Silencer boosters explained

[Fireman1291]

I took my time with this video and spent a lot of time to edit it. Thoughts?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuolzG_nJ5c

[ACKF]

Great video. I enjoyed it. thanks

[Fireman1291]

glad you did!

[Fireman1291]

reuploaded original video

[Schulze]

I only watched to 2:35.

Your explanation is full of errors and spreads misinformation. You stated the reason for the piston is because of the tilt of the barrel. That is wrong. Please draw yourself a free body diagram of the forces acting on the piston and the answer will become evident.

You stated that the expanding gases behind the blast baffle compress the spring of the piston. This is wrong. The significant forces compressing the piston spring have already done their job at this point. It is also sad to see you point to the holes behind the piston when stating this because the higher pressure gas would reach that area first and counteract the movement of the piston. It is completely nonsensical to say such a thing.

Again, if you want to argue, please present a free body diagram of the forces acting on the piston.

[Fireman1291]

Please explain how it works then. Thanks for being a dick without watching the entire video.

[doubloon]

In my somewhat limited understanding it's a two part process.

First the spring allows the barrel to move without moving the suppressor, it is the recoil of the barrel that first compresses the spring by pulling itself away from the suppressor. A body at rest tends to stay at rest.

Then the piston redirects some of the gas to increase (boost) the recoil but it is not the gas alone that moves the barrel, the gas does not provide all the energy required to cycle the action. This increased or boosted recoil provides additional energy to improve the reliability of the mechanism.

This is, of course, a non-authoritative opinion based on absolutely no expertise and some reading after the last time this topic generated a debate in which I was steadfastly of the opinion the piston provided the initial energy to unlock the barrel.

[bigbigpig]

I always thought this video was neat to show how boosters work. Watch at the 1:00 mark you can see it up close. The spring doesn't cause the silencer to jam backwards until the slide is already back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3scw5y_p ... A&index=17

[doubloon]

Watched the video from the OP, in Shulze's defense (as much as it pains me and as little as he needs it ) you were done talking about how boosters worked at 2:35 and just doing shooting exercises after 2:35.

Critiques ... entirely without any expertise to back them up.

Video shooting suppressed 22 doesn't really add anything to the booster lesson for me and just seems like it would be confusing to people who don't know what they're supposed to be watching. By the time the video gets to the freeze frame my mind has already wandered off topic.

If you cut everything out except the freeze frame with the bolt open noting that the barrel and suppressor are fixed while only the bolt moves I think it would be a big improvement over watching the random firing multiple shots downrange. Same thing for the boosted pistols.

I find the rewind effects unnecessary.

Overall, two minutes of information and 7 minutes of random shooting with rewind effects from multiple viewpoints seems out of balance to me. I'd much rather watch two minutes of information followed by 30 seconds or so of super-slo-mo demonstration of a few shots highlighting the specific operation of each device. I lost interest in watching the shooting exercises during the second rewind segment.

I kept watching to the end but all I really remember is a bunch of shots being fired with no actual information being presented. By the time it got to the end I mostly forgot what you said in the first part of the video.

If you cut it down to the information segment followed by a few annotated freeze frame shots I don't think you'd need the two part disclaimer up front that says the how-to ends at 2:37.

[doubloon]

I always thought this video was neat to show how boosters work. Watch at the 1:00 mark you can see it up close. The spring doesn't cause the silencer to jam backwards until the slide is already back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3scw5y_p ... A&index=17

I like that video.

Crap ... that's one of Robert's videos

[bigbigpig]

I always thought this video was neat to show how boosters work. Watch at the 1:00 mark you can see it up close. The spring doesn't cause the silencer to jam backwards until the slide is already back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3scw5y_p ... A&index=17

I like that video.

Crap ... that's one of Robert's videos

Does it surprise you that he has a high speed camera?

[Fireman1291]

Thx for the feedback. Ill take everyone's advice and tweak future videos.

[Schulze]

Please explain how it works then. Thanks for being a dick without watching the entire video.

Free body diagram? The pics aren't loading for me....

The LID allows the recoil operated slide to gain enough momentum to unlock, tilt the barrel, etc.... ALL force needed to compress the spring is imparted by the rearward motion of the barrel/slide in reaction to the forward acceleration of the bullet. Pull on your silencer and try to wiggle the piston. It doesn't move. So how would it isolate the weight of the silencer along that axis? It doesn't. It doesn't need to. The gun isn't fixed in position, so instead of the tilting barrel lifting the can, it depresses the front of the gun in your hand.

The expanding gas in the blast chamber does nothing to aid this process. If you believe it does, please point out the surfaces you believe the gas pressure is acting upon. The passages in the piston you see are to maximize volume for sound performance reasons.

[Fireman1291]

Please explain how it works then. Thanks for being a dick without watching the entire video.

Free body diagram? The pics aren't loading for me....

