitions for things.
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Re: Highest homicides in the world

Post by doubloon » Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:36 pm

I think the debating the definition of socialism is pointless when even those regimes we consider to be the most "socialist" do not actually represent a 100% Marxist ideal of the definition.

Pretty much every "free" society I can think of exhibits to some degree the earmarks of democratic socialism ... the slippery on the rock toward communism.
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Re: Highest homicides in the world

Post by DKDravis » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:38 am

I don't think you get to decide the definition. You can't enter a debate with your own definitions for things.
Why the h... not? :shock:

Who gets to decide which "definition" is the correct one? -- Please notice the "" around the word "Definition" :wink:

@dubloon : I'm afraid you may be right to some extent: the further "left" a society gets, the less important personal freedom is valued over "the common good" this is a slippery slope towards a totalitarian or tyrannical rule - But when you reach a certain state of lack of freedom the choice of words to describe or define it becomes immaterial- just like the road to get there.

The rulers of Venezuela describes and defines their rule as "Socialist" because that was the way they justified their totalitarian regime - Some other place might take an insidious right wing approach, like Turkey -- The end result is the same -- a totalitarian regime, that only benefits those in power, not the people or the nation as such.

So the goal of any thinking person is to fight against the slippery slope of reduced personal freedom and responsability -- The more extreme leftwingers see this as a road towards fascism - they simply can not see that the most important point of democracy is the freedom to choose
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Re: Highest homicides in the world

Post by TROOPER » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:51 am

Where to even start here?

The housing bubble in the US wasn't a result of 'greed', it was a result of the liberal belief that poverty can be fought with legislation. Capitalism wasn't the cause - ignoring capitalism caused it. Hamstringing capitalism caused it. Using legislation in lieu of capitalism caused it.

A political belief emerged that said that people have a 'right' to a house, even if they didn't have the means for home-ownership. That political ideology maintained that poor people were oppressed "by-the-system", and that their "oppression" could be overcome with regulation. Therefore, private-sector banks were told to offer sub-prime loans, and that the loans would be backed by the government via Fannie and Freddie. This is zero default risk, because defaults would be covered.

If someone sent you to a casino and told you to make bad bets with unfavorable odds, and that any losses would be covered by them... BUT... you could keep whatever you won, would you do it?

The lending institutions did... we all would. More so, banks that didn't want to give out bad loans were targeted with 'investigations into unfair housing practices' and insinuations of racism.

Capitalistic principles dictate the terms of a loan because the amount of risk associated with the loan is monetized and included in the loan itself via an increasing APR. This isn't different than ordinary investing: the more risky the investment, the more it has to return or it won't get investors.

I sold houses for about a year during this time for one particular builder. I wasn't a realtor, i was the guy sitting in the model home. I can think of three specific instances when individual bought homes that should not have. Crappy credit scores, inappropriate income sources (unreliable jobs / low-paying jobs), too much debt, etc. Two of the three walked away from their homes in the most literal sense; they just left one day. The loan-holding banks had no recourse, because the only two options that are really available are to threaten the credit-score of the debtor -- and all three had very poor credit scores coming in -- or to threaten civil action, except that all three were "judgement-proof". The only other option is to default the loan, seize the home, and try to sell it.

Once the government stopped backing losses -- which had to happen eventually -- the banks had to try and extract their money from the properties themselves, by selling 100 houses when there were only 60 buyers (numbers made up for illustrative purposes). Now capitalistic forces came back to work, and in order to get the properties sold, they were sold for less and less money.

Worse, the mortgage-backed securities -- which were considered infallible since they were backed by the government -- went into the securities market, and became part of any number of mutual funds and 401(k)s and retirement funds. That's an international market, so other countries bought these BS securities, and instead of getting a string-of-future-payments, they got nothing.

Government influence in the market caused this.
Capitalism didn't cause this, because capitalistically, those loans either wouldn't have been made at all, OR, they'd have been priced appropriately (prohibitively high APR), AND/OR, no lending institution would've carried that many sub-prime loans on their books because if all defaulted at once -- which happened a lot -- the bank wouldn't have had its assets so over-extended into real estate.

The banks got blamed for "going into the casino and gambling on bad bets", but the government officials who did their best to advance that narrative completely ignored why the banks did that.... as did the RETARDED move, "The Big Short". That movie had all this propaganda about how the banks were building this colossal, fiscal house-of-cards, but completely ignored WHY the banks were doing this: because the government was giving out both the carrot (we'll cover your losses!) and the stick (and if you don't give out these loans, you'll be investigated for racism!)

There are strong comparisons to be made between the housing bubble fiasco and Obamacare:

Government tells lenders/insurers to ignore probability tables in giving out loans/insurance... do it at a loss.... we'll cover the losses.

Disregarding the ethics or overreach or legality... it simply isn't sustainable. The losses for healthcare -- like the losses with mortgage defaults -- will be greater than the government can cover.

At least the health insurers themselves are likely to be destroyed as a result, whereas the banks took a minor amount of fiscal grief relative to the amount caused, and were saved by a bail-out. The health insurers won't be savable. Also working in our favor is that the health-insurance companies won't be able to leak this disaster out into Wall Street in the same way as the mortgage-backed-securities.

There is also an allegory here to socialism: when the government tells home-loan-lenders and insurance companies to "operate-at-a-loss-and-we'll-cover-those-losses".... this isn't different than when Venezuela tells private retail stores or factories to operate at a loss... and we'll cover your losses. Except that the government ran out of money, but didn't run out of power... so they still enforce the operating parameters, but they don't cover the losses. End-result: can't operate at a profit, can't cover expenses.... nothing happens. Food production grinds to a halt, sales grind to a halt, there's actual starvation in a country with a year-round growing season and some of the richest oil reserves on the planet.

This is a long-ass post. Sorry about that.

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Re: Highest homicides in the world

Post by TROOPER » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:19 am

Socialism according to its definition probably can't exist in today's world. Realistically, only communism can.

In socialism, the means-of-production and wealth of the country is held by society; but we don't have any areas on earth that are run by society... but rather by government.

Communism is where the means-of-production and wealth of the country is held by the government.

The belief is that "democratic socialism" is a compromise of the two in that the central government owns and controls... but that the central government reflects the will and wishes of the people. In which case, even though 'society' wasn't in the meeting to determine how the means-of-production were going to be used, the the elected representatives of the people would be.

Two major issues manifest:
1 - When did society every agree on things? In which case, how would even a "perfect representative" of the people act?
2 - If the government runs everything, and the people elect the representatives, then whenever someone runs for office, they make the same promises: "Vote for me and I will raise wages and lower prices".... or some variation of that which does the same thing. No one will ever elect someone who vows to raise prices or lower wages... even if that is what it takes for businesses to remain fiscally functional.

If the country in question is a Republic as opposed to a 100% democracy or representative democracy, then the government will not be constrained by either a higher law -- the Constitution -- or by market forces such as capitalism.

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Re: Highest homicides in the world

Post by a_canadian » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:36 pm

Here's a rebuttal of this inflammatory Fox News spokesmodel's nonsense from a bearded guy in Denmark:
https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=uZ5YI_1534429092

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Re: Highest homicides in the world

Post by TROOPER » Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:33 pm

Not interested. Half of a person's life is spent paying taxes.

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