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Just to be clear on the upcoming gun control debate.

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:04 pm
by L1A1Rocker
DO NOT COWER, DO NOT ALLOW OTHERS TO BRIDLE YOU WITH SHAME THAT IS NOT YOURS!

Gun control is responsible for this tragedy, The blood of these innocents is on THEIR hands, not ours; it is high time to point this out. Free fire zones have cost us lives, not saved them. Our teachers and staff must have the means to defend our children. The reason this tragedy happened is because gun control has denied our teachers and staff the ability to defend our children.

GUN CONTROL CAUSED THIS!

Re: Just to be clear on the upcoming gun control debate.

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:41 pm
by Shamrock-MP
I was actually impressed when I heard an on scene reporter from a liberal media outlet imply that schools were targeted because they were soft targets where guns were not allowed. Realizing what he had just said and that he was going to be fired soon, he spent the next 20 minutes explaining that he meant that children were soft targets because they could not defend themselves.

I am trying to figure out a way for teachers to have firearms to protect students but I always run into a teacher at a high school bringing the gun into the fight unwillingly. For example, an armed teacher being jumped by a group of high school football players. The probability that it could occur defeats risk vs reward.

There are about ~26K high schools and ~88k elementary schools. So thats ~114K x $ for security training, security officers, or physical security. This is a very complex and expensive issue to solve. It is just easy for a politician to say gun control can solve the problem and most people believe it.

Plus if you support gun control you get a free Obama Phone.

Re: Just to be clear on the upcoming gun control debate.

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:28 pm
by SRM
This is why everyone should be armed . The cop is only a phone call away right?! They will get there in time to take pictures. I hold the right to defend myself and those with me.

There is nothing stopping this from happening again tomorrow< unless there is someone there to stop it.

The 1911 is locked and loaded and will be with me from now on.

Re: Just to be clear on the upcoming gun control debate.

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:03 am
by continuity
SRM wrote:... The cop is only a phone call away right?! They will get there in time to take pictures. ...
And that is the crux of the situation. You don't want it to be any other way.

It's imperative that we retain the right of self defense.

Re: Just to be clear on the upcoming gun control debate.

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:23 am
by doubloon
Yes, the alternative is not good.

Guys in fatigues with shotguns and M-16s on slings, first in all the public places like schools, malls and events. Then on patrol in APCs just about everywhere, mostly around the "bad" parts of town.

Re: Just to be clear on the upcoming gun control debate.

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:57 am
by MV10
Shamrock-MP wrote:There are about ~26K high schools and ~88k elementary schools. So thats ~114K x $ for security training, security officers, or physical security. This is a very complex and expensive issue to solve.
The more important number is that fifty million children go to school and return home safely every single day in the US. Obviously what happened it is terrible, but I'm not seeing a recurring theme here. I don't think there is a problem to solve.

Re: Just to be clear on the upcoming gun control debate.

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:04 am
by ScottNC
Plus if you support gun control you get a free Obama Phone.


Is this really the time and place for that? What an A-Hole
Ban me if you want, this isn't the time or place for I'm funny and political

Re: Just to be clear on the upcoming gun control debate.

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:16 am
by Libertarian_Geek
ScottNC wrote:Plus if you support gun control you get a free Obama Phone.


Is this really the time and place for that? What an A-Hole
Ban me if you want, this isn't the time or place for I'm funny and political
You're not going to be banned for going against the grain here. This isn't Arfcom, THR, or Warrior Talk.
ScottNC wrote:...this isn't the time or place for I'm funny and political
The NRA has been silent out of respect, yet the gun-banners are heavily politicizing this tragedy. Therefore, the politics are already very much in play. (that speaks to the time).

