gunrange issue

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renegade
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Re: gunrange issue

Post by renegade »

Bendersquint wrote:
renegade wrote:
silencertalk wrote:I still would boycott them - they called the cops on a customer for no good reason. Terminex called the police on me when they saw an airsoft gun in my house and acted surprised when I cancelled my contract. While I did not try to organize a boycott, I did tell people the name of the company. The range should be named.
Agreed.

Calling cops on a customer is an extreme position. If you think the gun is illegal, tell them to leave.
What if their insurance requires they report it?
Their insurance policy requires them to call the police when someone is using a legal firearm at their range?

Show me the policy.
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Libertarian_Geek
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Re: gunrange issue

Post by Libertarian_Geek »

Bendersquint wrote:
renegade wrote:
silencertalk wrote:I still would boycott them - they called the cops on a customer for no good reason. Terminex called the police on me when they saw an airsoft gun in my house and acted surprised when I cancelled my contract. While I did not try to organize a boycott, I did tell people the name of the company. The range should be named.
Agreed.

Calling cops on a customer is an extreme position. If you think the gun is illegal, tell them to leave.
What if their insurance requires they report it?
If their insurance required them to report it(illegal guns) then, the burden is on them to learn (and train staff) what guns/devices are illegal and not assume such things.
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JohnnyC
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Re: gunrange issue

Post by JohnnyC »

continuity wrote:
JohnnyC wrote:Expensive? Not likely.
Becoming clearer now. You must be an attorney. Or so familiar with the system that you play it for the free representation, all the while enjoying time in the pod with friends and family.
JohnnyC wrote:You could also likely sue the ever loving s--t out of the department...
On what basis? Civil Rights violation? Illegal arrest? Relative the thread subject and my position, bet it would be hard to find an attorney to touch it. Guarantee you if you did, they'd want an up front retainer fee.
JohnnyC wrote:The burden of proof is absolutely on LE and an attorney general to prove your guilt. It might be unpleasant for a little bit, but it will not be expensive and you will not be found guilty...
Why do you even put yourself out there like this? The point of contact NFA item possession requirement for LE is reasonable suspicion or probable cause. LE witnesses your possession of something that is contraband and that bar is met. If there is no real time presentable evidence to the contrary, arrest is imminent.

The AG/Prosecutor does bear a higher (as it should be) proof level for a conviction.
JohnnyC wrote:If a cop is too busy eating donuts and inventing probable cause to do his due diligence, well, might as well take his pension for being a fuckwit.
Inventing probable cause? If you possess the contraband, what's to invent? Due diligence? LOL... if you decide not to show the required proof of possession at point of contact, the due diligence is to arrest you. Some arrests are more satisfactory to make than others.

You're a class act. Wondering if you picked up the term "fuckwit" by hearing it directed towards yourself so many times?
JohnnyC wrote:I'm sure you would have been an asshole though. But that's pretty par for the course regarding your behavior based on what I've seen here.
Meh... Been called worse. Usually it's when I'm interacting with someone one on their own level.

You don't get it do you. It's pretty apparent that you're the cop that thinks they're above the law when it comes to these matters. Look at all of the state laws quoted, they're all contraband unless they meet the requirements set forth by federal law. The fact that they have a serial number on each item, which can be legally taken into custody during the interaction in order to determine the legality of said item, is due diligence enough for the person in possession of the item. Are you as lazy when it comes to firearms? How many stolen firearms have you given back because you were too busy jerking off on your toughbook to your ex-girlfriends driving record to actually do your job and check the serial number? You've already proven in several threads that you're the type of cop that gives all the others a bad name. Hell, you'd probably help the feds with a confiscation wouldn't you.

Presentation of tax paperwork is only legally required to be presented to an agent of the ATF. If you, as a police officer, fail to find probable cause or reasonable suspicion, WHICH IS NOT SIMPLY THE POSSESSION OF AN ITEM, and you harass an individual, you better believe your dick is gonna get slapped.
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Re: gunrange issue

Post by doubloon »

The possession of a prohibited item.
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Re: gunrange issue

Post by Historian »

renegade wrote:
ATCDoktor wrote:
Any LEO can require you to show your paperwork to determine whether your NFA item is properly registered.WRONG
I assure you that if an LEO requests to see your forms reference an NFA item in your possession he will see them sooner or later.

QFT. :lol:
Quantum Field Theory!!!.

Holy crap, the LEOs are getting better educated
by the day! You are so lucky.

