NFA branch, what are you doing???

[Pman5KMO]

So checking NFA tracker, almost daily... and up to right before the shutdown, my can should have been approved a month ago... It's when they 'forecasted' it being done when I called the NFA branch. So it seems 2 weeks shutdown is equaling 2 months delay in having a form approved.

Part of it seems to be the E-file forms. Seems almost as though the govt is trying to pit NFA collectors against each other. A buddy of mine got his E-filed form 4 and 1 back last week, he submitted them 6 months AFTER my last form 4 went pending.

There is no LOGICAL reason why it should take more than 8 weeks, door to door... but one obvious one.... bureaucratic nonsense and BS...

[66427vette]

Just had a efile form 4 come back in 11 weeks. I have to think this is just them "testing " the system. I will be shocked if that pace keeps up. Hell I have form 3's that have been out 14 weeks now.

[Pman5KMO]

Just had a efile form 4 come back in 11 weeks. I have to think this is just them "testing " the system. I will be shocked if that pace keeps up. Hell I have form 3's that have been out 14 weeks now.

Yeah, precisely my point....

i mean, if they can E-file a form and have it approved in 11 weeks, it just shows that there is something seriously wrong with the process altogether with the other forms.

I remember when fingerprinting was the big hold up, which if they switched to LiveScan, it would greatly speed up the process on that (which is why for everything else in the US they use livescan anymore... except for those who have scars, or too light of prints)

When I did my Security Clearance packet back in 2004, from freaking Baghdad, I was livescanned.... and still had my clearance approved in less time than this last form 4 has taken....

other forms 4 and 1 I submitted 2.5 months prior took just about 7 months...

[eastern_hunter]

Dealer called just now. He talked to BATFE to find out where the forms were in the process. Says my cans cleared legal on day 87 of the year. Also says that the examiners are working on transfers that cleared legal on day 51 right now.

Looks very unlikely that any of my stuff will clear before the changes in the requirements for Trusts are approved. Means that everything depends on whether or not grandfathering happens.

259 days and counting.

Just for reference, I had an individual Form 4 for a belt fed MG clear in 1987 in 40 days, and one in 1997 in 80 days ... from my signature to approval. My my ... how times change.

Makes me grumpy.

[66427vette]

Give it time bet they will be about the same time frame.

[RJT]

I'm hoping the e-file only takes a few months. This morning I was told 9 months, on 3 form 4s that were assigned to an examiner on 10/3. I don't know if that is just the canned answer, or if their info even shows they were e-filed. Either way, I'm not holding my breath.....

[Bendersquint]

It only counts those that actually submit valid and true information, as I have said before I know people that have submitted false times, and some that are submitted that don't even own NFA.

This is why the NFA Tracker is useless except to give people some very vague timeline to learn patience.

NFA Tracker would be valid if EVERYONE submitted to it and submitted via faxing their form in for entry not fat fingering it in.

[Pman5KMO]

Give it time bet they will be about the same time frame.

Yeah leave it to the govt to screw up a perfectly fine system....

[Bendersquint]

Give it time bet they will be about the same time frame.

Yeah leave it to the govt to screw up a perfectly fine system....

Perfectly fine system? Really? 9-10+ month transfers?

New EForm system starting to kick out forms in 3-4 months?

You want the old system back?

[Pman5KMO]

Give it time bet they will be about the same time frame.

Yeah leave it to the govt to screw up a perfectly fine system....

Perfectly fine system? Really? 9-10+ month transfers?

New EForm system starting to kick out forms in 3-4 months?

You want the old system back?

I was talking about the efile... And once those go out to the same time frame... Besides with the proposed rule change would essentially kill exile unless they move to livescan and drop CLEO signature (still want to see where in the USC it states that) and allow digital photos... But that makes too much sense. Also want to see where in the federallaw it states a BG check must be conducted, so far all i have seen refers to an application for transfer on a form prescribed by the director(who the delegated authority has changed). Frankly they just need to eliminate 90% of the BS and run them through NICS, as the BG check the NFA branch uses is off the same database.

It makes as much sense as taking up a quarter page on all govt forms about the paperwork reduction act whichhas not reduced paperwork at all, only increased paper used...

