NFA Form Processing Update

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WarbirdsCustomGuns
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NFA Form Processing Update

Post by WarbirdsCustomGuns » Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:13 am

Just found out about this last week & it's making it's rounds.
Texas got screwed badly & now we have a new guy by the name of Jason Bowers who only has about 1 year of experience.
According to a Silencershop.com employee, Jason has screwed up many times & he's very slow to get anything done.
It's time for Texas to have 2 examiners but, that will never happen.

I talked to Linda at NFA on Monday morning.
She said F2 & F3 forms are now 90 days & F4 forms are 12 months :?


http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/0 ... ng-update/
And there are a few changes underway – Sara Jones who used to process all the forms for Texas has been promoted to a specialist position.

With the workload of Sara Jones being reassigned, the folks in Texas are going to be in for even longer waits.
Three new examiners have been hired and six more are in the queue. That will eventually lead to more efficient processing of forms. The three examiners who have been hired came from within ATF so they have regulatory experience and are presently reviewing and approving forms although not at the speed of their fully seasoned colleagues. The six more who are en route will be new to ATF so will take some time to fully get up to speed.
07/SOT2

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Wahnsinn
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Re: NFA Form Processing Update

Post by Wahnsinn » Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:19 am

I think the times she quoted you are for F3 at least are generic timetables that they spout. Silencer Shop will tell you that they're getting F3s back in 2 weeks.

F4s, that number is probably close to truth about now :lol:

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L1A1Rocker
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Re: NFA Form Processing Update

Post by L1A1Rocker » Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:12 am

Are you the same Warbirds Custom Guns that posted the following on the Fal Files?
Originally Posted by Warbirds Custom Guns View Post




Liberty uses obsolete Com Block monocore baffles which has been outdated by 50 years.
Monocore baffles don't protect the inside of the tube either & cleaning can be a nightmare.
You can have those welded up AAC cans too & good luck with their non existent repair dept. if you ever need it.
AAC is just a name like Remington.
Popular only because of mass advertising.
Oh & the number of problems they have had are to many to count.

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tsands974
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Re: NFA Form Processing Update

Post by tsands974 » Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:35 am

No, he's the other WarbirdsCustomGuns running around talking nonsense :wink: . I have had Jason Bowers sign a few of my Form 4s from 2011 on up, and the latest one has been 7 months. No problems whatsoever. Also, I have never had any Form 3s from Silencer Shop take longer than 2 weeks.

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KSmoker
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Re: NFA Form Processing Update

Post by KSmoker » Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:04 am

Jason's signed quite a few of mine from back in early 2011 too. I got my items back in above avg time from him too. I don't see the basis behind any of the claims.

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Re: NFA Form Processing Update

Post by WarbirdsCustomGuns » Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:46 am

Wahnsinn wrote:I think the times she quoted you are for F3 at least are generic timetables that they spout. Silencer Shop will tell you that they're getting F3s back in 2 weeks.

F4s, that number is probably close to truth about now :lol:
Linda said all F2's & F3's are 90 days not just F3's.
In fact, I have some F2's & F3's that have been pending for almost 2 months now.

As stated earlier, Silencershop told me exactly what I posted above.
Some dealers will quote shorter times to get people to buy, then play out the longer wait times because of "situations out of their control".
Been done for years & it's nothing new & it's bad business practice.
I've read on other forums about dealers complaining that they're loosing sales because people won't wait a year or more.
Believe what you want but, the smart buyers can read between the lines.



.




tsands974 wrote:No, he's the other WarbirdsCustomGuns running around talking nonsense :wink: . I have had Jason Bowers sign a few of my Form 4s from 2011 on up, and the latest one has been 7 months. No problems whatsoever. Also, I have never had any Form 3s from Silencer Shop take longer than 2 weeks.


KSmoker wrote:Jason's signed quite a few of mine from back in early 2011 too. I got my items back in above avg time from him too. I don't see the basis behind any of the claims.

