First post, really weird question

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Bronze John
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First post, really weird question

Post by Bronze John »

Hello to all,
This is my first post here, thanks for any and all replies.

First off - I'm not looking to make a silencer or anything like that. My understanding is pretty much illegal everywhere here (in Australia) and I wouldn't have the first idea how to do this kind of thing or much use for it if I did. I have just started pistol-shooting and I love it.

But I am writing a book (it's a crime story and the hero is an ambulance driver who makes a split-second bad decision and gets caught up in some bad stuff) and I don't want to make a fool of myself.

So - my hero has a gun - a Sig Sauer p226x5, 9mm, not the one with the extended threaded barrel. He has one chance to pick off the bad guy before things get out of hand. He will do better if he can make a silencer, and he's got about three days to do it.

So what I've said is that he's got some polypropylene tubing, about the same inner and outer diameter as the diameter of the barrel of the gun and glued a few cm worth of it end-on to the end of the barrel.

And he's got a slightly larger diameter tube that he's cut in half lengthways and put some home-made cardboard washers into at regular intervals of a few cm and then glued back together. I didn't know if it would be better to go with cardboard or some kind of rubber. He got the tube from a hardware store.

And he's joined the two up with a cap and a lot of duct tape and that's it.

My own feeling is that this would be a terrible thing to do to a gun, and it would be amateurish, and it would probably be single-use, but it might dull down the noise a bit, and it might be better than nothing and it might not blow up in his face. I don't know if this would work at all because of the action of the p226 - it might work better on something where you could just tape the silencer to the barrel of the gun, but he does not have that kind of gun and has no way of getting one quickly.

What does anyone here reckon? If you read that would it sound like the kind of thing a reasonably competent man would do? Or am I missing something obvious? The actual amount of detail isn't as important to me as not making some kind of stupid mistake that anyone who knows about this kind of stuff can pick up.

Thanks for any and all help and sorry if this has been asked before.

Sandy
Tony M.
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Re: First post, really weird question

Post by Tony M. »

He would be better off holding a pillow in front of the gun.

Gluing the tubing to the end of the barrel, because of the small contact that it would have, it's unlikely the attachment would support its own weight, let alone survive being carried and fired. If somehow everything held up to the moment of firing, the whole thing would become a projectile, most likely sending the bullet off target, and likely without doing much of anything to quiet the gun.

If the use of that particular firearm is crucial to the story line, and you can't add a threaded barrel, there's just not really an easy way to attach anything to it without the access to tools that would negate the need to make a cardboard silencer in the first place.
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Re: First post, really weird question

Post by Historian »

Following up on Tony M.'s line of solution:


Tear arm off heavy goose down parker; tie off end of sleeve;
put arm with arm into into the sleeve. The protagonist now
can aim naturally at the antagonist's base of the neck for instant
'termination'. Sound deadened while aim is natural and multiple shots can be taken.

Hot ejected brass might sting but your 'Mike Hammer' relishes the pain.
to atone for many never to be forgotten sins.

Also, there are heavy quilted drawstring insulated bags, 1' long, that are used
to keep telephoto lenses or detectors warm and protected. Hand and weapon placed
inside, draw string pulled, report dramatically reduced, ejected cases
enclosed ( leaving no brass to be found ), easy to aim, etc.

The above would work even better using a .22. Less of a report, one must
conjecture,

Other ideas not for public distribution.

Good luck. Tell us when book is published.
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Capt. Link.
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Re: First post, really weird question

Post by Capt. Link. »

I would have to go with the classic oil filter.
But I question defining your character a hero if he commits a murder that is premeditated.It would keep your hero's reputation better if the death was defensive in nature possibly using the bad guys weapon.Murder is murder and no hero would ever do that!
The only reason after 243 years the government now wants to disarm you is they intend to do something you would shoot them for!
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Re: First post, really weird question

Post by Libertarian_Geek »

Capt. Link. wrote:I would have to go with the classic oil filter.
But I question defining your character a hero if he commits a murder that is premeditated.It would keep your hero's reputation better if the death was defensive in nature possibly using the bad guys weapon.Murder is murder and no hero would ever do that!
What about "The Punisher?" He'd premeditate some serious s--t on the bad guy(s).

@Historian... wouldn't your pillow scenario risk a stove-pipe due to blocked ejection? If only one shot is necessary, then it's a moot point.