Not only would I happily show them all my paper work out of courtesy, but ask them if
gauge theory admits a symmetry with a local parameter and its relation to Feynman Dyson Renormalization.
And if he had the time I would definitely invite him over coffee to discuss any advances in application of n-Categories
to Quantum Gravity.

Sorrowfully, my local constabulary only got to Newtonian Mechanics.
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continuity
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Re: gunrange issue

Post by continuity »

JohnnyC wrote:...If you, as a police officer, fail to find probable cause or reasonable suspicion, WHICH IS NOT SIMPLY THE POSSESSION OF AN ITEM, and you harass an individual, you better believe your dick is gonna get slapped.
Help me. It's 6pm on Sunday. Let me understand how you think a LEO that is dispatched to a call should operate where an observable NFA item is possessed, and there is question relative the legality of that possession. Be reasonable. My responsibility is to ascertain if an established law has been breached. I can't just go away. That falls under dereliction of duty.

Given your previous posts, I'm expecting a... you're a MF'in nazi wannabe, kiss mah ass you 2nd amendment destroying F'tard, I hate all cops guts, response. We'll see.



While I'm trying to give you some breathing room, I do take exception to your emotional posts. There are Peace Officers that with no legal burden to do so, will go to the utmost lengths and at risk of up chain attention relative time spent on contact, to assist in obtaining mitigating evidence to a chargeable offense. If the extra effort fails, the subject Peace Officer is responsible to, without discretion, exercise their duty required sanctioning of that contact.

As a note: YOU sir, are one reason I make sure my cruiser video, and body mike, are both operating when I make a traffic stop or contact relative a dispatched complaint. YOUR attitude is one of the reasons that a divide is widening between those charged with keeping the peace, and the (forgive the term) general public.
What amount of a man is composed of his own collection of experiences... and the conclusions that those experiences have allowed him to "know" for certain as "Truth"? :Ick
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Libertarian_Geek
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Re: gunrange issue

Post by Libertarian_Geek »

I see a beer summit coming. :lol:
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continuity
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Re: gunrange issue

Post by continuity »

Historian wrote:...ask them if gauge theory admits a symmetry with a local parameter...
Meh... intimation perhaps, but calling it a full admission is going a bit far... so says my GF who consulted the research scientist she works for as a lab tech.

Don't worry. I'm not about to interject a new personality into my posts. As far as firearms goes my, +165 IQ'ed, non-tattooed, fully shaven, co-habiter says that she only needs the MAC and 6 loaded mags to care for things when I'm away from the castle.
Historian wrote:Sorrowfully, my local constabulary only got to Newtonian Mechanics.
Guilty. Sux, but it is what it is brotha. On the up side, if you need it handcuffed or shot, I've got a doctorate.
Last edited by continuity on Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
What amount of a man is composed of his own collection of experiences... and the conclusions that those experiences have allowed him to "know" for certain as "Truth"? :Ick
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continuity
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Re: gunrange issue

Post by continuity »

Libertarian_Geek wrote:I see a beer summit coming. :lol:
If it's not Coor's light, in a can, I'm not coming. I'm not picking up the tab this time, and it'd better be more than one, or I'm walking.
What amount of a man is composed of his own collection of experiences... and the conclusions that those experiences have allowed him to "know" for certain as "Truth"? :Ick
Historian
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Re: gunrange issue

Post by Historian »

continuity wrote:
Historian wrote:...ask them if gauge theory admits a symmetry with a local parameter...
Meh... intimation perhaps, but calling it a full admission is going a bit far... so says my GF who consulted the research scientist she works for as a lab tech.

Don't worry. I'm not about to interject a new personality into my posts. As far as firearms goes my, +165 IQ'ed, non-tattooed, co-habiter says that she only needs the MAC and 6 loaded mags to care for things when I'm away from the castle.
Historian wrote:Sorrowfully, my local constabulary only got to Newtonian Mechanics.
Guilty. Sux, but it is what it is brotha. On the up side, if you need it handcuffed or shot, I've got a doctorate.
Bravo! My admiration for your daily risking yourself with honor and decency to keep the heathen
at bay. And you daily are doing post-Doc work.

Best, stay safe.
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Re: gunrange issue

Post by ATCDoktor »

Presentation of tax paperwork is only legally required to be presented to an agent of the ATF.
It is strange that to administrate an individual transfer this "Tax" paperwork must be sighted and signed by the Chief Law Enforcement officer of the county in which the transferee lives.