Anyone with any brain cells left knows this is the year 2013 not 2011.
If you have proof show it I for one would love to see it.
Don't give some excuse about not knowing how to post a pic of the dates on your forms.
07/SOT2

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tsands974
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Re: NFA Form Processing Update

Post by tsands974 » Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:04 pm

I don't have my Form 4s with me so this will have to do until I can get to them...

Image

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L1A1Rocker
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Re: NFA Form Processing Update

Post by L1A1Rocker » Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:25 pm

WarbirdsCustomGuns wrote:
Anyone with any brain cells left knows this is the year 2013 not 2011.
If you have proof show it I for one would love to see it.
Don't give some excuse about not knowing how to post a pic of the dates on your forms.
You didn't answer me directly but the above response confirms it (for me at least).

I said over there that I had never heard of you before but that you had made a lasting first impression. That first impression is now confirmed.

Good luck in your business. But perhaps a better line of work might be a book of some sorts on how to win friends and influence people. Well, you've got that influencing people down pretty good.

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Re: NFA Form Processing Update

Post by Pman5KMO » Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:53 pm

I'm kinda glad that some people aren't buying right now, because that means you may just be able to get a handle on an item that was hard to get a handle on before.....

Supply and demand.... I also don't know of any dealers saying anything other than "was 6 now its 9+" But maybe because those dealers are no longer around....?

The delays will continue, until the process is brought 40 years up to date. Once they eliminate a bunch of the unnecessary bureaucratic BS involved (if they ever do, such as CLEO sign off, passport photos, and at least go livescan on fingerprinting) or frankly removed suppressors from NFA purview, then things will be much better.

In the past year and a half I have seen wait times go from 5 months, to nearly 9 months, and that last one was in June as well (made a wonderful wedding gift lmao).

Forms 2 and 3 go through waves, have seen some take months and others take weeks with no correlation to Form 4 times.

Form 4s have increased since the last election due to increased purchases.

Bowers did my last 2 and Clutter did my first 2.... I'm in MO. TX used to have their own examiner... from what I have seen on some tracking sites and forums, looks like the examiners are in total disarray, and like they are short a couple. I have seen 3 different examiners doing many various states, some far apart (one had approved TX and some PA forms.....) So who knows what all is going on at NFA branch, but at least be glad they are not as ate up as the VA.....
Suppressors cost less than hearing aids..

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tsands974
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Re: NFA Form Processing Update

Post by tsands974 » Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:59 pm

The purpose behind the references to 2011 by KSmoker and myself, were in response to you stating that Bowers was a new guy who had only been around for about a year. I'm pretty certain most people who are capable of typing are aware of what year this is, and your lack of discernment to figure out the intents of our responses on your own leads me to believe that you sir, are an idiot.

If you utilize the search tool on this forum you will also find references to Jason Bowers as peoples' processing agent back in 2011... FYI.

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Re: NFA Form Processing Update

Post by WarbirdsCustomGuns » Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:58 pm

tsands974 wrote:I don't have my Form 4s with me so this will have to do until I can get to them...Image
http://postimage.org/app.php
Looks like more of the typical "take my word for it" because you don't have proof.
If you did you would jump on the chance to do so.



L1A1Rocker wrote: You didn't answer me directly but the above response confirms it (for me at least).

I said over there that I had never heard of you before but that you had made a lasting first impression. That first impression is now confirmed.

Good luck in your business. But perhaps a better line of work might be a book of some sorts on how to win friends and influence people. Well, you've got that influencing people down pretty good.
We didn't confirm anything other than what we have in years of documentation as proof.
There's no need for idle chit chat that goes nowhere because people would rather be blind instead of educated.

It's also well documented that I'm well known not just in the U.S. but worldwide in 4 different areas of the firearms industry.
Most people in the biz never get past home plate, & something you obviously can't relate to as well.





tsands974 wrote:The purpose behind the references to 2011 by KSmoker and myself, were in response to you stating that Bowers was a new guy who had only been around for about a year. I'm pretty certain most people who are capable of typing are aware of what year this is, and your lack of discernment to figure out the intents of our responses on your own leads me to believe that you sir, are an idiot.

