Subsonic Hunting Rifle Considerations

[Fulmen]

You're right, a few is not "plenty". And they ARE pricey, no question there.

[quickdraw]

Thanks to all that have replied. Your responses are very helpful.

If the NC legislation goes through, I think I'm going to get a 77/44. Bullets are already expanded and already designed to expand further at subsonic velocities. Most deer aren't going far if they are hit well with a 1 oz piece of lead!

I do think I will wind up with a 300 blackout for fun. Maybe just the Handi Rifle (could easily get other barrels) or the 700!

Thanks,
QD

[r]

besides the lehigh and outlaw state there is the 250 grain RN Hawk bullets in 308. sounds like some here say a 1:10 308 don't work with 220/240 yet i am doing 240 with a SWR Omega 300 can which is one of the longest 30cal cans out there, without strikes on a handi-rifle with trail boss. at 1050-1075 ft/sec a 240 makes a hell of a crack when hitting a deer's hide. and the way the outlaws open up deer don't go nowhere.
a 357 handi-rifle with any 9mm can will do good too, from horn 180 xtp up to penn state 230 grain flying brick all can be excellent subsonics for hunting.
my 77/44 is a silent destroyer that eats 265-310 pills, so can't relate to a 44 with a thread on can.
instead of a 300BLK we are using 308 x 1.5" Barnes in bolt action, with 240SMK and NOE 247 cast

[Fulmen]

some here say a 1:10 308 don't work with 220/240 yet i am doing 240

I don't think anyone has claimed that it can't work, only that there isn't any guarantee. There's nothing wrong with trying if you already have a gun, but building a rifle for those bullet weights with a 1:10 doesn't make any sense. Why do you think the trend is moving from 1:8 towards 1:7? Even with a 1:8 there seems to be a slight chance you won't stabilize things like 240SMK properly.

[Bird]

I'm shooting a Savage Axis SR in .308 with a 20" barrel 1:10 twist and AAC Cyclone K. Subsonic handload for pig hunting is:
Trimmed to 2.005"
Primer pocket reamed and flash hole deburred
Federal large magnum rifle primer
13.75 grains Trailboss powder
Sierra 220 grain round nose
COAL 2.778" which leaves 0.015" bullet jump in my Savage
1060 fps muzzle velocity avg, 549 ft/lbs energy
MOA shooter at 50 yards

The 180 grain RN's are more accurate but lose almost 100 ft/lbs of energy compared to the 220's.

[Fulmen]

1:10 twist ... Sierra 220 grain round nose ... MOA shooter at 50 yards ... The 180 grain RN's are more accurate

Even unstable bullets can group fine at 50y, personally I've shot nice groups that showed clear signs of keyholing at that range. The fact that 180s are more accurate can suggest that the 220's aren't stable enough, but if you only use it for short range hunting it shouldn't matter. And don't forget that it's not really about weight but length, and 220SMKs are 0.2" longer than the RN you are using.

I'm not trying to nitpick thing to pieces here, I just find the 1:10-recomendations for subs a bit misleading. I hate to see somebody building a rifle intended for long/heavy bullets with a 1:10 barrel based on a misunderstanding.

[Bird]

Nitpick away. Ultimately, we are doing something that the .308 cartridge was never designed to do. Every bit of info we can figure out is a step forward. I do believe that there are much better cartridges for subsonic hunting than .308 but it's availability and versatility makes is a good choice for me, over having a custom rifle chambered in wildcat caliber.

[rjacobs]

One of the guys on M4C(Orkan) ran stability numbers for me on 208 AMAX and 220 SMK's out of 10 twist .308.

He says at 1050FPS:
220g SMK: 1.38
208g AMAX: 1.20

He says 1.4 is considered about minimum with 2.0 being ideal.

[Fulmen]

Problem with such numbers are that they can't account for the variations in individual barrels. Don't ask my why they differ so much, I just know that they do.

[B3dlam]

I have a R700 AAC-SD in .308 that I picked up with the intention of hunting after mating it with my Thunderbeast 30P-1. I think I will likely shell out the cash for the LeHigh subsonics. They are pricey but the way I look at it even if I took the max of 3~ deer per year here in AK 50 projectiles is going to last me quite a while.

[Fulmen]

That's pretty much my sentiment as well. They might be twice as expensive as the already not-so-cheap Barnes I would use in 222, but I won't go bankrupt over it. Most of my shooting will be with cheaper HPBTs anyway.

[Deja vu]

Not a bolt but its still plenty accurate even at 150 yards. Once I get the trajectory down I can hit a paper plate every time at 300 yards (it takes a few shots to get it dialed in)



Here is mine. 45-70 Govt. Shooting 500 grain bullets subsonic and still has about 1000 foot pounds of energy at 150 yards.

[Fulmen]

BTW, you should look out for the bullets LH are working on, I've seen some quite promising prototypes. ~200grs copper with a deep hollow point and 4 pre-split petals.

[SRM]

Not a bolt but its still plenty accurate even at 150 yards. Once I get the trajectory down I can hit a paper plate every time at 300 yards (it takes a few shots to get it dialed in)



Here is mine. 45-70 Govt. Shooting 500 grain bullets subsonic and still has about 1000 foot pounds of energy at 150 yards.

looks nice! what can is that?

[bani]

Here is mine. 45-70 Govt. Shooting 500 grain bullets subsonic and still has about 1000 foot pounds of energy at 150 yards.

love those marlin 1895sbl lever actions. one of my friends has one, beautiful stock. and 45-70 is a great thumper round!

what suppressor?

[will36]

I have killed many a deer and hogs with my set up. H&R single shot in 7.62x39. I load 310 dia. British 303 180gr soft point bullets with a magnum primer &10 grains of trailboss. The 10 grains of trailboss will fill the case and when you seat the bullet it will compress it so there is no need for fillers or worries about a flash over. It is so quiet off a sandbag you can hear the barrel "ring" .

[martineta]

I don't know what all is out there but I can tell you the 225 and 220 gr .308 bullets Outlaw State makes do as advertised. I just ordered my third batch from them. I dont plink with them as they do cost but I love hunting them. Every deer I have shot in the last 4 years with outlaw state bullets either fell over dead or ran less than 50 yds. bullets are the cheapest part of a hunt. I'll keep on using them becauce they work. End of story.