Use of environmental and structural effects on Suppression.

[whiterussian1974]

Most of the Threads on this site concern muzzle devices. Experienced Snipers know to use the available environment to mask their position.
The Finnish Site shows use of structures.
http://guns.connect.fi/rs/suppress.html
Urban snipers shoot from inside rooms with an open or cut window. They leave interior doors open and place absorptive materials such as curtains, drapes, cushions near the muzzle.
Rural areas offer trees, bushes, grasses to diffuse sound waves. A common practice among British snipers is to use a fan made from metal wire and burlap with native foliage attached on site. These visually and accoustically mask their position from observers. Soviet snipers were taught to shoot from between large boulders when available. This causes sound reflection that mask location and suggest the position to be further than it is.
The brain interprets (psychoaccustics) sound in predetermined ways. Using this info, a hunter can fool game animals and allow follow-up shots if the 1st misses.
I have even been able to shoot certain game animals w brain or spinal shots, and their herd mates just looked around instead of running. They couldn't determine the threat location, so didn't want to run toward it.
Predators react differently. Coyotes will drop to the ground or seek cover.
I've never shot in a military situation, so I can't speak from experience as to how a squad or platoon would react to a head, spine or heart shot to an Officer or Crew Served Weapon Technician.
I HAVE been in shootouts in Urban Law Enforcement environments. Criminals tend to stand up, lay prone, seek cover or run away from the threat. LEOs tend to assume their training stance, typically Isosoles to present the greatest frontal vest area. If the first few shots turn into a prolonged battle; we seek cover, return to Patrol Car to retrieve a patrol rifle or shotgun, or make leapfrog advances to cover.
SWAT SNIPERS or Tactical Teams can use this info to predictive model the best set of circumstances to maximize their results and limit Officer and Colateral Losses/Injury.
For instance Bank Robbers are best dealt with if they believe they will make a clean getaway, and are engaged after leaving the bank and just before reaching their vehical.
I guess this is becoming an informative thread. I know that many begin with ?s, but this is for shooters to post other techniques and controlable situations that they have discovered so that the rest of us can learn from you with a focus on hunting or LEO (Law Enforcement Officer) applications.

[wacki]

Shooting between two rocks isn't suppression. Not in the classical sense anyway. It's obfuscation of your position. Your noise levels will dramatically increase as measured by your ears.


May you know this but I just thought I'd make it clear.

[whiterussian1974]

Shooting between two rocks isn't suppression. Not in the classical sense anyway. It's obfuscation of your position. Your noise levels will dramatically increase as measured by your ears.
Maybe you knew this but I just thought I'd make it clear.

Right. Except they shoot from behind the boulders and muzzle is in front of them. The echoes make it seem like the shot came from multiple directions and distances.
This is called, Sound Masking.
Just included this because Soviet snipers were rarely issued suppressors prior to 1980s, so they were forced to use structures and environment to mask their position.
PS: Please post which combination of devices and techniques you use on the Poll.

[wacki]

I muff and plug or plug and can. I also avoid concrete walls like at camp Atterbury. The sound richochette is chest thumping ridiculous.

Will have to read up on the other tactics.

[doubloon]

I chose a few of the methods listed plus "other" because I wasn't sure if ambient noise from stuff like mechanical or road noise was counted in "environmental".

[Bendersquint]

Most of the Threads on this site concern muzzle devices.

Thats because this site is SILENCERTALK not SNIPERSHIDE.

Silencertalk = Talk about silencers, building silencers, understanding silencers, showing off silencers, legal issues of silencers etc....

SnipersHide = Talk about being a sniper, training to be a sniper, sniper gear, tactics of a sniper etc....

Are you sure you logged into the correct website?

[sniper1]

Most of the Threads on this site concern muzzle devices.

Thats because this site is SILENCERTALK not SNIPERSHIDE.

Silencertalk = Talk about silencers, building silencers, understanding silencers, showing off silencers, legal issues of silencers etc....

SnipersHide = Talk about being a sniper, training to be a sniper, sniper gear, tactics of a sniper etc....

Are you sure you logged into the correct website?

