storing a suppressed weapon?

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Unobtanium
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storing a suppressed weapon?

Post by Unobtanium » Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:13 am

I have heard its bad to store a weapon with suppressor attatched, long term. Is this only if you shoot it, dont clean it, and put it away, or is storing a clean rifle with suppressor that was attached "cold" bad, too? As in, clean rifle, room temp suppressor, attach it and leave it in the safe?

Corrosion was the concern, iirc. I ask because I wabt to know if storing my sbr with suppressor attached and ready to go is harmful in any way.

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Re: storing a suppressed weapon?

Post by Bendersquint » Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:14 am

Unobtanium wrote:I have heard its bad to store a weapon with suppressor attatched, long term. Is this only if you shoot it, dont clean it, and put it away, or is storing a clean rifle with suppressor that was attached "cold" bad, too? As in, clean rifle, room temp suppressor, attach it and leave it in the safe?

Corrosion was the concern, iirc. I ask because I wabt to know if storing my sbr with suppressor attached and ready to go is harmful in any way.
Yes, the suppressor can trap in the humidity and corrosion can take place, not just in the suppressor but the weapon itself.

I don't know how much corrosion would happen because I would never store a can on a firearm. What I do know is that a suppressor is designed to keep gases in, so why wouldn't it hold humidity?

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Re: storing a suppressed weapon?

Post by Unobtanium » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:56 am

Bendersquint wrote:
Unobtanium wrote:I have heard its bad to store a weapon with suppressor attatched, long term. Is this only if you shoot it, dont clean it, and put it away, or is storing a clean rifle with suppressor that was attached "cold" bad, too? As in, clean rifle, room temp suppressor, attach it and leave it in the safe?

Corrosion was the concern, iirc. I ask because I wabt to know if storing my sbr with suppressor attached and ready to go is harmful in any way.
Yes, the suppressor can trap in the humidity and corrosion can take place, not just in the suppressor but the weapon itself.

I don't know how much corrosion would happen because I would never store a can on a firearm. What I do know is that a suppressor is designed to keep gases in, so why wouldn't it hold humidity?
I don't understand why chambers in a suppressor that hold gas would do this and an m4's bolt carrier won't. I don't understand. :(

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Re: storing a suppressed weapon?

Post by Bendersquint » Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:39 am

Unobtanium wrote:
Bendersquint wrote:
Unobtanium wrote:I have heard its bad to store a weapon with suppressor attatched, long term. Is this only if you shoot it, dont clean it, and put it away, or is storing a clean rifle with suppressor that was attached "cold" bad, too? As in, clean rifle, room temp suppressor, attach it and leave it in the safe?

Corrosion was the concern, iirc. I ask because I wabt to know if storing my sbr with suppressor attached and ready to go is harmful in any way.
Yes, the suppressor can trap in the humidity and corrosion can take place, not just in the suppressor but the weapon itself.

I don't know how much corrosion would happen because I would never store a can on a firearm. What I do know is that a suppressor is designed to keep gases in, so why wouldn't it hold humidity?
I don't understand why chambers in a suppressor that hold gas would do this and an m4's bolt carrier won't. I don't understand. :(
How are you comparing a bolt carrier to a suppressor?

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Re: storing a suppressed weapon?

Post by Historian » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:10 am

Also consider using Vapor Phase Inhibitor.

<< http://www-static.shell.com/static/avia ... atives.pdf >>

From personal experience, I bought a canister of the powder in 1960's and still have some left.
Each item to be stored ( e.g., barrels/parts in 4" PVC, weapons in sealed containers, plastic wrapped, etc.) I placed a teaspoon
of the stuff in a cheese cloth wrap within the container. Perfectly protected. Of course each piece has
always gotten the OCD pre-cleaning each time. And each has lasted pristine over the 'millennia'.

Minimally, for a can, soak in boiling soapy water, flush out with more hot water, let evaporate,
and then put some oil as if you were cleaning out a .303 Enfield after having shot 'corrosive',
and store separately unless needed for immediate use.

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Re: storing a suppressed weapon?

Post by 66427vette » Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:00 am

So I should stop storing one behind the seat of my truck ? :D

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Re: storing a suppressed weapon?

Post by ATCDoktor » Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:18 am

Yes, the suppressor can trap in the humidity and corrosion can take place, not just in the suppressor but the weapon itself.

I don't know how much corrosion would happen because I would never store a can on a firearm. What I do know is that a suppressor is designed to keep gases in, so why wouldn't it hold humidity?
I have always heard that a suppressor could hold/trap humidity so I do not store my firearms with suppressors attached.

That said, this thread has me wondering, how does this apply to intergrally suppressed firearms and those that have supressors pinned and welded (unremoveable) to skirt the need for a second stamp on an SBR?

Cleaning suppressors is something that is relatively new to the silencer community and knowing what I do about the firearms cleaning habits of the average shooter I can't help but think that intergrals and weapons that had supressors pinned and welded in place (from back in the day) would be rusted completely through.

