Why isn't there copper jacketed .22lr again?
- Stu
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Why isn't there copper jacketed .22lr again?
I know this has been asked a million times before, and I am aware that some company in South Africa or something makes some. Still, why isn't there a commercially produced lead .22 again?
Last edited by Stu on Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
double post, D'oh!
Last edited by tmix on Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[size=150]Machine gun snob by proxy. [/size]
[img]http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x190/tmixon762/Colt_Automatic_Rifle_01.jpg[/img]
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Actually some would buy it - but most of us look for the best buy/cheapest bang for our dollar and specialty ammo like thatdoubloon wrote:It's really not all that hard to understand.
Because nobody will buy it.
would cost 3 to 5 times the cost of bulk 22LR
"Trying to tax yourself into prosperity is like standing in a bucket and trying to pick yourself up by the handle." - Winston Churchill
Winchester Dynapoints are often, but not always, SS in many rifles and pistols. They are copper wash.
If you find any, let me know where.
If you find any, let me know where.
The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground.
Thomas Jefferson
USPSA FY60903...B-class SS, B-class L10, B-class Prod.
IDPA A30195...Expert CDP, Master SSP
Thomas Jefferson
USPSA FY60903...B-class SS, B-class L10, B-class Prod.
IDPA A30195...Expert CDP, Master SSP
I stand corrected! I believe that too.Artful wrote:Actually some would buy it - but most of us look for the best buy/cheapest bang for our dollar and specialty ammo like thatdoubloon wrote:It's really not all that hard to understand.
Because nobody will buy it.
would cost 3 to 5 times the cost of bulk 22LR
May I amend my statement to not enough people will buy it to make it worth someone's while?
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- Stu
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No you may not!doubloon wrote:I stand corrected! I believe that too.Artful wrote:Actually some would buy it - but most of us look for the best buy/cheapest bang for our dollar and specialty ammo like thatdoubloon wrote:It's really not all that hard to understand.
Because nobody will buy it.
would cost 3 to 5 times the cost of bulk 22LR
May I amend my statement to not enough people will buy it to make it worth someone's while?
How many people buy 158 gr 9mm?
22 mag
22 hornet
.32
.41
.410 slugs
etc.
Stu, actually has a good point - if you could round up all of the people willing to pay the extra cost (most likely about twice 22 mag prices) and order (in secured money) a special run of the product (jacketed 22Lr subsonic) it could be worth someone's time to make it. You could approach CCI, Fed, Win, Rem etc with the idea.
Provided the order was big enough - the tough part is getting someone to make jacketed heeled pullets with a jacket thin enough not to to cause high pressures and stay within the pressure curve for reliable operation with domestic and foreign chamber dimensions in blowback rifles.
In the past their have been problems with some loadings not working in all guns, So you may have to have testing weapons with most popular 22LR in use by suppressor owners (Savage Mk2, Ruger 10/22, Ruger Mk2, Walther P22, Buckmark, etc)
Provided the order was big enough - the tough part is getting someone to make jacketed heeled pullets with a jacket thin enough not to to cause high pressures and stay within the pressure curve for reliable operation with domestic and foreign chamber dimensions in blowback rifles.
In the past their have been problems with some loadings not working in all guns, So you may have to have testing weapons with most popular 22LR in use by suppressor owners (Savage Mk2, Ruger 10/22, Ruger Mk2, Walther P22, Buckmark, etc)
"Trying to tax yourself into prosperity is like standing in a bucket and trying to pick yourself up by the handle." - Winston Churchill
Dang, you guys are really going to try to go the distance on this one.
OK, create a market and see if one of the manufacturers will bite.
OK, create a market and see if one of the manufacturers will bite.
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- chrismartin
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I don't even like to call it plated. Rainier or Berry's bullets are plated, you can't scrape it off without a hard tool, though the surface not as thick as a jacketed bullet.Twinsen wrote:Stu, "jacketed", not "plated". Just about all cheap .22LR is plated. Jackets are thick, not just a thin layer you can scrape off with a fingernail.
- continuity
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22 magnum is a non-heeled .224 bulletDiomed wrote:What we want is a .22 magnum bullet in a .22 long rifle case.