The LID allows the recoil operated slide to gain enough momentum to unlock, tilt the barrel, etc.... ALL force needed to compress the spring is imparted by the rearward motion of the barrel/slide in reaction to the forward acceleration of the bullet. Pull on your silencer and try to wiggle the piston. It doesn't move. So how would it isolate the weight of the silencer along that axis? It doesn't. It doesn't need to. The gun isn't fixed in position, so instead of the tilting barrel lifting the can, it depresses the front of the gun in your hand.

The expanding gas in the blast chamber does nothing to aid this process. If you believe it does, please point out the surfaces you believe the gas pressure is acting upon. The passages in the piston you see are to maximize volume for sound performance reasons.

Seeing as neilson devices were born from the vickers machine gun recoil booster I think we are both right. You're explanation makes sense but how can you say that gas pressure has nothing to do with it. If this were so then a can that was improperly attached would not fly down range without a baffle stack strike. We all know they can fly several feet without a bullet striking a baffle. Not to mention, in the freeze frame you can clearly see gas escaping the piston area on the USP. Compared to the other leakge in that freeze frame you can tell the gas is under extreme pressure. I'm betting the reward linear movment of the barrel and gas is how it decouples.

[Fireman1291]

I always thought this video was neat to show how boosters work. Watch at the 1:00 mark you can see it up close. The spring doesn't cause the silencer to jam backwards until the slide is already back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3scw5y_p ... A&index=17

Wow! Great video! That clearly shows the recoil compressing the spring. Its confusing as a recoil booster on a machine gun uses both the recoil of the barrel AND the back pressure in the recoil booster. Yet it seems the silencer doesn't. One way to test it out would be to build a solid suppresser without baffles. Like a fake can but with a functioning booster section. Thoughts?

[doubloon]

..
The expanding gas in the blast chamber does nothing to aid this process. If you believe it does, please point out the surfaces ...

People probably have that impression because every piece of documentation out there by everyone who makes or sells them wants you to believe the expanding gases provide the energy to compress the spring.

Obviously the part you're looking for is the little umbrella inside every silencer.

http://www.advanced-armament.com/FAQs_ep_41-1.html#54

20) What are boosters and Nielsen Devices? 10/22/2012
...
As the projectile enters into the silencer, the expanding gasses behind it impact the baffles. As the baffles slow, redirect, and cool the gases, the pressure behind them force the silencer forward, like the wind hitting an umbrella you are carrying. This momentarily relieves the weight on the end of the barrel, giving the barrel enough time to unlock and cycle reliability, before the action spring snaps the silencer back into place, ready for the next shot.
...

[doubloon]

... One way to test it ...

Another way to test it might be to lock the slide and put the gun in a vice then super-slo-mo a shot with the suppressor on. If the slide and the gun are not allowed to move you'll see exactly how much force the gas exerts on the piston.

[Vesper]

As always, great vid! I actually referenced it to a friend, explaining the booster essembly to him. Until this video, I didn't know what the browning mechanism was by name.

Keep the vids coming...

[Fireman1291]

Heres a thought. If gas had absolutely nothing to do with it, then why is it bad to run a boostered can on a fixed barrel? The can will jackhammer on the end of a fixed barrel due to the gas, not recoil. Im sticking with recoil on a browning action and gas it the true explanation.

[doubloon]

Even a fixed barrel firearm will recoil.

[kaotic504]

I think I will continue to get my explanation from the Pro's: http://www.advanced-armament.com/20-Wha ... df_54.html

[Loki_stormbringer]

I think I will continue to get my explanation from the Pro's: http://www.advanced-armament.com/20-Wha ... df_54.html

Thought that's what his video said / described. Which would put the people calling him stupid and a liar just that.

I liked the video even if it did draw on a little

**edit**
Was a late night post. Read again and no one called him stupid or a liar.
My apologies.

[doubloon]

I think I will continue to get my explanation from the Pro's: http://www.advanced-armament.com/20-Wha ... df_54.html

Thought that's what his video said / described. Which would put the people calling him stupid and a liar just that.

I liked the video even if it did draw on a little

The only place I see any name calling is in your post.

Who are all these people calling him these names?

[Loki_stormbringer]

I think I will continue to get my explanation from the Pro's: http://www.advanced-armament.com/20-Wha ... df_54.html

Thought that's what his video said / described. Which would put the people calling him stupid and a liar just that.

I liked the video even if it did draw on a little

The only place I see any name calling is in your post.

Who are all these people calling him these names?

You are correct. Read again and edited my post. My apologies.

[doubloon]

No offense taken by me, Shulze came down pretty hard on the technical description. Some might say perhaps a bit more harsh than was necessary. I'm not saying I disagree with that but even though his post on the video was predominantly negative I didn't see the need to color it any more brutal than it already was

The technical description in the video is about as close to anything else I've read from all the experts that's why my feedback was more about streamlining the video to keep it focused on the topic and a little less about "watch me shoot my gun" but then that's just my personal opinion on what I like to see in "how it works" type videos. The OP has already published quite a few videos of himself and friends shooting various devices at various targets so I was just looking for something different this time.