[Bendersquint]

I was talking about the efile... And once those go out to the same time frame... Besides with the proposed rule change would essentially kill exile unless they move to livescan and drop CLEO signature (still want to see where in the USC it states that) and allow digital photos... But that makes too much sense. Also want to see where in the federallaw it states a BG check must be conducted, so far all i have seen refers to an application for transfer on a form prescribed by the director(who the delegated authority has changed). Frankly they just need to eliminate 90% of the BS and run them through NICS, as the BG check the NFA branch uses is off the same database.

It makes as much sense as taking up a quarter page on all govt forms about the paperwork reduction act whichhas not reduced paperwork at all, only increased paper used...

See in USC where they state what?

[Pman5KMO]

I was talking about the efile... And once those go out to the same time frame... Besides with the proposed rule change would essentially kill exile unless they move to livescan and drop CLEO signature (still want to see where in the USC it states that) and allow digital photos... But that makes too much sense. Also want to see where in the federallaw it states a BG check must be conducted, so far all i have seen refers to an application for transfer on a form prescribed by the director(who the delegated authority has changed). Frankly they just need to eliminate 90% of the BS and run them through NICS, as the BG check the NFA branch uses is off the same database.

It makes as much sense as taking up a quarter page on all govt forms about the paperwork reduction act whichhas not reduced paperwork at all, only increased paper used...

See in USC where they state what?

Anything about CLEO signoff or any of that...

[SRM]

If I go through the CLEO, I should get my forms back as long as it takes snail mail to deliver the damn stamp!
What, two weeks MAX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pman5KMO]

If I go through the CLEO, I should get my forms back as long as it takes snail mail to deliver the damn stamp!
What, two weeks MAX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Which just makes the entire CLEO signoff step redundant and capricious at best....

Ad far as the law, all I have been able to find is 26 USC 5812...

Which raises the question further since when can anyone but congress change the law (re: fingerprint photos for anyone but individual). It mentions NOTHING about CLEO signoff, as far as transfers are concerned (i did not check SOT application) and for transfers the actual law as written makes no reference to any BG checks.

[Bendersquint]

If I go through the CLEO, I should get my forms back as long as it takes snail mail to deliver the damn stamp!
What, two weeks MAX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Which just makes the entire CLEO signoff step redundant and capricious at best....

Ad far as the law, all I have been able to find is 26 USC 5812...

Which raises the question further since when can anyone but congress change the law (re: fingerprint photos for anyone but individual). It mentions NOTHING about CLEO signoff, as far as transfers are concerned (i did not check SOT application) and for transfers the actual law as written makes no reference to any BG checks.

You don't need a law to make a regulation. The ATF has regulatory control over firearms.....they can act what they feel is reasonable regulatory controls like NICS, Background check, Waiting periods, CLEO signoffs, etc.. It is within their regulatory powers.

The appropriate laws are out there just not specific to NFA and NFA Only but are applied to firearms in generally WHICH NFA weapons fall under anyways.

Example.....
Title 27, Chapter2 Part 478.102
Sales or Delivered of firearms on or after 30NOV98.
"(a)Background Check"
Says you can't transfer any firearms without performing a NICS check with limited exceptions.

There are more just gotta start reading the regulations and the USC.

[Delasangre4231]

I too am getting concerned because when I called to confirm pending they told me it would be exactly 6 months from pending date. That would put it Nov 30. So I am expecting it any day now, but my dealer said he hasnt got a single stamp in 6 weeks, and he has a ton of NFA weapons waiting. So all in all its making me nervous.

[Bendersquint]

I too am getting concerned because when I called to confirm pending they told me it would be exactly 6 months from pending date. That would put it Nov 30. So I am expecting it any day now, but my dealer said he hasnt got a single stamp in 6 weeks, and he has a ton of NFA weapons waiting. So all in all its making me nervous.

Did you call BEFORE or AFTER the .gov furlough and get the 6 month date? I am willing to be BEFORE.

If so that date has been changed, once the furlough ended all estimates were 9-12 months from pending date adding 3 to 6 months on all apps.

Why are you nervous? You are just waiting in line, unless you did something legally wrong there is nothing to be nervous about, its not an interview.

The stamps are flowing so just relax, and wait, your stamp will be here soon, worrying won't give you anything but antiacid and kidney stones.

[Pman5KMO]

If I go through the CLEO, I should get my forms back as long as it takes snail mail to deliver the damn stamp!
What, two weeks MAX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Which just makes the entire CLEO signoff step redundant and capricious at best....

Ad far as the law, all I have been able to find is 26 USC 5812...