I'd say that there was more in Shamrock's comment than a simple comical-political jab at Democrats. It's a fact of life. Vote for a gun-grabbing, rights-ignoring Democrat and you get all that goes with him/her. How many folks do you think don't care about their 2nd amendment rights, yet they voted for someone because of the perks that were promised to their demographic? It happens on both sides. There was nothing disrespectful to the victims in his comment. Instead, it was most likely a reaction to all the talk of a new gun/accessory ban.

I'd say that if you don't want to talk about the political topics surrounding the 2nd amendment after a tragedy, then don't visit a site that focuses on silencers and guns. (that speaks to the place) If you'd prefer to visit a pro-Democrat site, I'm sure you'll witness the politics of gun-grabbing many times over (and with an opposite polarization).

There's been so much struggle in the area of 2nd amendment protected rights that it's unavoidable to be politically defensive after an event like this. Even had the anti-gun crowed not lobbed the first volley, a defense would have been necessary. When a political party or presidential administration makes it an integral part of their playbook to use crisis for political gain, you can't exactly fault the other side for having a anticipative flinch. We're little different from Pavlov's dog in that respect. Though as good shooters, I hope we can work out that flinch and stay aimed at our goals of protecting our rights and our loved ones.

Re: Just to be clear on the upcoming gun control debate.

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:37 am
by L1A1Rocker
More relevant information:
The real issue is with "mainstreaming" the mentally ill.

Columbine
Westroads Mall shooting
Colorado Springs Church
Tucson
Century Theater
Virginia Tech
Salt Lake City Mall
Clackamas Mall
Sandy Hook Elementary

Every one of these atrocities was perpetrated by mentally unstable males between the ages of 15 and 30. Some were already on meds. None were institutionalized. That's where our energies should be focused instead of on destroying the bill of rights.

Re: Just to be clear on the upcoming gun control debate.

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:00 pm
by bsn
L1A1Rocker wrote:More relevant information:
The real issue is with "mainstreaming" the mentally ill.

Columbine
Westroads Mall shooting
Colorado Springs Church
Tucson
Century Theater
Virginia Tech
Salt Lake City Mall
Clackamas Mall
Sandy Hook Elementary

Every one of these atrocities was perpetrated by mentally unstable males between the ages of 15 and 30. Some were already on meds. None were institutionalized. That's where our energies should be focused instead of on destroying the bill of rights.
An additional thing to realize is that these types of incidents are media driven.

The media is the impetus for most of the perpetrators, and the subsequent media coverage creates copycats.

The media is aware of this, but it would interfere with ratings to not be involved.

Re: Just to be clear on the upcoming gun control debate.

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:15 pm
by rogerme
bsn wrote:
An additional thing to realize is that these types of incidents are media driven.

The media is the impetus for most of the perpetrators, and the subsequent media coverage creates copycats.

The media is aware of this, but it would interfere with ratings to not be involved.

Ahh but due the the laws the liberals have made regarding the mentally ill they have created a world where they run free. A world where those who require meds to remain civil can not be forced to do so. Where when a person who is mentally ill commits a crime they go to a hospital only to get out when a doc says they are all better.

Once again this all boils down to one single word RESPONSIBILITY! Responsibility for ones actions and deeds. The liberal mentality removes the word itself and replaces it with BLAME. Blame the gun blame the bullets blame the mag but never blame the the PERSON responsible.

Re: Just to be clear on the upcoming gun control debate.

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:09 pm
by rockman96
L1A1Rocker wrote:DO NOT COWER, DO NOT ALLOW OTHERS TO BRIDLE YOU WITH SHAME THAT IS NOT YOURS!

Gun control is responsible for this tragedy, The blood of these innocents is on THEIR hands, not ours; it is high time to point this out. Free fire zones have cost us lives, not saved them. Our teachers and staff must have the means to defend our children. The reason this tragedy happened is because gun control has denied our teachers and staff the ability to defend our children.

GUN CONTROL CAUSED THIS!
AMEN brother!

Re: Just to be clear on the upcoming gun control debate.