If you utilize the search tool on this forum you will also find references to Jason Bowers as peoples' processing agent back in 2011... FYI.
OK since near the end of 2011 maybe.
1 year or 2 makes no difference.
He's still new & has proven to me & other dealers I know that he's not up to par.

It's also well known that those who resort to acting like 10 year olds & name calling on the internet are not to be taken as "serious opinions" that have any level of credibility.
Sooooooo why don't you just move on down the road, grow up & get over it ?
You kids should go play somewhere & leave serious conversations to us adults.

In case "YOU" haven't noticed yet, I won't stoop to your gutter level by using childish insults. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I think it's also obvious that my skin is much thicker than yours so good luck acting like a 10 year old.
07/SOT2

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tsands974
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Re: NFA Form Processing Update

Post by tsands974 » Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:12 pm

Wow, you do realize you just contradicted yourself by posting a stupid picture supposed to insult me, and then saying you won't "stoop to my gutter level by using childish insults?" You aintt two smaart is u?

Even so, I will provide the signed Form 4 from Bowers in 2011 that seems so important to you when I get home, despite the fact you said it makes no difference how long he has been there when I proved that he had been with the ATF for more than a year... Another contradiction...

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Re: NFA Form Processing Update

Post by kaotic504 » Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:37 pm

Bowers was signing forms for Louisiana for a while and before that they went into a pool. I will take a pick of my approved forms with his signature and date.

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Re: NFA Form Processing Update

Post by oilfieldtrash76 » Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:14 pm

I picked up my can from silencershop last month. Approved by Bowers. Took right at 7 months. The can I bought last year was approved by Sara B Jones. Took 4 1/2 months. Not sure if its the examiner or just the normal backlog. Either way I forsee it getting much worse with the BS shutdown going on now. They will use that as an excuse to sit on the forms longer.
"Peace, That wonderful moment when everyone is standing around reloading!" Unknown

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Re: NFA Form Processing Update

Post by WarbirdsCustomGuns » Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:18 pm

tsands974 wrote:Wow, you do realize you just contradicted yourself by posting a stupid picture supposed to insult me, and then saying you won't "stoop to my gutter level by using childish insults?" You aintt two smaart is u?

Even so, I will provide the signed Form 4 from Bowers in 2011 that seems so important to you when I get home, despite the fact you said it makes no difference how long he has been there when I proved that he had been with the ATF for more than a year... Another contradiction...I am a internet expect therefore I am always right.
Not a contridiction & it suits you better than the pic you posted.
Now I know I need to spell it out for you kiddies.
I was refering to "verbal" insults but, I also understand that you will try to twist everything to benefit "YOU".
Next time I'll hold your hand..........................nah I'll pass.

AGAIN........this is 2013 not 2011.
Transfers done in 2011 have no bearing on transfer time now.
Only very recent transfers (say last 2-3 months) would show what transfer times are or may be.
Add shut down time on top of that.
AGAIN, I'm trying to spell it out for you since there's a lack of understanding on your part.

This thread is about current transfer times.
Since you are obviously hijacking why don't you just move on sown the road like a good boy should ?


oilfieldtrash76 wrote:I picked up my can from silencershop last month. Approved by Bowers. Took right at 7 months. The can I bought last year was approved by Sara B Jones. Took 4 1/2 months. Not sure if its the examiner or just the normal backlog. Either way I forsee it getting much worse with the BS shutdown going on now. They will use that as an excuse to sit on the forms longer.
7 months would be OK.
I have guys wanting silencers & won't wait a year.
I'm only going by what I'm told from NFA & 2-3 months for F2's & F3's is nonsense because my paperwork is always correct.
07/SOT2

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tsands974
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Re: NFA Form Processing Update

Post by tsands974 » Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:25 pm

You keep coming back for more, don't you? It's okay that you lost every argument you started here, so just give it up. Furthermore, from your uninformed posts on multiple forums (like L1A1 showed), and with you having around 20 posts on this forum, I tend to see you as more of the hijacker. I have been contributing here for a while, and I don't put out bullshit posts spreading disinformation. Carry on jackass

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Re: NFA Form Processing Update

Post by Pman5KMO » Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:36 pm

WarbirdsCustomGuns wrote:
tsands974 wrote:I don't have my Form 4s with me so this will have to do until I can get to them...Image
http://postimage.org/app.php
Looks like more of the typical "take my word for it" because you don't have proof.
If you did you would jump on the chance to do so.