Easy as pie!
22 LR is a .223 Heeled bullet
(base is smaller than full diameter of bullet which is same diameter of case)
notice on the magnum the case grips the bullet like all other modern cartridges but the 22 LR grips the lower part of the bullet but the rest of the bullet is the same size as the case itself - all one diameter.
We know a 22 LR Jacketed was developed for the US Gov't in WWII as it was issued with the OSS and CIA High Standard HDM integral sound suppressed pistol.
Oh, I found a link to someone who's touting some
http://www.rimfireuniverse.com/
but they are in South Africa - how to we import?
"Trying to tax yourself into prosperity is like standing in a bucket and trying to pick yourself up by the handle." - Winston Churchill
This is a scan from a June, 1961 TM titled "Small-Arms Ammunition", showing the FMJ 22 LR, which was adopted as the M24. They used standard 22 LR for training, target-practice, competition, etc., but the M24 FMJ was issued for the 22 LR bail-out guns. This manual also shows the 22 Hornet, which they adopted as the M65.
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p22/ ... M24001.jpg
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p22/ ... M24001.jpg
.17 HMR is fully jacketed, and these tend to run about $0.25 per bullet +/-. These are also produced in bulk which would lower the price, yet are also produced at slightly better tolernces which would raise the price.
I figure if jacketed .22 was sold it would go for about the same price, but I don't know how much of a market it would have. There will always be someone somewhere will to purchase something, but at those prices it wouldn't make sense to buy it over a .17 HMR ... unless you needed the bullet to be subsonic. Mostly the only people who care about subsonic are people who use silencers, and this just isn't a big enough crowd.
It is for this same reason that subsonic .223 isn't really an off-the-shelf item; because the only people who would care about it are the people who use a silencer - again - a very small crowd of people (relatively speaking).
I think that if jacketed .22 LR was sold at the $0.25-per-bullet price that a significant percentage of its buyers would be people who just always "buy-the-best" regardless of its merits.
I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't ever buy it. It would be too expensive to use all the time, so I'd inevitably use the lead-fouling variety and still have to take my can apart to clean it. Yeah, you could theoretically get a quieter silencer if it were sealed, but in practice, the quietest silencers on the market right now are servicable so the only real benefit to a jacketed bullet right at this moment is convenience. And when that convenience costs 5-8 times as much, it just isn't worth it.
I figure if jacketed .22 was sold it would go for about the same price, but I don't know how much of a market it would have. There will always be someone somewhere will to purchase something, but at those prices it wouldn't make sense to buy it over a .17 HMR ... unless you needed the bullet to be subsonic. Mostly the only people who care about subsonic are people who use silencers, and this just isn't a big enough crowd.
It is for this same reason that subsonic .223 isn't really an off-the-shelf item; because the only people who would care about it are the people who use a silencer - again - a very small crowd of people (relatively speaking).
I think that if jacketed .22 LR was sold at the $0.25-per-bullet price that a significant percentage of its buyers would be people who just always "buy-the-best" regardless of its merits.
I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't ever buy it. It would be too expensive to use all the time, so I'd inevitably use the lead-fouling variety and still have to take my can apart to clean it. Yeah, you could theoretically get a quieter silencer if it were sealed, but in practice, the quietest silencers on the market right now are servicable so the only real benefit to a jacketed bullet right at this moment is convenience. And when that convenience costs 5-8 times as much, it just isn't worth it.
That's a lot of words but it sure sounds similar to not enough people will buy it.TROOPER wrote:.17 HMR is fully jacketed, and these tend to run about $0.25 per bullet +/-. ...
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Just find a friendly type 08 or 11 FFL.Artful wrote:Oh, I found a link to someone who's touting some
http://www.rimfireuniverse.com/
but they are in South Africa - how to we import?
Easy as pie!
So anyone here 08 or 11 ? I don't know anyone.Diomed wrote:Just find a friendly type 08 or 11 FFL.Artful wrote:Oh, I found a link to someone who's touting some
http://www.rimfireuniverse.com/
but they are in South Africa - how to we import?
Easy as pie!
"Trying to tax yourself into prosperity is like standing in a bucket and trying to pick yourself up by the handle." - Winston Churchill