Now that I think of it, my SOT has his personal Remington model 700 on display in his shop with an HTG can attached (been there for 5 years that I know of) and he claims he's never taken it off (maybe it wont come off). He does demos with it a few times a week for people that want to hear a suppressor for the first time.

Bender, you work on all this stuff, what have you seen with regards to this phenomenon?

Any pics or stories would be greatly appreciated and go a long way to either reinforcing or debunking the need to store these things seperate.
Last edited by ATCDoktor on Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: storing a suppressed weapon?

Post by doubloon » Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:23 am

As long as it's clean and dry I don't see the problem.

I believe dirt and crud accumulate moisture but I don't think that's the same as spreading it around like a STD.

Silencer Research is the only place I've found so far that comes close to providing "data" on moisture in silencers

http://www.silencerresearch.com/sound_s ... rifles.htm
Moisture Accumulation and Weapon Storage

Water is a major byproduct of gunpowder combustion. A good suppressor will capture and retain a considerable amount of the liquid. Twenty shots from a .308 will cause about a teaspoonful of water to be captured. Whenever possible, the weapon should be carried and stored with the muzzle pointing straight down. The bolt or action should remain open to allow accumulated water to evaporate and vent. If the suppressor is removed as soon as the shooting stops, heat in the suppressor will rapidly dry most of the internal components.

Unfortunately, most rifles are traditionally stored muzzle-up. This causes water and trapped particulates to slowly release, where they will fall and lodge in the chamber area and bolt face. Burned gunpowder is quite dirty, and the inside of a suppressor is usually filthy. Cleaning is best accomplished by flushing the can in solvent, draining, and blowing the unit out with compressed air. One should get in the habit of storing a suppressed rifle by hanging it, muzzle-down. Even stainless steel components will rust if trapped water is not allowed to vent. This may result in a suppressor rusted tightly to its barrel. A bore with rust near its muzzle may lose its accuracy. Corrosion can occur quickly in a warm, moist environment. This is not an aspect to be ignored.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDtd2jNIwAU MUSAFAR!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI This is Water DavidW
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Re: storing a suppressed weapon?

Post by Unobtanium » Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:47 pm

Water is a byproduct of combusting gunpowder, ironically. I am talking about a can that has been shot, removed, cooled, cleaned by rinsing with acetone/copper remover/whatever and then dried in an oven or with a heat-gun. My heat-gun gets EVERYTHING in that can dry, and is way "cooler" than it faces from gunfire, so I doubt it's a no-no.

I understand shooting a weapon and then storing it with the suppressor still in place would be bad, as the temperature differential will cause condensation produced by firing, and within the air, to condense within the suppressor.

However, back to what I was asked. There are chambers in a suppressor. There is nothing magical about it, it's a metal tube filled with metal partitions with a hole drilled down the middle, when you dumb it all down. There is also a chamber in the BCG of an M4--also a metal tube with a hole in the middle. What makes the suppressor chamber some devilbox for the creation of humidity and the gas-tube, especially the BCG, barrel itself, buffer tube, and other "chambers" on the firearm completely innocuous?

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Re: storing a suppressed weapon?

Post by twodollarbill » Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:01 pm

My go-to weapons all have suppressors mounted.
I just make sure they are cleaned and oiled.
I have not seen any corrosion in any of my HKMP5SD's and they have been in boxes for almost 30 years.

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Re: storing a suppressed weapon?

Post by DesertRat » Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:58 pm

twodollarbill wrote:My go-to weapons all have suppressors mounted.
I just make sure they are cleaned and oiled.
Same here. Just clean and lube your s--t after using it. I have guns that, other than while being cleaned, have had cans mounted on them for years. Never an issue with corrosion.

I do, however, store my precision rifle muzzle down with the can mounted.
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Re: storing a suppressed weapon?

Post by Bendersquint » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:01 pm

DesertRat wrote:
I do, however, store my precision rifle muzzle down with the can mounted.
This would be the way I would do it if I was concerned with it.

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Re: storing a suppressed weapon?

Post by ACKF » Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:29 am

That said, this thread has me wondering, how does this apply to intergrally suppressed firearms and those that have supressors pinned and welded (unremoveable) to skirt the need for a second stamp on an SBR?


Muzzle down, both integ cans and attached. there should be no issues unless you live in an area with extreme humidity and never run an air conditioner in the house. I think there is too much assumption and fear of the unknown. I have been making cans and guns for many years and have never had an issue with corrosion. I even left my guns in the safe for 18 months when I deployed to Iraq, everything was just as I left it when I returned.

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Re: storing a suppressed weapon?

Post by Unobtanium » Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:11 am

ACKF wrote:That said, this thread has me wondering, how does this apply to intergrally suppressed firearms and those that have supressors pinned and welded (unremoveable) to skirt the need for a second stamp on an SBR?