L1A1Rocker wrote: You didn't answer me directly but the above response confirms it (for me at least).

I said over there that I had never heard of you before but that you had made a lasting first impression. That first impression is now confirmed.

Good luck in your business. But perhaps a better line of work might be a book of some sorts on how to win friends and influence people. Well, you've got that influencing people down pretty good.
We didn't confirm anything other than what we have in years of documentation as proof.
There's no need for idle chit chat that goes nowhere because people would rather be blind instead of educated.

It's also well documented that I'm well known not just in the U.S. but worldwide in 4 different areas of the firearms industry.
Most people in the biz never get past home plate, & something you obviously can't relate to as well.





tsands974 wrote:The purpose behind the references to 2011 by KSmoker and myself, were in response to you stating that Bowers was a new guy who had only been around for about a year. I'm pretty certain most people who are capable of typing are aware of what year this is, and your lack of discernment to figure out the intents of our responses on your own leads me to believe that you sir, are an idiot.

If you utilize the search tool on this forum you will also find references to Jason Bowers as peoples' processing agent back in 2011... FYI.
OK since near the end of 2011 maybe.
1 year or 2 makes no difference.
He's still new & has proven to me & other dealers I know that he's not up to par.

It's also well known that those who resort to acting like 10 year olds & name calling on the internet are not to be taken as "serious opinions" that have any level of credibility.
Sooooooo why don't you just move on down the road, grow up & get over it ?
You kids should go play somewhere & leave serious conversations to us adults.

In case "YOU" haven't noticed yet, I won't stoop to your gutter level by using childish insults. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I think it's also obvious that my skin is much thicker than yours so good luck acting like a 10 year old.

Ok you two kiss and make up now....

Like a couple that has been married 40 years.... JK :lol: :lol:

I can also attest to Bowers not being up to the level as Clutter or some of the others. He made a keystroke error, with the SN (claims a number looked like a letter....) even though the SN was written in big clear handwritten ink (like all my others do) by the RA when they came back for correction. When it got to my SOT dealer's I stopped by and it was dismal epic illiterate type failure..... However, that goes with any job that is such bureaucratic monotonous tedious BS that could easily be done on the local level, far quicker, and far cheaper.

Who cares about how long that the examiner is there, mistakes or no mistakes one more examiner is one more examiner, whatever it takes to get it done, sooner rather than later... because if we get more examiners in the NFA branch, we will have new examiners all over.

I get we all want to vent about the woes of any and everything, but no reason to get into an argument online, I mean it's like the special olympics.... you may win, but you're still just as :? .....
Suppressors cost less than hearing aids..

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Re: NFA Form Processing Update

Post by Pman5KMO » Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:44 pm

WarbirdsCustomGuns wrote:
tsands974 wrote:Wow, you do realize you just contradicted yourself by posting a stupid picture supposed to insult me, and then saying you won't "stoop to my gutter level by using childish insults?" You aintt two smaart is u?

Even so, I will provide the signed Form 4 from Bowers in 2011 that seems so important to you when I get home, despite the fact you said it makes no difference how long he has been there when I proved that he had been with the ATF for more than a year... Another contradiction...I am a internet expect therefore I am always right.
Not a contridiction & it suits you better than the pic you posted.
Now I know I need to spell it out for you kiddies.
I was refering to "verbal" insults but, I also understand that you will try to twist everything to benefit "YOU".
Next time I'll hold your hand..........................nah I'll pass.