Regarding the P226 and the oil filter approach... doesn't the P226 have a moving barrel? If so, then it would only be useful for one shot before manually cycling it due to the weight on the muzzle. Again, follow-up shots may be moot.

Something with a fixed barrel (like a Beretta 92) would allow for multiple shots. Just stuff to think about for use as additional plot devices.
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Capt. Link.
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Re: First post, really weird question

Post by Capt. Link. »

Libertarian_Geek wrote:
Capt. Link. wrote:I would have to go with the classic oil filter.
But I question defining your character a hero if he commits a murder that is premeditated.It would keep your hero's reputation better if the death was defensive in nature possibly using the bad guys weapon.Murder is murder and no hero would ever do that!
What about "The Punisher?" He'd premeditate some serious s--t on the bad guy(s).

@Historian... wouldn't your pillow scenario risk a stove-pipe due to blocked ejection? If only one shot is necessary, then it's a moot point.

Regarding the P226 and the oil filter approach... doesn't the P226 have a moving barrel? If so, then it would only be useful for one shot before manually cycling it due to the weight on the muzzle. Again, follow-up shots may be moot.

Something with a fixed barrel (like a Beretta 92) would allow for multiple shots. Just stuff to think about for use as additional plot devices.
I know anti-hero's are popular.To keep the technical elements correct he could rip off the suppressed gun from a collector friend of war memorabilia. How about a Welrod that the collector used during a mission that killed the villains father so you have a loop and heroic gun!
The only reason after 243 years the government now wants to disarm you is they intend to do something you would shoot them for!
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Re: First post, really weird question

Post by pneumagger »

PVC centerfire pistol silencer would probably make a great schrapnel grenade on the end of a barrel. Might as well just stick a potato on it. If you're looking for super simple, our hero needs to go to an automotive parts store and get the following inexpensive items:

12" piece of straight exhaust pipe
20 steel freeze plugs with OD = to pipe ID
1/2-28" threaded standoff or nut
half-round bastard file
hacksaw or dremel
7/16" (.4375") Drill Bit
5/8" (.6250") Drill bit
Size 'S' (.3480") Dril Bit
Sharpening stone or diamond sharpening block
1" steel ball bearing
Masking tape or aluminum tape
Drill press or hand drill and a vise
Access to a hobby welder

Your hero is going to hacksaw the exhaust pipe to the desired length (8" should suffice). Then he'll use the file to smooth the weld seam inside the pipe. Take a dozen or so of the freeze plugs, center punch at the very center (apex) of the convex side, stack the ball bearing on top of the punch mark, place both in the vise, and "squish" the freeze plug sort of inside out. INext, use your 7/16" drill bit and drill a *perfectly* centered hole in these freeze plugs. Congratulations, he now has baffles and a tube. Use the 5/8" and 7/16" bits to center drill two more freeze plugs; one each... now you have endcaps. Weld the 7/16" endcap into the "exit" end of the pipe and then stuff the baffle freeze plugs into the back of the tube in the same orientation. Next weld the 5/8" endcap into the other end of the pipe. You now hve the body/core of the silencer - it might be worth running/reaming the 7/16" drill all the way into each end just to make sure the bore path for the bullet is going to be straight (if you center the baffle holes perfectly).

Here's the tricky part: Lining up the bore to the barrel. Remove the barrel from the gun and thread the nut or standoff onto the barrel. carefully chuck the "S" (.3480") drill bit into the drill backwards and spin it while lightly running the sharpening stone up and down the shank of the bit. You only want to concentrically remove .001"-.002" from the shank of the drill so that it will snugly fit into the 9mm (.3472" land diameter) barrel - hence the reason for working the sharpening stone up and down the shank as the drill spins it. Once sized right, the shank of the "S" bit will fit into the barrel and act like a bore gauge showing you a straight/true borepath into the suppressor... stick the shank in the barrel. *Evenly* wrap masking tape around the entire exposed portion of the "S" bit until the tape almost does not fit through the 7/16" baffle holes. Insert the barrel with the 1/2"-28 nut installed tightlyall the way up to the back cap of the suppressor and clamp it in place so you can weld the nut/standof to the back cap. You'll likely have some warping after cooling; if so just grab the silencer and barrel and gently bend the bores inline again. Visually Check for barrel-bore concentricity.

