Concealed Carry. Why bother?

Random gun talk.

Moderators: mpallett, bakerjw

User avatar
YugoRPK
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 6289
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:56 am
Location: South Carolina

Concealed Carry. Why bother?

Post by YugoRPK » Mon May 04, 2015 2:21 pm

Ive always kind of wondered about concealed carry. I'm not talking about why bother carrying a gun. Its the concealed aspect that I wonder about. I don't open carry because quite frankly I find it obnoxious but when I do carry I carry a full size 10mm glock with maybe a T shirt over the to if its the summer time. I look like I'm carrying a gun. I know quite a few people who are concerned that they are "patterning" and who use very small concealed carry specific guns so no one can tell they are carrying a handgun. Why? I just ask because I was in a conversation with my boss who went so far as to buy one of those pocket holsters to break up the outline of the Karr 9mm he carries around so that no one could tell he was carrying. I don't get it.
Putting the laughter in manslaughter

User avatar
chrismartin
Silencertalk Goon Squad
Posts: 4226
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:18 pm
Location: Tidewater, VA

Re: Concealed Carry. Why bother?

Post by chrismartin » Mon May 04, 2015 2:58 pm

Very few people notice anything around them.

My wife it one of those people. There was a dude open carrying a large frame revolver the other day. He was walking right in front of our car and she didn't notice at all. I have several stories like that with her. Three times in a pet store (Lots of open carrying in pet stores around here for some reason). I can only recall seeing one CCW that was accidentally exposed (guy was loading up his trunk and his shirt pulled up too far).

Anyway, I don't sweat it at all either. I've only been "called out" once and it was by another gun guy at a furniture store that just wanted to know what I was carrying. I wasn't even carrying, I just didn't take the holster off after the competition I attended. The bottom of the holster could be seen at the bottom of my shirt.

Typically I carry a Glock 19 or a 1911. I have a Kahr PM9 for pocket carry when I don't want to bother with a belt holster.

User avatar
T-Rex
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1864
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:38 pm
Location: CT - The AntiConstitution State

Re: Concealed Carry. Why bother?

Post by T-Rex » Mon May 04, 2015 3:46 pm

I OC whenever possible. Do people notice it, yes, and that's my point. Stay the F* away from me and mine.
I CC whenever I go places posting a Image. Not schools and such, but theaters and business' which do not like guns. I still have a right to protect myself. If they ask me to leave, I will do so w/o confrontation.

You are right that ppl have no situational awareness. I, however, am not one of those individuals. At times, my recognition of my surroundings pisses-off my wife. "Babe, did you see that?", I'll say. She just looks at me like "who cares". I have trained myself to strap my kids in their car seats w/o tucking my torso inside of the vehicle. My right forearm is usually resting on the pistol's frame or my thumb is inside of my belt, just behind the holster.

People always try to bring up the "But what if someone tries to take your gun?" crap. OK, what if they tried to take your child, while you're holding it, and not carrying a gun? You're damn right you're going to fight for it. Fortunately, I have extensive hand-to-hand training and have trained for the exact instance someone wants to do something stupid. Another reason why I use a Serpa CQC retention holster. If you dont know the button is there, that pistol is not coming out.

If someone is going to the extent of hitting you w/ a baseball bat to take your gun, they're clearly disturbed. Who's to say they wouldn't attack you even if you weren't carrying??

I've had, both, good and not great interactions w/ other citizens, and police, while OC'n. If you can't, simply, deal with people, you probably shouldn't be carrying in the first place.
Completed Builds www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79895
Burst Calculator www.engineersedge.com/calculators/pipe_bust_calc.htm
Silencer Porn www.instagram.com/explore/tags/silencerporn/

DoctorSolo
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 329
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 5:28 pm
Location: Colorado Springs

Re: Concealed Carry. Why bother?

Post by DoctorSolo » Mon May 04, 2015 5:42 pm

Personally, I don't like people knowing I have a gun. Then there's the conversation piece aspect. Inevitably someone will want to talk to you about guns politics or whatever. I don't like talking to people. This is why I avoid wearing shirts with clever sayings or funny pictures. I don't want to talk to you.

Strut away though, I certainly don't have a problem with those who choose to display their weapons.

User avatar
Gyrkin
Member
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:48 pm
Location: Wyoming

Re: Concealed Carry. Why bother?

Post by Gyrkin » Mon May 04, 2015 8:44 pm

YugoRPK wrote:but when I do carry I carry a full size 10mm glock with maybe a T shirt over the to if its the summer time. I look like I'm carrying a gun.
I call that "discrete carry" and I carry that way often. If someone is at all observant they will know I'm carrying, but as we all know most people don't notice even obvious things.

ThaDoubleJ
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 181
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:45 pm
Location: Too close to Denver

Re: Concealed Carry. Why bother?