AGAIN........this is 2013 not 2011.
Transfers done in 2011 have no bearing on transfer time now.
Only very recent transfers (say last 2-3 months) would show what transfer times are or may be.
Add shut down time on top of that.
AGAIN, I'm trying to spell it out for you since there's a lack of understanding on your part.

This thread is about current transfer times.
Since you are obviously hijacking why don't you just move on sown the road like a good boy should ?


oilfieldtrash76 wrote:I picked up my can from silencershop last month. Approved by Bowers. Took right at 7 months. The can I bought last year was approved by Sara B Jones. Took 4 1/2 months. Not sure if its the examiner or just the normal backlog. Either way I forsee it getting much worse with the BS shutdown going on now. They will use that as an excuse to sit on the forms longer.
7 months would be OK.
I have guys wanting silencers & won't wait a year.
I'm only going by what I'm told from NFA & 2-3 months for F2's & F3's is nonsense because my paperwork is always correct.

I know waiting on MFG to get the one rifle can I wanted made, and xferred to a dealer, and form 4 stamped took a total of a year, but that included a 6 month backlog from the MFG. I purchased a .45 can the moment the election results hit in 2012, was in stock out of state, had it form 3'd over to my local SOT. It took 3.5 weeks for that form 3. The rifle can took 6 weeks just a month prior to ordering the .45 can. I submitted the paperwork 4 days apart, and in the end they were 3 weeks apart in coming back. sometimes it's just crazy internal workings. They may promote one examiner, and shift the workload around, which means they will finish the box they are working on, then go to a partial box of what the other was working on. This is the erratic type stuff that skews the data about wait times.....

The govt cannot ignore such a source of income for nothing, though it seems like at times the examiners do just enough to pay the NFA branch' operating costs/expenses for the day.....
Suppressors cost less than hearing aids..

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Re: NFA Form Processing Update

Post by Bendersquint » Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:01 pm

Pman5KMO wrote: The govt cannot ignore such a source of income for nothing, though it seems like at times the examiners do just enough to pay the NFA branch' operating costs/expenses for the day.....
Are you insinuating that the pennies the gov gets for the transfers is a worthwhile income for them?

You are aware that the NFA Branch doesn't see the tax stamp funds right? They are funded through a seperate source.

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Re: NFA Form Processing Update

Post by JohnK454 » Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:20 pm

My last two eForm 2s were 2 days and 7 days. My first (last) eForm 3 was 28 days. All calendar days.

To be absolutely clear, this was using the new eForm system, NOT paper. As I understand, Pickles is doing all the eForms.

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Re: NFA Form Processing Update

Post by Bendersquint » Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:34 pm

JohnK454 wrote:My last two eForm 2s were 2 days and 7 days. My first (last) eForm 3 was 28 days. All calendar days.

To be absolutely clear, this was using the new eForm system, NOT paper. As I understand, Pickles is doing all the eForms.
Still waiting on some 2's to come back, taking alot longer than that for us. :(

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Re: NFA Form Processing Update

Post by WarbirdsCustomGuns » Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:45 pm

tsands974 wrote:You keep coming back for more, don't you? It's okay that you lost every argument you started here, so just give it up. Furthermore, from your uninformed posts on multiple forums (like L1A1 showed), and with you having around 20 posts on this forum, I tend to see you as more of the hijacker. I have been contributing here for a while, and I don't put out bullshit posts spreading disinformation. Carry on jackass
I didn't loose any argument & you know it so why don't you stop crying like a pissed on rug.
One thing I have noticed on all forums is that when someone uses the "you only have 20 posts" it's clear they know they lost the argument because they ran out of ammo.
I bet you're a barfcom member too !!!!!




Pman5KMO wrote: Ok you two kiss and make up now....

Like a couple that has been married 40 years.... JK :lol: :lol:

I can also attest to Bowers not being up to the level as Clutter or some of the others. He made a keystroke error, with the SN (claims a number looked like a letter....) even though the SN was written in big clear handwritten ink (like all my others do) by the RA when they came back for correction. .....
I would but I bet he slobbers to much & probably wouldn't keep his tongue to himself.
Nice to see confirmation about problems with Bowers.
Maybe over time he'll get better, only time will tell.