The gun will likely not eject a spent casing or load a new one with too much extra weight hanging off the barrel. Your character will have to hand cycle the pistol after every shot. This is not uncommon for silencers (even factory made) lacking a more sophisticated inertial decoupling device or recoil booster... it's a "single shot" repeating pistol, your plot will likely have to live with this fact unless the character has access to well equipped metalworking shop and great design skills.
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Historian
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Re: First post, really weird question

Post by Historian »

Libertarian_Geek wrote:
Capt. Link. wrote:I would have to go with the classic oil filter.
But I question defining your character a hero if he commits a murder that is premeditated.It would keep your hero's reputation better if the death was defensive in nature possibly using the bad guys weapon.Murder is murder and no hero would ever do that!
What about "The Punisher?" He'd premeditate some serious s--t on the bad guy(s).

@Historian... wouldn't your pillow scenario risk a stove-pipe due to blocked ejection? If only one shot is necessary, then it's a moot point.

Regarding the P226 and the oil filter approach... doesn't the P226 have a moving barrel? If so, then it would only be useful for one shot before manually cycling it due to the weight on the muzzle. Again, follow-up shots may be moot.

Something with a fixed barrel (like a Beretta 92) would allow for multiple shots. Just stuff to think about for use as additional plot devices.
Excellent observation! I did not include an easy way to make a quick cage
from coiled copper 1/4" diameter that is easily shaped into a 'tunnel-stint'.

Back in 1960's I used to un-load my Leica & NIKON camera cassettes containing
rolls of exposed TRI-X film or my 4x5 film holders for my SINAR-P into a change bag. I still have the change bag
and the copper cube that I built for daylight loading the exposed film onto Nikkor reels in the bag,
hands in outside sleeves in an arrangement like sand blasting box. I overcame the common 'sweaty hands'
syndrome that having the bag being floppy.


Like the basic 3 Kata, it takes years for the student to derive what is in them so you
cannot reveal everything in an answer. :)


Best.
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Re: First post, really weird question

Post by Libertarian_Geek »

Suppressed .22LR zip gun.
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doubloon
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Re: First post, really weird question

Post by doubloon »

My only issue with the oil filter, PVC and what not is how to even remotely attach it to what is effectively no barrel.

Besides the pillow about the only thing I could think of that would be remotely effective is basically the same thing as a gunsmith's shooting box but small enough to be hand held.

Essentially a coffee can with baffles ... or maybe the muffler off a rice rocket.
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Re: First post, really weird question

Post by Bronze John »

Thanks a lot for the replies - I reckon you lot have told me what I would either never have known or have had to spend years working out.

I really appreciate this and will keep everyone informed.
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Re: First post, really weird question

Post by BISHOP »

To keep it legal and ambiquious...

"He grabbed the device that was fabricated from fender washers, window screen and layers of duct tape". The tubes can be from plumbing stores or from flashlights.


ALL OF THE PROFESSIONALS here missed the obvious in giving the secrets to new guys...DUH!


BISOP
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Re: First post, really weird question

Post by Historian »

BISHOP wrote:To keep it legal and ambiquious...

"He grabbed the device that was fabricated from fender washers, window screen and layers of duct tape". The tubes can be from plumbing stores or from flashlights.


ALL OF THE PROFESSIONALS here missed the obvious in giving the secrets to new guys...DUH!


BISOP
Could the 'non-Professional' be giving scenarios that have actually been realized in
the context of spur of the moment necessity as contrasted to cobbled implausibility?

" ... and finding next to a skate board a working lawn mower engine, drum from an old washer, and fifty rolls
of duct tape in the garage of James Bondage he made himself an Aston Martin clone for his getaway." :lol:
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Re: First post, really weird question

Post by Historian »

Running across eBay another semi-realistic idea brought to mind for for our
detective protagonist to start his construction: "Sinar 4x5 6" or 12" Extension Rail Monorail."


The rotating red end can be unscrewed using a deep socket on the nut in the
other end. You discover that the rail is made from a really thick walled heavy
duty aluminum tube with a SS spine, the rail has around one inch bored out on both sides to fit onto another
monorail. In the SINAR book these rails were shown assembled into an over a 5' rigid optical
bench ... Erector Set for large format.

<< http://www.cameramanuals.org/prof_pdf/sinar-01.pdf >>
<< http://www.cameramanuals.org/prof_pdf/sinar_code.pdf >>

It is pretty, at least and would be flashy on the dust cover. Reminiscent of the 1940's
Signet Books Detective novels with the requisite sultry blonde in a silky slip - - Janet Leigh
style from Hitchcock's movie 'Psycho' -- with the Mike Hammer gum shoe holding his .45 with
a suppressor on it.

<< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jury_small.JPG >>
<< http://detectivebestsellers.com/books/a ... -spillane/ >>

You get the idea.
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Re: First post, really weird question

Post by armalite_ar50 »

Tom Clancy's WITHOUT REMORSE.


Has John Clark whip out a home made can for a 45 acp with a 22 kit. and brass catcher.
Very detailed also.

Now if John Clark can pre meditate some wicked s--t on the bad guys and be a hero I think about anyone can.
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Re: First post, really weird question

Post by wacki »

There is a much easier way to do this.

Most modern pistols come with a rail at the bottom of the barrel. Use that rail to attach a pringles can or PVC pipe to the gun. That would be easy to do as mounts are sold everywhere. Use the "historian" trick and stuff a loaf of french bread (or steel wool) in the pringles can. Never tried it, but I'm guessing you should be good to go for 5 to 10 rounds. Throw in a little grease (about 5 cc's) for extra suppression.

Grab a new pringles can every time you swap out magazines. But if you need more than 3 shots you are in a firefight and you've lost your element of surprise.
Last edited by wacki on Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:15 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: First post, really weird question

Post by doubloon »

BISHOP wrote:...
ALL OF THE PROFESSIONALS here missed the obvious in giving the secrets to new guys...DUH!
...
Most of us noticed he was talking about an non-extended barrel with no threads.
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Re: First post, really weird question

Post by doubloon »

wacki wrote:...
Most modern pistols come with a rail at the bottom of the barrel.
....
Most of us also noticed he was talking about a specific gun with no rail.
http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductD ... -five.aspx

Image
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Re: First post, really weird question

Post by wacki »

Well rewrite the story so it's P226R. They are pretty common.

If it must be a pistol without any rails then you can use some metal glue (e.g. J-B Weld) and glue a picatinny rail to the bottom.
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Re: First post, really weird question

Post by wacki »

They even make stuff for this.

Add a rail for $40

http://railtac.com/semi-auto.html

I'm willing to bet a little epoxy filler + a chopped AR rail would work as well.


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Re: First post, really weird question

Post by Dr.K »

Hell, just write it so he finds a bow and some arrows. :lol:
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Re: First post, really weird question

Post by TROOPER »

Alternatively, your character could opt for something much, much larger suppression system. It is absurd, but in an act of desperation it might look like a good idea. How about a cardboard barrel or cardboard box with multiple pillows around the pistol, with maybe two in front, and a few on the sides of his hand? The idea being that he'd put his whole arm into it. Perhaps he could even have the gun inside of it already, and then reach in to retrieve whatever phony item is supposed to be inside, then quickly try to use the contraption.

Alternatively, if he had more time to cobble together a better example of the same concept, a very large PVC pipe - 8 inch diameter, perhaps - inside of a 12 inch diameter with insulation in the ~ inch between the two of them to dampen vibration and subsequent sound transference. Shooting through a big enough patch of insulation in the front might also dampen the sound. Even if the whole get-up made some noise at that point, it might not matter since it wouldn't really sound like a gunshot, and the increased internal space of the PVC probably would handle 9mm pressures just fine.

Cumbersome, bulky, impractical... yes.... but effective.
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Re: First post, really weird question

Post by Historian »

Dr.K wrote:Hell, just write it so he finds a bow and some arrows. :lol:
+1 :)

And they do sell 'silencers' for bow strings.
For those who are skeptical please look it up ...
and no waiting for BATF approval.

Following this creative path ... a sharped bicycle spoke.
Bikes everywhere. Pliers at any hardware. And give
the protagonist a past where he got training in unconventional warefare
and where he learned the Kyūsho (急所) points.

Also he then can heat the spoke red hot and drill/burn
through a wood dowel to make a blow gun from which he
can shot darts laced with ( --- )* on the tip.

Stop us before we spill again. :)


* These data you will have to ferret out yourself.
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Re: First post, really weird question

Post by doubloon »

Dr.K wrote:Hell, just write it so he finds a bow and some arrows. :lol:
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Re: First post, really weird question

Post by rogerme »

He is a ambulance driver have him build it out of a IV stand cotton balls and medical tape.
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