Black Rain Ordnance (BRO) aquired HTG Silencers!

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bani
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Re: Black Rain Ordnance (BRO) aquired HTG Silencers!

Post by bani »

Munk wrote:The fact is, there simply isn't any evidence to suggests that their bores are too small to be considered safe/reliable...which is odd if there truly is a problem with their design. So if there is a higher probability of baffle strikes because of HTG's smaller bore size, either every HTG owner is keeping their mouth shut, or that difference is negligible.
HTG customers are apparently satisfied with the product for whatever reason. either that or HTG is threatening owners to keep them quiet. :mrgreen:
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Munk
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Re: Black Rain Ordnance (BRO) aquired HTG Silencers!

Post by Munk »

A bit of bad news for HTG owners, here's the scoop on the BRO honoring HTG's lifetime warranty:

"Black Rain Ordnance, Inc. acquired HTG Silencers in October of last year we are currently working to blend some of there technology, patents, and designs with ours. We have not began full line production yet with this line. When this line of silencers becomes available it will be marked as Black Rain Ordnance, Inc. not HTG as we bought their assets; not there liabilities. Black Rain Ordnance, Inc. has established a mark of quality and performance that is lifetime warrantied but cannot stand good for or back something done before we were involved."

On one hand I understand what they are saying. BRO had nothing to do with any of the HTG silencers that went out before they acquired the company. However, with that being said, I don't think that this was a very smart business move. It's not uncommon for a business to honor the warranties/policies of the company they acquire, and there's a reason behind that. BRO mentioned that they bought HTG's assets ("not their liabilities") but they seem to forget that a HTG's client base isn't a liability, but an asset in of itself -- quite possibly one of the most valuable assets HTG had (next to the design patent). The people they are disowning are the same people who would be most likely to buy from them in the future, as well as the same people who are currently doing all of their word-to-mouth advertising.

What do you think will happen in the mind's of those people when they find out that BRO elected not to honor HTG's warranty? Do you think that is going to help or hurt them with getting started in the suppressor business? Don't get me wrong, it's not that I don't understand the reasoning behind their decision, I just think it was the wrong decision. BRO had a chance to win the loyalty of HTG's customers, but instead of doing that, showed them the door. That bit of CYA may end up proving to be a very costly mistake...

It's just a shame. They'll be getting an email from me shortly.
bani
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Re: Black Rain Ordnance (BRO) aquired HTG Silencers!

Post by bani »

got my stamps today. two HTG in hand :mrgreen:

what is the expected "safe" bore diameter for a .223 and 7.62 can?
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Munk
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Re: Black Rain Ordnance (BRO) aquired HTG Silencers!

Post by Munk »

Dammit! :evil: I sent in 3 stamps on the same day, one for an SBR and two for cans. I got my SBR stamp like 2-3 weeks ago...still nothing on the can stamps :(
bani
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Re: Black Rain Ordnance (BRO) aquired HTG Silencers!

Post by bani »

silencertalk wrote:You can always open the bore. If you have one of those 200 piece drill bit sets you can use it to measure and report the bore that it has.
looks like it won't be necessary.

if HTG had overly tight bores in the past, looks like they no longer do.

calipered my coyoti and predator and they are 100% good to go. no need to open them.
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Munk
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Re: Black Rain Ordnance (BRO) aquired HTG Silencers!

Post by Munk »

That's good to know!
bani
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Re: Black Rain Ordnance (BRO) aquired HTG Silencers!

Post by bani »

just got back from the range. both the coyoti and predator ran great! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

now i just need to get my savage 17hmr and my garand m1 threaded...!
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Munk
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Re: Black Rain Ordnance (BRO) aquired HTG Silencers!

Post by Munk »

I can't wait until I can get ahold of mine. These last few weeks of waiting have seemed longer than the last 5 months combined!
bani
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Re: Black Rain Ordnance (BRO) aquired HTG Silencers!

Post by bani »

htg coyoti on an m&p22 is ridiculously quiet :mrgreen:

thankfully it is take apart can, 22lr ammo is filthy and leaded.
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Munk
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Re: Black Rain Ordnance (BRO) aquired HTG Silencers!

Post by Munk »

Torture! I'm calling the ATF Monday morning dammit
bani
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Re: Black Rain Ordnance (BRO) aquired HTG Silencers!

Post by bani »

Oh yea, get some wooden dowels. You will need them to tap the baffles out when it fills up with crud.
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Munk
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Re: Black Rain Ordnance (BRO) aquired HTG Silencers!

Post by Munk »

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bani
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Re: Black Rain Ordnance (BRO) aquired HTG Silencers!

Post by bani »

glad it worked out :mrgreen:

they really are excellent suppressors.
bani
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Re: Black Rain Ordnance (BRO) aquired HTG Silencers!

Post by bani »

i love my HTGs! hopefully BRO can continue manufacturing them.
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Munk
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Re: Black Rain Ordnance (BRO) aquired HTG Silencers!

Post by Munk »

BRO should have stepped up and honored HTG's warranty when they acquired the company (and in effect, their clientele).
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Conqueror
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Re: Black Rain Ordnance (BRO) aquired HTG Silencers!