Post by ThaDoubleJ » Mon May 04, 2015 9:13 pm

I prefer CC, because frankly I prefer to be invisible. It's impossible due to my size and permanently affixed scowl, but the less people know about me, the better as far as I'm concerned.
Proper grammar is awesome.

User avatar
doubloon
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 11901
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 1:02 am
Location: Houston-ish

Re: Concealed Carry. Why bother?

Post by doubloon » Mon May 04, 2015 9:39 pm

YugoRPK wrote:... full size 10mm glock with maybe a T shirt over ...
Usually a P229 under a shirt.

You can easily see it if you want to but most people are completely oblivious even when the barrel peeks out from under the shirt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDtd2jNIwAU MUSAFAR!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI This is Water DavidW
Complete Form 1s http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895

sillycon
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 242
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:34 pm
Location: FL

Re: Concealed Carry. Why bother?

Post by sillycon » Tue May 05, 2015 6:36 pm

DoctorSolo wrote:Personally, I don't like people knowing I have a gun. Then there's the conversation piece aspect. Inevitably someone will want to talk to you about guns politics or whatever. I don't like talking to people. This is why I avoid wearing shirts with clever sayings or funny pictures. I don't want to talk to you.

Strut away though, I certainly don't have a problem with those who choose to display their weapons.
My thoughts exactly.

User avatar
TROOPER
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 7440
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:24 pm
Location: Augusta, Georgia

Re: Concealed Carry. Why bother?

Post by TROOPER » Wed May 06, 2015 11:42 pm

doubloon wrote:
YugoRPK wrote:... full size 10mm glock with maybe a T shirt over ...
Usually a P229 under a shirt.

You can easily see it if you want to but most people are completely oblivious even when the barrel peeks out from under the shirt.
I don't get this, Doubloon... the barrel peeks out? Do you IWB carry upside down? Or perhaps a shirt, a belt, and nothing else?

I just don't get the "barrel peeking out" part. Seems like the grip would peek if anything.

KiA
Member
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:02 pm

Re: Concealed Carry. Why bother?

Post by KiA » Thu May 07, 2015 12:45 am

i recall some events from news and other articles that i've read:
  • CCer tackled and disarmed in walmart
  • CCer assaulted
  • CCer in gun-friendly business is witnessed by another client that calls it in. CC permit is denied on renewal because of the incident. CCer takes the issue to court.
  • 100s of local & state police + swat deployed because someone phoned in a man with a weapon (it ended up being an umbrella)
  • could be targeted by gangs for disarming and theft of firearm
sounds like you're saying that you're not a nudist (OC) but ok with frequent panty slips (half ass concealment)? maybe you're a gun flasher?

User avatar
doubloon
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 11901
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 1:02 am
Location: Houston-ish

Re: Concealed Carry. Why bother?

Post by doubloon » Thu May 07, 2015 7:24 am

TROOPER wrote:...
I don't get this, Doubloon... the barrel peeks out? ...
Sometimes OWB under a coat that's long enough but IWB doesn't matter that much in some cases and yes it would be the grip for IWB.

There are moments when it is not possible to keep the weapon entirely hidden from view 100% of the time. I've seen it happen to a few people and I'm sure it's happened to me even though I can't see it on myself.

IWB or OWB under a shirt, drop something that finds it's way under your car in the parking lot or under a shelf in a store. Where you gonna go to disarm yourself and stow your gun to come back and crouch or crawl on the ground to retrieve the object?

Reach for something on a high enough shelf at some box store, doesn't matter with what hand or whether it's IWB/OWB because I've seen it happen both ways at the hardware store. This would be one I'm almost certain has happened to me even though I don't carry a mirror to watch myself.

Ride an escalator at the mall or walk up an open flight of stairs with pedestrians below who can see up a loose fitting shirt or coat and catch a glimpse of an IWB/OWB weapon. Seen it, specifically at those multi-floor places with Plexiglas walled zigzag escalators. Another one I'm sure has happened to me but without somebody holding a mirror below me I can't be sure.

It happens frequently enough that Texas passed a bill to clarify penal code in 2013 to protect CHLs against charges of "failure to conceal".

@KIA - The attacker, not the carrier, at WalMart was arrested. In fact, in almost every case you listed the victim (alleged weapon carrier) was not in the wrong. I'm not familiar with the revoked permit case, probably depends on in what state and maybe the number of incidents. Replace "CC" and "firearm" with any number of mundane objects and there are many similar stories where some alarmist do-gooder or some crack head has reported or attacked a law abiding citizen. This type of activity is not limited to just firearms even in your examples. Since we now know each other well enough to assign pet names, maybe you're a judgmental, narrow minded, anti-gun douche bag who is OK with criminally punishing law abiding citizens for minor slips in protocol?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDtd2jNIwAU MUSAFAR!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI This is Water DavidW
Complete Form 1s http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895

User avatar
ick
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 4617
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:17 pm
Location: Johnstown, PA

Re: Concealed Carry. Why bother?