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:37 pm
by ScottNC
Libertarian_Geek wrote:
ScottNC wrote:Plus if you support gun control you get a free Obama Phone.


Is this really the time and place for that? What an A-Hole
Ban me if you want, this isn't the time or place for I'm funny and political
You're not going to be banned for going against the grain here. This isn't Arfcom, THR, or Warrior Talk.
ScottNC wrote:...this isn't the time or place for I'm funny and political
The NRA has been silent out of respect, yet the gun-banners are heavily politicizing this tragedy. Therefore, the politics are already very much in play. (that speaks to the time).

I'd say that there was more in Shamrock's comment than a simple comical-political jab at Democrats. It's a fact of life. Vote for a gun-grabbing, rights-ignoring Democrat and you get all that goes with him/her. How many folks do you think don't care about their 2nd amendment rights, yet they voted for someone because of the perks that were promised to their demographic? It happens on both sides. There was nothing disrespectful to the victims in his comment. Instead, it was most likely a reaction to all the talk of a new gun/accessory ban.

I'd say that if you don't want to talk about the political topics surrounding the 2nd amendment after a tragedy, then don't visit a site that focuses on silencers and guns. (that speaks to the place) If you'd prefer to visit a pro-Democrat site, I'm sure you'll witness the politics of gun-grabbing many times over (and with an opposite polarization).

There's been so much struggle in the area of 2nd amendment protected rights that it's unavoidable to be politically defensive after an event like this. Even had the anti-gun crowed not lobbed the first volley, a defense would have been necessary. When a political party or presidential administration makes it an integral part of their playbook to use crisis for political gain, you can't exactly fault the other side for having a anticipative flinch. We're little different from Pavlov's dog in that respect. Though as good shooters, I hope we can work out that flinch and stay aimed at our goals of protecting our rights and our loved ones.

Thank you for the post Lib

Re: Just to be clear on the upcoming gun control debate.

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:32 pm
by fastfire
http://www.standeyo.com/NEWS/12_Pics_of ... day.c.html


I have always thought this should be carried out here also.
The crazies will do what they do....we need to be prepared.

Re: Just to be clear on the upcoming gun control debate.

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:41 pm
by L1A1Rocker
fastfire wrote:http://www.standeyo.com/NEWS/12_Pics_of ... day.c.html


I have always thought this should be carried out here also.
The crazies will do what they do....we need to be prepared.
LOL, that picture is really making the rounds.

Re: Just to be clear on the upcoming gun control debate.

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:00 am
by 2manygunz
Shamrock-MP wrote:I was actually impressed when I heard an on scene reporter from a liberal media outlet imply that schools were targeted because they were soft targets where guns were not allowed.
Foxes hunt squirrels, but not porcupines. You can learn a lot from nature.

Re: Just to be clear on the upcoming gun control debate.

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:03 pm
by ick
rogerme wrote:
bsn wrote:
An additional thing to realize is that these types of incidents are media driven.

The media is the impetus for most of the perpetrators, and the subsequent media coverage creates copycats.

The media is aware of this, but it would interfere with ratings to not be involved.

Ahh but due the the laws the liberals have made regarding the mentally ill they have created a world where they run free. A world where those who require meds to remain civil can not be forced to do so. Where when a person who is mentally ill commits a crime they go to a hospital only to get out when a doc says they are all better.

Once again this all boils down to one single word RESPONSIBILITY! Responsibility for ones actions and deeds. The liberal mentality removes the word itself and replaces it with BLAME. Blame the gun blame the bullets blame the mag but never blame the the PERSON responsible.
I would like to build on this further.... due to laws our nanny state not only provides a world where people roam free of the consequences of their life choices.... the system funds and thereby EXPANDS this kind of dead-beat behavior. Free food, free health care, refundable tax credits, free or reduced-price housing.... you name it.