Bendersquint wrote:
JohnK454 wrote:My last two eForm 2s were 2 days and 7 days. My first (last) eForm 3 was 28 days. All calendar days.

To be absolutely clear, this was using the new eForm system, NOT paper. As I understand, Pickles is doing all the eForms.
Still waiting on some 2's to come back, taking alot longer than that for us. :(
In 2012 we got F2's & F3's back in 14 days mail box to mail box from Sara Jones & roughly the same time of year.
Now we are getting the slow boat to China & back.
07/SOT2

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Re: NFA Form Processing Update

Post by L1A1Rocker » Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:54 pm

WarbirdsCustomGuns wrote:
L1A1Rocker wrote: You didn't answer me directly but the above response confirms it (for me at least).

I said over there that I had never heard of you before but that you had made a lasting first impression. That first impression is now confirmed.

Good luck in your business. But perhaps a better line of work might be a book of some sorts on how to win friends and influence people. Well, you've got that influencing people down pretty good.
We didn't confirm anything other than what we have in years of documentation as proof.
There's no need for idle chit chat that goes nowhere because people would rather be blind instead of educated.

It's also well documented that I'm well known not just in the U.S. but worldwide in 4 different areas of the firearms industry.
Most people in the biz never get past home plate, & something you obviously can't relate to as well.

Actually, what's been confirmed is that you like to insult people on the internet, try to trash your competition, and feel the need to speak of how great you are.

You wouldn't have worked at a silencer company down in Corpus at some point have you?

Seriously, how do you expect to attract customers with such douche baggery antics on gun forums? I've concluded that you're just not too bright.

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Re: NFA Form Processing Update

Post by JohnK454 » Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:57 pm

JohnK454 wrote:My last two eForm 2s were 2 days and 7 days. My first (last) eForm 3 was 28 days. All calendar days.

To be absolutely clear, this was using the new eForm system, NOT paper. As I understand, Pickles is doing all the eForms.
In 2012 we got F2's & F3's back in 14 days mail box to mail box from Sara Jones & roughly the same time of year.
Now we are getting the slow boat to China & back.
The ones I mentioned above were Aug-Sept 2013.

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Re: NFA Form Processing Update

Post by WarbirdsCustomGuns » Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:30 pm

L1A1Rocker wrote: Actually, what's been confirmed is that you like to insult people on the internet, try to trash your competition, and feel the need to speak of how great you are.

You wouldn't have worked at a silencer company down in Corpus at some point have you?

Seriously, how do you expect to attract customers with such douche baggery antics on gun forums? I've concluded that you're just not too bright.
Sounds like you 2 are in a relationship but, that's considered normal these days & who am I to judge. :lol:
I'm on the other end of the state as anyone informed should know.
I rarely post on any forums so your conjecture is obviously flawed.
I know you have to make up something as it's also obvious that you're out of ammo too.
At your current rate, it will take another 1000 posts before you even get warm about just what I am or what I think.
I give my opinions like anyone else whether anybody likes it or not.

As for attracting customers, we're doing fantastic as we can't seem to be able to keep up with demand for our services & we are about 1 year backlogged on items we make but, thanks for mentioning it.
As most others know, it's easy for you 2 to do the bashing since you're not in the biz.
See how that works ??
Don't give up your day job if you still have one.



JohnK454 wrote: The ones I mentioned above were Aug-Sept 2013.
Thanks for the info.
Lots of people hope things get better.




Quotes from another thread here.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=116276

wacki wrote:Silencershop has stopped making predictions. :-(

I've seen others complain about 3 months.
syfr wrote:Form 3 filed by Silencershop on July 1, received cans at my local SOT this week.

John
paper9 wrote:well, back to earth...for two units;
F3 sent in 7/26
F3 back 9/27.

63 days.
07/SOT2

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