Post by Conqueror »

Munk wrote:I did some quick research on "HTG baffle strikes" and "HTG tight bore", but only got hits from Silencertalk.com.
I would suggest a good reason for that: for many years this was pretty much the only site on the internet providing good information on silencers. Before 2005, 2006 the only other places to find silencer discussion were ARFCOM (which was, and is, terrible in this regard) and THR (full of FUDDs and people who think you'll need a "class 3 license" to own a can). The internet has done a good job disseminating information, such that most forums have at least a few knowledgable posters nowadays, but prior to 2010 or so if you were serious about suppressors, you were posting here.
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bani
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Re: Black Rain Ordnance (BRO) aquired HTG Silencers!

Post by bani »

Conqueror wrote:
Munk wrote:I did some quick research on "HTG baffle strikes" and "HTG tight bore", but only got hits from Silencertalk.com.
I would suggest a good reason for that: for many years this was pretty much the only site on the internet providing good information on silencers. Before 2005, 2006 the only other places to find silencer discussion were ARFCOM (which was, and is, terrible in this regard) and THR (full of FUDDs and people who think you'll need a "class 3 license" to own a can). The internet has done a good job disseminating information, such that most forums have at least a few knowledgable posters nowadays, but prior to 2010 or so if you were serious about suppressors, you were posting here.
the other possibility is that it never turned up because its no longer any problem, if my suppressors are any indication. tight bore is not an issue.
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Bendersquint
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Re: Black Rain Ordnance (BRO) aquired HTG Silencers!

Post by Bendersquint »

bani wrote:
Conqueror wrote:
Munk wrote:I did some quick research on "HTG baffle strikes" and "HTG tight bore", but only got hits from Silencertalk.com.
I would suggest a good reason for that: for many years this was pretty much the only site on the internet providing good information on silencers. Before 2005, 2006 the only other places to find silencer discussion were ARFCOM (which was, and is, terrible in this regard) and THR (full of FUDDs and people who think you'll need a "class 3 license" to own a can). The internet has done a good job disseminating information, such that most forums have at least a few knowledgable posters nowadays, but prior to 2010 or so if you were serious about suppressors, you were posting here.
the other possibility is that it never turned up because its no longer any problem, if my suppressors are any indication. tight bore is not an issue.
My HTG cans had issues because of the tight bore, as soon as they were opened up to industry standards the problem went away, accuracy didn't improve either, they both were terrible.
bani
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Re: Black Rain Ordnance (BRO) aquired HTG Silencers!

Post by bani »

likely hasn't been a problem for years. otherwise it would have shown up on other forums by now.

accuracy testing is next on my list.
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Re: Black Rain Ordnance (BRO) aquired HTG Silencers!

Post by biffstir »

Disclosure: I rep Black Rain's line.
Black Rain is a no BS company that's making some of the best AR platform product on the market. You can expect the same kind of quality from them when they begin producing cans, count on it.

Don't know about the decision to not honor HTG warranties aka liabilities, and understand the posts about potentially losing legacy owners, but maybe their lawyers made 'em do the deal that way? Who knows, once current HTG owners get to know BRO, they might even become fans :)

Some of you are saying HTG was a small company, small distribution, so wouldn't that mean limited warranty/liability exposure in the marketplace? And if there are virtually no complaints about the few cans in circulation, and we assume that anyone who owns one already had it installed, then BRO should have few if any issues with HTG products.

Check out a BRO rifle (if you can find a dealer with one still on the shelf) and you'll see why HTG can owners can rest easy knowing that if they can't get their can fixed under warranty, at least they can pay BRO to get it done right and proper.

Beyond that...keep your eyes out for the BRO cans and if/when you buy/test one, I look forward to your reviews posted here. Thanks!
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kalikraven
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Re: Black Rain Ordnance (BRO) aquired HTG Silencers!

Post by kalikraven »

So one small company buys another and drops warranty support for the products. Shitty move. But I wouldn't buy their cans anyways as I only buy from the big companies with good reputations of support and quality.
Going a little more discrete here due to some of my opinions...
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Re: Black Rain Ordnance (BRO) aquired HTG Silencers!

Post by biffstir »

I imagine that's one way to look at it, sure. Or, to your point, one small company that doesn't have the deep pockets to buy the huge liability insurance policies and legal representation they would need in order to warrant the products of the small company they're acquiring has opted instead to not warrant said small company's products.

The big companies you mention likely have the deep pockets in question and can cover those liabilities and lawyers. If I was a bettin' man I'd say that if an HTG can fails, BRO would do the guy/gal a solid and comp them a new one, but I try to stay away from casinos :)
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Munk
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Re: Black Rain Ordnance (BRO) aquired HTG Silencers!

Post by Munk »

biffstir wrote:...If I was a bettin' man I'd say that if an HTG can fails, BRO would do the guy/gal a solid and comp them a new one, but I try to stay away from casinos :)

And that's what would have thought as well...until I went and asked them that same question. Here's to hoping the answer I received was just their "official" stance in order to limit legal liabilities, and not what they would do if/when a legacy HTG customer inquires about that lifetime warranty they thought they had.
bani
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Re: Black Rain Ordnance (BRO) aquired HTG Silencers!

Post by bani »

my HTG cans continue to impress. if BRO can continue manufacturing them it will be awesome.
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Wakko
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Re: Black Rain Ordnance (BRO) aquired HTG Silencers!

Post by Wakko »

I suspect that the large companies today started as small companies yesterday... :wink:

Did you ever do your accuracy testing?

ETA: I went to the HTG page and there's no redirect or reference to BRO. That's dumb.
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