I know a guy that is on "social security disability" that are clearly able to work.... and every month he gets his check it goes up his nose or to purchase the latest iPhone. The state feeds him, provides him a place to live, protects him from the consequences of his choices. How long until he decides he doesn't want yet another TV, XBOX, or smart phone... and decides having a gun is "cool"?

I told him to NOT buy another smart phone and save his money so he can buy groceries until his food stamps card gets re-filled. He says to me "Why can't I have nice things? You have nice things, don't I deserve nice things too?" No, William. You are able to work yet you live off of the state. You shouldn't have a nicer smart phone, you should experience the consequences of your choices.

How can you overcome that attitude and impart understanding? You can't. You must change the system and allow people to learn the consequences from their poor choices the hard way.

I feel bad for the children of these kinds of non-thinking people... as they are going to bear the brunt of changes in the welfare state... but won't it be better for the children long-term if the parents are forced to wise-up?

Re: Just to be clear on the upcoming gun control debate.

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:29 pm
by OJB4
ick wrote:
rogerme wrote:
bsn wrote:
An additional thing to realize is that these types of incidents are media driven.

The media is the impetus for most of the perpetrators, and the subsequent media coverage creates copycats.

The media is aware of this, but it would interfere with ratings to not be involved.

Ahh but due the the laws the liberals have made regarding the mentally ill they have created a world where they run free. A world where those who require meds to remain civil can not be forced to do so. Where when a person who is mentally ill commits a crime they go to a hospital only to get out when a doc says they are all better.



Once again this all boils down to one single word RESPONSIBILITY! Responsibility for ones actions and deeds. The liberal mentality removes the word itself and replaces it with BLAME. Blame the gun blame the bullets blame the mag but never blame the the PERSON responsible.
I would like to build on this further.... due to laws our nanny state not only provides a world where people roam free of the consequences of their life choices.... the system funds and thereby EXPANDS this kind of dead-beat behavior. Free food, free health care, refundable tax credits, free or reduced-price housing.... you name it.

I know a guy that is on "social security disability" that are clearly able to work.... and every month he gets his check it goes up his nose or to purchase the latest iPhone. The state feeds him, provides him a place to live, protects him from the consequences of his choices. How long until he decides he doesn't want yet another TV, XBOX, or smart phone... and decides having a gun is "cool"?

I told him to NOT buy another smart phone and save his money so he can buy groceries until his food stamps card gets re-filled. He says to me "Why can't I have nice things? You have nice things, don't I deserve nice things too?" No, William. You are able to work yet you live off of the state. You shouldn't have a nicer smart phone, you should experience the consequences of your choices.

How can you overcome that attitude and impart understanding? You can't. You must change the system and allow people to learn the consequences from their poor choices the hard way.

I feel bad for the children of these kinds of non-thinking people... as they are going to bear the brunt of changes in the welfare state... but won't it be better for the children long-term if the parents are forced to wise-up?

I will build on this yet even further. I run a family owned pharmacy in a small town. The amount of people that deal here on Medicaid that are abusing the system is unreal! Once in awhile we even get those who are receiving this "Free" (HAHA) healthcare complain excessively about their 50 cent - $3 copayment for a prescription that would literally cost a customer with no insurance thousands of dollars!!!! Yet these same people (and evidently our state) feel that those poor decision makers deserve to have that latest and greatest medication when there is something older and usually equally effective that costs pennies on the dollar.

We need to either change the mentality of the entitled, or as you say......let them learn the hard way (I'm all for this option). Get rid of the "Hand Out" system we have and instead have a "Hand UP" System. I'm all for helping.....supporting tends to strike a nerve. (I realize that I'm preaching to the choir here) This country can't survive in the long term until this problem is addressed and corrected. The fiscal cliff is nothing compared to the sharp rocky bottom that awaits us at the end of our fall.

Re: Just to be clear on the upcoming gun control debate.

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:39 pm
by ick
Oy, I shake my head in embarrassment with stories like that. How low we have come.