Is the sellout starting to form?

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silencertalk
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Re: Is the sellout starting to form?

Post by silencertalk » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:32 am

Yes, NICS already provides a transaction ID. The proof that an individual did the check could be identical to the proof that a dealer has done a NICS check.

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Re: Is the sellout starting to form?

Post by trek45 » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:35 am

glocker17 wrote:This is nothing new, and nothing else would be needed. We already have this, the number provided by NICS can be verified but not the info. Otherwise a dealer could just make up a batch of numbers on a 4473. I have requested this info internally, and it does in fact use a logarithmic scale to produce the NICS number. BATFE can verify that a number was issued, but keeps no other info after a period of time.
It sounds like what you're saying is that they can verify that the number is real, but can't determine which buyer or which transaction that number is associated with.

If I follow correctly, doesn't that mean that someone could take one of these NICS approval numbers and slap it on any other 4473, and BATFE wouldn't be able - in theory - to determine whether the approval number actually accompanies that purchase or another one?

I could see a system like that being developed a decade or two ago, but I doubt that would fly today. Even if it did, it still lays the groundwork for it to be "upgraded" in the future. Just add a few more tables and columns to the database, for the children..

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Re: Is the sellout starting to form?

Post by trek45 » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:38 am

silencertalk wrote:Yes, NICS already provides a transaction ID. The proof that an individual did the check could be identical to the proof that a dealer has done a NICS check.
Not being a dealer, and not living in a state that uses NICS, I'm not terribly acquainted with it. Does the transaction ID connect it back to a buyer and a gun somehow? Or is it a sequential ID number, or does it follow a formula so it can be validated as a valid transaction ID, and nothing else (like determining the specifics of the transaction)?

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Post by Homer » Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:38 am

G'Day Fella's,

Here are a couple of links to some seriously scary news, for any True Democracy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tta1qhQZWSE

http://www.naturalnews.com/038844_DHS_a ... ments.html

http://www.westernjournalism.com/obama- ... -citizens/

Welcome to the United Nations, The New World Order, Globalisation/One World Government etc.....

Double Doh!!
Homer

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continuity
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Re: Is the sellout starting to form?

Post by continuity » Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:56 am

Libertarian_Geek wrote:...Enter the name, height, weight, home city and state. That's it...
Would be uncomfortable giving a complete stranger this info. Of course I'm as paranoid about personal stuff as anyone you'll meet. The hits on this general data will be pretty high. Wonder how many Bill Smith's reside or used to reside in any given population center? To get any kind of accuracy will need 2 of 3 additional data points.

1. physical address (I go to great lengths to disassociate myself from this info.)
2. date of birth (Uh, to some "dude" at a gunshow, or from Kragslist? I don't think so Tim...)
3. SSN (anyone care to send me this info... include pm with visa card number complete with the 3 digit on back please.)
Libertarian_Geek wrote:...It returns a simple pass or fail....
The requester may be limited to a simple "pass/fail" display, but the input data will be collected and placed in a data base by someone. Guaranteed.
What amount of a man is composed of his own collection of experiences... and the conclusions that those experiences have allowed him to "know" for certain as "Truth"? :Ick

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Re: Is the sellout starting to form?

Post by Historian » Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:10 am

An interesting tidbit of information.
The correlative information gathering, processing,
and extrapolation has progressed at lightning speed
over the past 20 years. Those that have had some
association with the field have already seen - 'farms'
of processors.

The sophisticated search engines using faceted search
( e.g. Endeca Technologies ) undergird
say Google and Government super fast data analyses and retrievals.
Thus, if one were to be crude (which I certainly am not) would
say there could be major CHINKS in the information armor.

"Mister Reese, I developed the system that is looking at
all of us all the time. When your number shows up ....
" - Mr. FInch

Wise advice given by an aunt to a now long departed physicist friend in Nova Scotia when Doc was a
child around 1905: "Never expect someone else to keep a secret you could not keep."

So, how many cans and arms do you have? Come on, stop being paranoid, it could never happen
here. And if you do get permission to roll your own stamp each piece and record them. :) :)

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Re: Is the sellout starting to form?

Post by slickster81 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:32 pm

continuity wrote:
Libertarian_Geek wrote:...Enter the name, height, weight, home city and state. That's it...
Would be uncomfortable giving a complete stranger this info. Of course I'm as paranoid about personal stuff as anyone you'll meet. The hits on this general data will be pretty high. Wonder how many Bill Smith's reside or used to reside in any given population center? To get any kind of accuracy will need 2 of 3 additional data points.