That is the LEGAL requirement.

It MUST be done or no individual transfer can be administrated.

It has been this way for almost 80 years.

A Law Enforcement Officer MUST see and SIGN the paperwork for an individual transfer, it is the LAW.

This paperwork is completely filled out, with the transferee's address, serial number of weapon and reason stated for possession before he signs it, there's nothing else on this document of personal nature, nothing, nada, zilch.

With all that said, riddle me this, it's THE LAW that a LAW ENFORCEMENT officer has to see and sign this paperwork when a Transferee needs a signature (for an individual transfer) and as soon as he signs it under no circumstances can the Transferee be compelled by any LEO (other than ATF officers) to present it regardless of circumstances surrounding the public/LEO's interests or duty?

LAW ENFORCEMENT has already seen it, signed it and in some circumstances copied/scanned it and filed it away and you say there's no legal point of reference for LEO's who are trying to determine whether a crime has been committed reference possession of NFA item to sight the forms?

All I can say dude is you need to put your dentures back in your assshole because some of us can't understand what your saying.
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continuity
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Re: gunrange issue

Post by continuity »

Historian wrote:...Best, stay safe.
Thank you. Thought appreciated. Really.
Peace.
What amount of a man is composed of his own collection of experiences... and the conclusions that those experiences have allowed him to "know" for certain as "Truth"? :Ick
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Re: gunrange issue

Post by ChimeraPrecision »

I sort of enjoy showing my forms to anyone who asks.

The best thing we can do for this hobby is Educate people.

I show the form, explain the process of acquiring such a form and ask if they would like to try my stuff.

Being an asshole to a cop will do nothing but piss him off and make him want to ruin your day. Show him the stuff and get on with your day like an adult
Keep calm, and suppress on
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Re: gunrange issue

Post by Historian »

ChimeraPrecision wrote:I sort of enjoy showing my forms to anyone who asks.

The best thing we can do for this hobby is Educate people.

I show the form, explain the process of acquiring such a form and ask if they would like to try my stuff.

Being an asshole to a cop will do nothing but piss him off and make him want to ruin your day. Show him the stuff and get on with your day like an adult
+2!!!

Of course those who want to get free Government meals and tats like BORN TO LOSE, etc. might consider
the observation told effectively by my alter ego, George Carlin, about being self-screwing by being disrespectful to Law Enforcement. :) :)

<< http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsmZCsvE-sI >>
sarthree
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Re: gunrange issue

Post by sarthree »

Bendersquint wrote:His house, his rules.

Well put. You don't have to show him your forms...he also doesn't have to let you shoot there.
ericlw
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Re: gunrange issue

Post by ericlw »

if the range doesnt like supressors or whatever they need to post it on their rules.

i dont mind showing it to an officer but some guy at the range who acts like an ahole i will challenge his authority to see any of my paperwork.
IF the guy came up to me and said hey you forgot to tell us you were shooting supressed and we need to make sure its legit i have no problem with that.

I had been shooting for over an hour before anyone came to make a big deal about it.

if he doesnt want me to shoot their then tell me to leave its very simple.i never said i wouldnt leave or i had the right to shoot their. im not sure who came up with the idea that it was my right or somthing?and who came up with the idea i would refuse to show my paper work to an officer anyway? another made up story.

besides i will never shoot at that range and never give them a positive review so they lose either way.
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Re: gunrange issue

Post by silencertalk »

66427vette wrote:
silencertalk wrote:I still would boycott them - they called the cops on a customer for no good reason. Terminex called the police on me when they saw an airsoft gun in my house and acted surprised when I cancelled my contract. While I did not try to organize a boycott, I did tell people the name of the company. The range should be named.

Please tell how that played out.

House was flooded with maybe six cop cars. Knocked on my door. We have "may issue" permits here, so I decided not to insist they get a warrant. I let them in. They saw that not only was the gun an Airsoft, but it was behind two locked doors. They said no problem and left. Terminex seemed to want to justify their employees action. I said that unless he saw bodies in my house, it was none of his business. They let me out of the contract.
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Re: gunrange issue

Post by M40A1308M »