Post by ick » Thu May 07, 2015 9:47 am

Cooler temperatures prevail most of the year, and that means I almost always have on a hip-length coat or jacket. That makes CCW almost too easy. You can get too comfortable and sloppy if you are not cognizant when the weather changes.

When summer hits I find that quite often my hand on the holster side has to hold my suit coat or blazer in place... to prevent an accidental display of said sidearm.

Never had someone "see" the sidearm accidentally and say something. Yet.

Eventually it is going to happen. I don't think it is possible to run 100% concealed and never make a "mistake" or print in a shirt.

An elderly woman I know fell in a parking lot about 50 feet from me. I disarmed before exiting the vehicle because I knew there would be a lot of bending over to help her up and collect everything. I suppose you cant always expect that luxury where you can anticipate a possible accidental display.
-----
Ick

User avatar
YugoRPK
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 6289
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:56 am
Location: South Carolina

Re: Concealed Carry. Why bother?

Post by YugoRPK » Thu May 07, 2015 10:59 am

KiA wrote:i recall some events from news and other articles that i've read:
  • CCer tackled and disarmed in walmart
  • CCer assaulted
  • CCer in gun-friendly business is witnessed by another client that calls it in. CC permit is denied on renewal because of the incident. CCer takes the issue to court.
  • 100s of local & state police + swat deployed because someone phoned in a man with a weapon (it ended up being an umbrella)
  • could be targeted by gangs for disarming and theft of firearm
sounds like you're saying that you're not a nudist (OC) but ok with frequent panty slips (half ass concealment)? maybe you're a gun flasher?
More that I live in an area that no one gives it a second glance if they see someone carrying a gun either concealed or open. Pretty common occurrence. Don't much see the need
to hide it.
Putting the laughter in manslaughter

User avatar
TROOPER
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 7440
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:24 pm
Location: Augusta, Georgia

Re: Concealed Carry. Why bother?

Post by TROOPER » Thu May 07, 2015 3:33 pm

Fair enough. Your explanation passes the smell test. Though I feel compelled to point out that I am disappointed with the reality of the situation. I had hoped that you were IWB upside down.... that was good for a chuckle. I had tentatively hoped that you were IWB with a shirt, a belt, and nothing else beneath that... which was good for a stiffy.

Kidding.


... maybe.

User avatar
doubloon
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 11901
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 1:02 am
Location: Houston-ish

Re: Concealed Carry. Why bother?

Post by doubloon » Thu May 07, 2015 8:07 pm

Good on you Ick! Evidence of scholar clearly visible for all to see in your posts and now a self proclamation of contemporary gentlemanly behavior. Thanks for raising the average on the board that some of us drag down from time to time.

I think your point about luxury mixed with the complacency of having carried through the winter with and oversize coat is more the recipe for the occasional scrabbling on the ground while concealed. I can't say I've seen that one myself but it seems plausible.

@Troop

My mind twisted on the upside down IWB until the train skipped the track, I still pause trying to create a mental picture of what that would look like for myself and just when I think I have it THIS pops into my head and the whole thing is lost.

However, I do have some short shorts and a long tailed shirt I think I'll wear to walk the dogs sometime ... no way in hell anyone would expect a gun under there. More likely they will avert their eyes and maybe even cross the street which is not an entirely undesirable proposition.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDtd2jNIwAU MUSAFAR!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI This is Water DavidW
Complete Form 1s http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895

User avatar
ick
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 4617
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:17 pm
Location: Johnstown, PA

Re: Concealed Carry. Why bother?

Post by ick » Fri May 08, 2015 11:49 am

The makeup is a nice touch doubloon, but I think a dark shirt would work better. Your Navy model 1851 black powder pistol is going to show through the white material.

http://stylerumor.com/wp-content/upload ... ion-11.jpg

By the way, nice hat trooper.
-----
Ick

User avatar
doubloon
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 11901
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 1:02 am
Location: Houston-ish

Re: Concealed Carry. Why bother?

Post by doubloon » Fri May 08, 2015 6:59 pm

ick wrote:... Your Navy model 1851 ...
That part stings.

:mrgreen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDtd2jNIwAU MUSAFAR!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI This is Water DavidW
Complete Form 1s http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895

User avatar
TROOPER
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 7440
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:24 pm
Location: Augusta, Georgia

Re: Concealed Carry. Why bother?

Post by TROOPER » Sat May 09, 2015 11:03 am

ick wrote:The makeup is a nice touch doubloon, but I think a dark shirt would work better. Your Navy model 1851 black powder pistol is going to show through the white material.

http://stylerumor.com/wp-content/upload ... ion-11.jpg

By the way, nice hat trooper.
Image

Meh. I've got better.