Muzzle down, both integ cans and attached. there should be no issues unless you live in an area with extreme humidity and never run an air conditioner in the house. I think there is too much assumption and fear of the unknown. I have been making cans and guns for many years and have never had an issue with corrosion. I even left my guns in the safe for 18 months when I deployed to Iraq, everything was just as I left it when I returned.
The only thing I can think of is that the (large) surface area of the baffles and their orientation is such that if you have wild temperature swings the condensation formed inside the can could theoretically funnel down the bore into the weapon's bore.

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Re: storing a suppressed weapon?

Post by Garrett » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:46 pm

If you really want to get worked up about it, don't forget the potential for galvanic corrosion when you have two dissimilar metals in contact with each other (an aluminum can on a carbon steel barrel, for example).

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Re: storing a suppressed weapon?

Post by Bendersquint » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:56 pm

Garrett wrote:If you really want to get worked up about it, don't forget the potential for galvanic corrosion when you have two dissimilar metals in contact with each other (an aluminum can on a carbon steel barrel, for example).
Most mounts are steel, but its still a valid thing to be concerned about.

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Re: storing a suppressed weapon?

Post by Unobtanium » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:24 pm

Bendersquint wrote:
Garrett wrote:If you really want to get worked up about it, don't forget the potential for galvanic corrosion when you have two dissimilar metals in contact with each other (an aluminum can on a carbon steel barrel, for example).
Most mounts are steel, but its still a valid thing to be concerned about.
I guess I'm screwed. I have a steel barrel in an aluminum upper with a steel barrel-nut connecting the two. :shock:

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Re: storing a suppressed weapon?

Post by Bendersquint » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:30 pm

Unobtanium wrote:
Bendersquint wrote:
Garrett wrote:If you really want to get worked up about it, don't forget the potential for galvanic corrosion when you have two dissimilar metals in contact with each other (an aluminum can on a carbon steel barrel, for example).
Most mounts are steel, but its still a valid thing to be concerned about.
I guess I'm screwed. I have a steel barrel in an aluminum upper with a steel barrel-nut connecting the two. :shock:
There is always corrosion between the barrel extension and the receiver, not much but thats why most smiths put some oil on the extension prior to assembly.

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Re: storing a suppressed weapon?

Post by Unobtanium » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:50 pm

Meh. I'm still butthurt about my X-ray expedition. I burned through half a dozen slides and got very little for it. I didn't want to take any more of his time/equipment.

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Re: storing a suppressed weapon?

Post by Fireman1291 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:04 pm

My guns are stored, clean, lubed, silencers mounted, mags loaded, and chambers empty. I smile everytime I open the safe :lol:
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Re: storing a suppressed weapon?

Post by SRM » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:42 pm

Fireman1291 wrote:My guns are stored, clean, lubed, silencers mounted, mags loaded, and chambers empty. I smile everytime I open the safe :lol:
I like that ready to go ! 8)

I put a bore scope in an ar that was shot suppressed exclusively and never cleaned. Stored with can OFF. The bore looked like the surface of the moon, from one end to the other. So as far as storing with a can I have no problem as long as the bore is cleaned prior and oiled.

One thing to keep in mind is barrels are as expendable as the can is. If you want it to last forever, don't shoot it. If you want it to last longer, take care of it. :)

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Re: storing a suppressed weapon?

Post by Broken11B » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:34 am

When storing the rifle muzzle down, are the guys that do this suspending the rifles, say from the buttstock, so the weight of the rifle isn't supported by the suppressor, or does it matter?

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Re: storing a suppressed weapon?

Post by Bendersquint » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:47 am

Broken11B wrote:When storing the rifle muzzle down, are the guys that do this suspending the rifles, say from the buttstock, so the weight of the rifle isn't supported by the suppressor, or does it matter?
Doesn't matter, just firing the gun is throwing more force on the threads than your 8 lb gun.

If your barrel can't handle that you shouldn't be shooting it!

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Re: storing a suppressed weapon?

Post by continuity » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:06 am

Talk about picking the flea crap outta the pepper... Jeeesh.

And what's this cleaning thing you speak of pilgrim?

Good grief.
What amount of a man is composed of his own collection of experiences... and the conclusions that those experiences have allowed him to "know" for certain as "Truth"? :Ick

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Re: storing a suppressed weapon?

Post by Broken11B » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:22 pm

Bendersquint wrote:
Broken11B wrote:When storing the rifle muzzle down, are the guys that do this suspending the rifles, say from the buttstock, so the weight of the rifle isn't supported by the suppressor, or does it matter?
Doesn't matter, just firing the gun is throwing more force on the threads than your 8 lb gun.

If your barrel can't handle that you shouldn't be shooting it!
Well, I never had any questions or misgivings about weapons storage before this thread. Always went with the: you shoot it, you clean it, you store it method, but I figure asking a simple question is easier than replacing thousands of dollars worth of stuff, even if it does make me look like a window licker in the process.

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