With the upcoming of the gun ban upon us I have been seeing a increase of illegal object surfacing in to our store. Our store has a lax policy to lax in my opinion. So a guy sat walked in with a TRUE M14 I know there were some that looked real but this was all the way. The serial placed it somewhere in on war or two. Thew switch and the bar were removed but in the bag. so he wanted to sell it or trade it for a rem700. Well we looked at it and as soon as we found out we pulled him aside and explained the laws and rules.He had no paperwork or any idea were he got it from as he dawned his war veteran hat and pin. So as I said we pulled him aside and told him to leave with the rifle and put it away and he was welcome to stay and look. Well to many were listing to the others at the counter and wanted to look at it. The the guy started trying to sell it on our floor to other customers. So I politely ask him to leave as we would not like to be associated with this contraband. But no police were called I don't think he liked it but we can't take the liability hit if something goes wrong. Yea we could have reported it but why? I,m sure the guy buying it will more than likely try to sell it and get busted as I have heard he has a issue with that.

That's just one thing I have seen recently there are more but you get the point. This assault weapon ban is making people money hungry and scared so I think the anti-gunners are getting exactly what they want..

I think the statement above is wrong you shouldn't go were there is scrutiny on NFA. It is legal there is nothing wrong with it. We shouldn't have to hide from people and what they think. Why should we go under darkness for our hobby. I say what ever the rang take what ever apply to there rules.

But be polite and courteous no matter what. Starting the confrontation was the original problem the range guy might feel like you believe he is a bother or less than you are as a person when you talked down to him as if to say "You don't mean s--t to me this is my range not yours" I feel that allot at our rang because people have self entitlement issues but who wins in the end no one. At our range we ask politely before the range session begins if we feel something does not comply with our rules. Our i ask if im at a new range if something I am shooting is ok to shoot.
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Re: gunrange issue

Post by Historian »

M40A1308M wrote:With the upcoming of the gun ban upon us I have been seeing a increase of illegal object surfacing in to our store. Our store has a lax policy to lax in my opinion. So a guy sat walked in with a TRUE M14 I know there were some that looked real but this was all the way. The serial placed it somewhere in on war or two. Thew switch and the bar were removed but in the bag. so he wanted to sell it or trade it for a rem700. Well we looked at it and as soon as we found out we pulled him aside and explained the laws and rules.He had no paperwork or any idea were he got it from as he dawned his war veteran hat and pin. So as I said we pulled him aside and told him to leave with the rifle and put it away and he was welcome to stay and look. Well to many were listing to the others at the counter and wanted to look at it. The the guy started trying to sell it on our floor to other customers. So I politely ask him to leave as we would not like to be associated with this contraband. But no police were called I don't think he liked it but we can't take the liability hit if something goes wrong. Yea we could have reported it but why? I,m sure the guy buying it will more than likely try to sell it and get busted as I have heard he has a issue with that.

That's just one thing I have seen recently there are more but you get the point. This assault weapon ban is making people money hungry and scared so I think the anti-gunners are getting exactly what they want..

I think the statement above is wrong you shouldn't go were there is scrutiny on NFA. It is legal there is nothing wrong with it. We shouldn't have to hide from people and what they think. Why should we go under darkness for our hobby. I say what ever the rang take what ever apply to there rules.

But be polite and courteous no matter what. Starting the confrontation was the original problem the range guy might feel like you believe he is a bother or less than you are as a person when you talked down to him as if to say "You don't mean s--t to me this is my range not yours" I feel that allot at our rang because people have self entitlement issues but who wins in the end no one. At our range we ask politely before the range session begins if we feel something does not comply with our rules. Our i ask if im at a new range if something I am shooting is ok to shoot.
You have presented noble, classy, and mature advice. Well said, Sir.

One should save the 'attitude' for the marxists when they come ... and they will as the
limp dick Congressional Republicans will allow the Constitution to be continually shredded
by a third world hell-hole petty dictator.

All must see the Daniel Craig BluRay "Defiance", about Russian Jews who refused to let themselves
be rounded up and exterminated and by their defiance survived the War to come to America and
raise their families. As my good friend who survived the camps as a child and who passed away
a few years ago often said "It surely can happen here". And with the delusionary help of the Diane Feinsteins
and Chuck Schumers.


Best.
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Re: gunrange issue

Post by doubloon »

Historian wrote:... "It surely can happen here". And with the delusionary help of the Diane Feinsteins
and Chuck Schumers.
...
QFT

Those cotton headed dimwits don't even know what they're playing with.

Their judgement is so clouded by their own personal agenda they can't even see what types of gates they are attempting to open or what they will allow to walk through.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDtd2jNIwAU MUSAFAR!
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