----- ETA --------
... what passes for 'fashion' these days is nothing more than a fabric abortion.

usmcvet0331
Member
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:12 pm
Location: Barre, VT

Re: Concealed Carry. Why bother?

Post by usmcvet0331 » Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:47 am

DoctorSolo wrote:Personally, I don't like people knowing I have a gun. Then there's the conversation piece aspect. Inevitably someone will want to talk to you about guns politics or whatever. I don't like talking to people. This is why I avoid wearing shirts with clever sayings or funny pictures. I don't want to talk to you.

Strut away though, I certainly don't have a problem with those who choose to display their weapons.
I agree. I don't want people to know I'm carrying until I decide I need to use my gun. The element of surprise should not be under estimated. The bad guy should know when it is too late to do anything.

User avatar
JeffWard
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 230
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 1:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Concealed Carry. Why bother?

Post by JeffWard » Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:20 am

In many states, your concealed firearm MUST be fully concealed. Obvious "printing" can be construed/stretched my an ambitious Assistant DA to be brandishing (showing a weapon in a threatening manner), and accidentally exposing a concealed weapon can be ruled the same.

Florida rewrote that law so that accidental exposure is not brandishing.

I agree that most people are oblivious to their surroundings. I've suggested the "steel tape test" to new carriers, where you hook a 25" steel tape measure to your belt, cover it loosely with a t-shirt, and walk all over town, in and out of stores. 99% of people will never notice. They won't notice a gun either.

I'm an advocate for the CHOICE of open carry, but personally I prefer to carry well concealed. My primary carry is a M&P Shield in a hybrid IWB holster. I open carry hunting (legal), and I would open carry on my own property given the option (comfort), but out in public, I'd prefer that the only time the public sees my weapon is after it's already pointed right in their face should they deserve it. And at that point... they likely will never see it... since their brain stem won't work that fast.

JW

usmcvet0331
Member
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:12 pm
Location: Barre, VT

Re: Concealed Carry. Why bother?

Post by usmcvet0331 » Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:29 pm

JeffWard wrote: I'm an advocate for the CHOICE of open carry, but personally I prefer to carry well concealed. My primary carry is a M&P Shield in a hybrid IWB holster. I open carry hunting (legal), and I would open carry on my own property given the option (comfort), but out in public, I'd prefer that the only time the public sees my weapon is after it's already pointed right in their face should they deserve it. And at that point... they likely will never see it... since their brain stem won't work that fast.

JW
Exactly.

User avatar
doubloon
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 11901
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 1:02 am
Location: Houston-ish

Re: Concealed Carry. Why bother?

Post by doubloon » Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:10 pm

I believe we have successfully deviated from the original intent of the thread.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDtd2jNIwAU MUSAFAR!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI This is Water DavidW
Complete Form 1s http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895

User avatar
Maser
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1101
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:45 pm
Location: Mysterious Cities of Gold
Contact:

Re: Concealed Carry. Why bother?

Post by Maser » Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:37 am

I have no desire to OC. CC works just fine for me. 8)
My intelligence is like a suppressed rimfire pistol. You may not be able to hear it, but it certainly always hits its mark.

User avatar
YugoRPK
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 6289
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:56 am
Location: South Carolina

Re: Concealed Carry. Why bother?

Post by YugoRPK » Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:35 am

I'm just looking at it from my perspective where having a gun barrel sticking out under my shirt doesnt bother me. Not really open carry unless I'm hiking and then its a full sized revolver strapped to my leg. Its not against any state laws and enough people carry that its just something you see every day and no one thinks much about it.
Putting the laughter in manslaughter

User avatar
T-Rex
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1864
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:38 pm
Location: CT - The AntiConstitution State

Re: Concealed Carry. Why bother?

Post by T-Rex » Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:37 am

usmcvet0331 wrote: I agree. I don't want people to know I'm carrying until I decide I need to use my gun. The element of surprise should not be under estimated. The bad guy should know when it is too late to do anything.
Let me pose this situation:
A person, intending to do harm, walks into a business, you are also in, pulls out a weapon and proceeds to rob the establishment. Maybe, they grab a hostage or harm someone. You are CC and are able to draw and fire or maybe they are able to harm someone before you get a chance.

Now, that same individual enters and sees you OC, has a flash of cognitive thought, and decides this may not be the place to be aggressive.


Is it going to happen this way? None of us have the answer to this.
Are either of these scenarios plausible? Which one of these has a better outcome, for the innocent parties mentioned?

There is a reason shootings at police stations aren't more frequent.
Completed Builds www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79895
Burst Calculator www.engineersedge.com/calculators/pipe_bust_calc.htm
Silencer Porn www.instagram.com/explore/tags/silencerporn/

Post Reply