1. physical address (I go to great lengths to disassociate myself from this info.)
2. date of birth (Uh, to some "dude" at a gunshow, or from Kragslist? I don't think so Tim...)
3. SSN (anyone care to send me this info... include pm with visa card number complete with the 3 digit on back please.)
Libertarian_Geek wrote:...It returns a simple pass or fail....
The requester may be limited to a simple "pass/fail" display, but the input data will be collected and placed in a data base by someone. Guaranteed.

All excellent arguments and points. One thing I think we may be neglecting is that a background check does not include mental health status unless it has been made public record, i.e. via conviction for a crime.

So in actuality a background check, which is what the public hue and cry is demanding, is worthless for keeping firearms out of the hands of the mentally compromised. Again a subject of the general alarm and justification for said background checks.

It would require the HIPAA (Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act) act be reversed. Then your health care provider (doesn't even have to be a mental health provider) can submit your PHI (Protected Health Information) to "the database". I work in a health care anti-fraud unit. Getting medical records now is difficult, and you have to SHOW justifiable cause for the requests. That is directly thanks to HIPAA. HIPAA goes...so does your privacy with regards to your medical records. Bye bye....

Nuh uh.....not a chance....even if you are in perfect mental health. What if you get an anti-firearms provider, who as a matter of course decides to note "mild depression without complications". Meaning "seems a little depressed, but I have no clue as to why". Too subjective.

Even IF, (big IF) your mental health records are available in "the database". Who the hell is going to interpret them? You gonna have ole' Hiram of Hiram's Gunz - n - Bait reading it over and making a determination of your mental health status and ability to own a firearm or not?

This stuff has me worried on so many levels it isn't funny....Pandora's Box worried.

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Re: Is the sellout starting to form?

Post by renegade » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:49 pm

L1A1Rocker wrote:Behind the histrionics, a consensus is forming on universal background checks
Behind the histrionics, a consensus is forming on universal background checks

Members of the group, which includes Republicans Tom Coburn of Oklahoma. . .
They are just taking their lead from gun owners who are giving up before the fight has started.

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Re: Is the sellout starting to form?

Post by lilfuzzybuny » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:56 pm

anyone else realize that, since (already) convicted fellons wouldnt be able to find a patsy, they would have to resort to stealing more frequently ? home break ins would (theoreticly) sky rocket.
smooth is learned, fast is practiced, precision is earned.

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continuity
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Re: Is the sellout starting to form?

Post by continuity » Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:36 pm

Worried that some stinking poll on whether you believe in angels could be used to determine mental stability.
What amount of a man is composed of his own collection of experiences... and the conclusions that those experiences have allowed him to "know" for certain as "Truth"? :Ick

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continuity
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Re: Is the sellout starting to form?

Post by continuity » Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:40 pm

Historian wrote:...The sophisticated search engines using faceted search
( e.g. Endeca Technologies ) undergird
say Google and Government super fast data analyses and retrievals.
...Come on, stop being paranoid, it could never happen
here. ...
Don't worry, They don't use Huey's anymore, so you'll never hear them coming.
What amount of a man is composed of his own collection of experiences... and the conclusions that those experiences have allowed him to "know" for certain as "Truth"? :Ick

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Re: Is the sellout starting to form?

Post by DesertRat » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:54 pm

Don't think for a minute that they would give us lowly consumers access to NICS.

The whole push for universal background checks is to force all transfers through an FFL so that there is a 4473 associated with each and every transfer, much like what is the case currently in Commiefornia.

It may not be registration, but it's close enough for those who would disarm us.
Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank.
Give a man a bank and he can rob the entire world.

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Re: Is the sellout starting to form?

Post by GoodOlDave » Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:19 pm

-M- wrote:+1000, don't give an inch. Universal background checks will not solve mass shootings or any shootings. We should be taking freedom back, not giving it up. Once its done, it will never be un-done.
THIS! This whole nonsense came out in response to the Sandy Hook shooting in connecticut, and since (I believe) 1998 all firearms sold through retail require what is called a DPS form 3 filled out at the point of sale. This registers the gun right as you buy it.

The rifles used in the Sandy Hook shooting was registered exactly like this, which is how the police were able to trace it so quickly. That didn't help those children much, did it?

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