HAHAHAHAHAHA. I was thinking the same thing.

[doubloon]

...
Thats because this site is SILENCERTALK not SNIPERSHIDE.
...

To be honest I consider the choices I made, with the exception of ear plugs since it was on the list, to be an enhancement to the benefit I get from using my suppressors for legal hunting/plinking activities.

But that is an excellent point and snipershide is a great resource.

[whiterussian1974]

Thats because this site is SILENCERTALK not SNIPERSHIDE.
Silencertalk = Talk about silencers, building silencers, understanding silencers, showing off silencers, legal issues of silencers etc....
SnipersHide = Talk about being a sniper, training to be a sniper, sniper gear, tactics of a sniper etc....
Are you sure you logged into the correct website?

Yes. If you read my post I described use of technology and environment to hunt game amimals, predators and scavengers.
I posted about LEO Sniping because there is a crossover between the 2 disciplines. I even compared Bank Robbers to Coyotes.

[whiterussian1974]

I chose a few of the methods listed plus "other" because I wasn't sure if ambient noise from stuff like mechanical or road noise was counted in "environmental".

I would have counted it as environmental, but thanks for explaining. Your post is greatly appreciated.

[whiterussian1974]

For instance Bank Robbers are best dealt with if they believe they will make a clean getaway, and are engaged after leaving the bank and just before reaching their vehical.

This can be compared w. herd animals drinking from a water source rather than during the approach, or preditors circling carrion rather than during the downwind approach.

[Bendersquint]

Thats because this site is SILENCERTALK not SNIPERSHIDE.
Silencertalk = Talk about silencers, building silencers, understanding silencers, showing off silencers, legal issues of silencers etc....
SnipersHide = Talk about being a sniper, training to be a sniper, sniper gear, tactics of a sniper etc....
Are you sure you logged into the correct website?

Yes. If you read my post I described use of technology and environment to hunt game amimals, predators and scavengers.
I posted about LEO Sniping because there is a crossover between the 2 disciplines. I even compared Bank Robbers to Coyotes.

Then this post would belong in the hunting section not the silencer talk section. There you can talk hunting tactics and how you plan to use boulders to confuse your coyotes of where you are.

[whiterussian1974]

Thats because this site is SILENCERTALK not SNIPERSHIDE.
Silencertalk = Talk about silencers, building silencers, understanding silencers, showing off silencers, legal issues of silencers etc....
SnipersHide = Talk about being a sniper, training to be a sniper, sniper gear, tactics of a sniper etc....
Are you sure you logged into the correct website?

Yes. If you read my post I described use of technology and environment to hunt game amimals, predators and scavengers.
I posted about LEO Sniping because there is a crossover between the 2 disciplines. I even compared Bank Robbers to Coyotes.

Then this post would belong in the hunting section not the silencer talk section. There you can talk hunting tactics and how you plan to use boulders to confuse your coyotes of where you are.

Thanks for the Flame. You should use PM for you cute remarks. People get sick of Trolls veering off Topic.
Did you bother to read my OP and Poll?
The point is using other means to compliment use of a suppressor. Suppressor lessens blast, but can't affect Line Source Signal resulting from Supersonic Flight Noise.
There is an old saying, "Suppressors don't make you silent, they make you invisible." This means that since supersonic flight noise can't be negated, damping and masking your signal can make it impossible to locate your position.

[Historian]

After reading the above I thank goodness that I waited, for once,
before inappropriately adding to this thread on extending the concept
of 'sound suppression'.

Else I would have embarrassed myself by writing about my environmental
suppression techniques that I learned from Ancient Greek reading
of the Odyssey.

Odysseus had his sailors stuff wax in their ears
to deaden the Sirens calls. Works for me every time. And no
extra stamp needed.

My Polish Physicist/photographer buddy
once told me of the Polish photographer's technique for developing Minox film where
no darkroom was available in the field (era before 10 megapixel iPhones ):
Close your eyes tightly and then unroll the film onto the stainless steel reels.

Best to all.

[whiterussian1974]

You never fail to crack me up Historian. You are a true blessing to the Forum.
My immigrant grandparents shared this, "How many Poles does it take to screw in a Lightbuld?"
Answer: "What's a Lightbulb?"
Maybe we can start a joke thread. Would it go under Legal/Political Discussion? Most Politicians are jokes, right?

[whiterussian1974]

Only 12 members have answered the Poll. Since even "none" is an answer, does this mean that only 12 of us shot firearms?

[doubloon]

After reading the above I thank goodness that I waited, for once,
before inappropriately adding to this thread on extending the concept
of 'sound suppression'.

Else I would have embarrassed myself by writing about my environmental
suppression techniques that I learned from Ancient Greek reading
of the Odyssey.

Odysseus had his sailors stuff wax in their ears
to deaden the Sirens calls. Works for me every time. And no
extra stamp needed.

My Polish Physicist/photographer buddy
once told me of the Polish photographer's technique for developing Minox film where
no darkroom was available in the field (era before 10 megapixel iPhones ):
Close your eyes tightly and then unroll the film onto the stainless steel reels.

Best to all.

[Historian]

Out of levity does come some serious thought, especially
when you wake up in the middle of the night nettled by a problem
you have not yet cracked.

Technique, defocus and ruminate about some enjoyable item:
e.g., improving the technology of suppression. (And why am I not surprised. )

Combining the best suppressor with a 'Polish Darkroom' - carrying around your
own 'environmental damping'. Has anyone ever taken a steel water jug that proliferate
super markets, cut a 1/2" hole in the base, placed it on the barrel and then threaded on the
suppressor to hold the bottle and embed it into its metal sheath?

In hazy Gedanken Test the tapered front filling end would
act as a 'shape charge' lens to redirect some of the percussion back/forward,
creating an interference wave in the vein of a novel surround sound diffuser.

It would be interesting if some legally empowered developers try and see
what if any improvement might be gleaned. What is attenuated? Does the
shroud give some measurable positive effect?

Oh, half an hour later at 0435 the solution popped into view.
"How thinking about suppressors came to the rescue and broke a mental impasse."

Another insight also arose but I shall spare you its presentation until
another topic closely comports to it.

[RJT]

Plugs or nothing. Still waiting for permission to get my toys.


BTW.......... LEO's are called sharpshooters, not snipers. 2 completely different things.....

[doubloon]

...
Combining the best suppressor with a 'Polish Darkroom' - carrying around your
own 'environmental damping'. Has anyone ever taken a steel water jug that proliferate
super markets, cut a 1/2" hole in the base, placed it on the barrel and then threaded on the
suppressor to hold the bottle and embed it into its metal sheath?
...

Portable shooting box.

[Historian]

...
Combining the best suppressor with a 'Polish Darkroom' - carrying around your
own 'environmental damping'. Has anyone ever taken a steel water jug that proliferate
super markets, cut a 1/2" hole in the base, placed it on the barrel and then threaded on the
suppressor to hold the bottle and embed it into its metal sheath?
...

Portable shooting box.

Brilliant! Dutch Wooden Shoe Box. Or am I again tilting
at windmills? Size 1/2" x 28 long.

"En un lugar de La Mancha, de cuyo nombre no quiero acordarme ...." or some such
poorly written Latin.

[whiterussian1974]

Plugs or nothing. Still waiting for permission to get my toys.
BTW.......... LEO's are called sharpshooters, not snipers. 2 completely different things.....

Depends upon Jurisdiction and purpose. For the most part you are right. But Police Counter-sniping is a useful LEO dispipline(sp) when serving High-risk Warrants on Drug Neighborhoods. (Where there are 20 lookouts, 8 guards armed with AKs and Machinepistols, and 1-2 marksmen with telescopic sights. Plus, a high tech 16-24 camera surveilence system. New Jack City aka Detroit/Houston/Dallas/LA/Miami, etc)

[whiterussian1974]

Portable shooting box.

Line it with sound absorbing eggcrate foam and .... oops, now I need to clean the keyboard again.

[seattlite]

From this thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=545755

[doubloon]

Those don't look exactly portable.

I recall reading somewhere that if it's portable then one of the alphabet organizations will get its panties in a wad over the whole thing.