Which raises the question further since when can anyone but congress change the law (re: fingerprint photos for anyone but individual). It mentions NOTHING about CLEO signoff, as far as transfers are concerned (i did not check SOT application) and for transfers the actual law as written makes no reference to any BG checks.

You don't need a law to make a regulation. The ATF has regulatory control over firearms.....they can act what they feel is reasonable regulatory controls like NICS, Background check, Waiting periods, CLEO signoffs, etc.. It is within their regulatory powers.

The appropriate laws are out there just not specific to NFA and NFA Only but are applied to firearms in generally WHICH NFA weapons fall under anyways.

Example.....
Title 27, Chapter2 Part 478.102
Sales or Delivered of firearms on or after 30NOV98.
"(a)Background Check"
Says you can't transfer any firearms without performing a NICS check with limited exceptions.

There are more just gotta start reading the regulations and the USC.

Yes but the proposed legislation is directly contrary to federal law. CFR cannot exceed the scope of USC, this would be a prime example of federal regulations clearly exceeding authority granted under USC, and would in fact render the EO issued as exceeding constitutional authority, and all would be unenforceable and any attempt to enforce it would actually be violating federal law... At least in the way our govt and legal system is supposed to work. CFR must follow USC and cannot change statutory law, it only applies as far ad administrative law. Basically if USC says only individuals must submit fingerprints and photo, as it clearly does, then CFR can only define what constitutes appropriate photo and fingerprint guidelines. They cannot exceed the scope of USC, which the proposed rule change is clearly doing.

[Bendersquint]

Yes but the proposed legislation is directly contrary to federal law. CFR cannot exceed the scope of USC, this would be a prime example of federal regulations clearly exceeding authority granted under USC, and would in fact render the EO issued as exceeding constitutional authority, and all would be unenforceable and any attempt to enforce it would actually be violating federal law... At least in the way our govt and legal system is supposed to work. CFR must follow USC and cannot change statutory law, it only applies as far ad administrative law. Basically if USC says only individuals must submit fingerprints and photo, as it clearly does, then CFR can only define what constitutes appropriate photo and fingerprint guidelines. They cannot exceed the scope of USC, which the proposed rule change is clearly doing.

You keep confusing LAW with RULES. The proposal is for a RULE not a LAW. Law couldn't exceed USC, but a RULE can.

Rules can strengthen/enhance/expand a law.....just like state laws can only strengthen federal laws they can't relax them.

[Delasangre4231]

I too am getting concerned because when I called to confirm pending they told me it would be exactly 6 months from pending date. That would put it Nov 30. So I am expecting it any day now, but my dealer said he hasnt got a single stamp in 6 weeks, and he has a ton of NFA weapons waiting. So all in all its making me nervous.

Did you call BEFORE or AFTER the .gov furlough and get the 6 month date? I am willing to be BEFORE.

If so that date has been changed, once the furlough ended all estimates were 9-12 months from pending date adding 3 to 6 months on all apps.

Why are you nervous? You are just waiting in line, unless you did something legally wrong there is nothing to be nervous about, its not an interview.

The stamps are flowing so just relax, and wait, your stamp will be here soon, worrying won't give you anything but antiacid and kidney stones.

Called before, but was pretty sure they didnt actually close down during the shutdown, my dealer was getting stamps signed during the shutdown.

I guess I will call again and see what they are saying.

Not nervous persay, just getting annoyed with all the delays when I have almost 1000 dollars held up for about a year...

[Bendersquint]

I too am getting concerned because when I called to confirm pending they told me it would be exactly 6 months from pending date. That would put it Nov 30. So I am expecting it any day now, but my dealer said he hasnt got a single stamp in 6 weeks, and he has a ton of NFA weapons waiting. So all in all its making me nervous.

Did you call BEFORE or AFTER the .gov furlough and get the 6 month date? I am willing to be BEFORE.

If so that date has been changed, once the furlough ended all estimates were 9-12 months from pending date adding 3 to 6 months on all apps.

Why are you nervous? You are just waiting in line, unless you did something legally wrong there is nothing to be nervous about, its not an interview.

The stamps are flowing so just relax, and wait, your stamp will be here soon, worrying won't give you anything but antiacid and kidney stones.

Called before, but was pretty sure they didnt actually close down during the shutdown, my dealer was getting stamps signed during the shutdown.

I guess I will call again and see what they are saying.

Not nervous persay, just getting annoyed with all the delays when I have almost 1000 dollars held up for about a year...

Yes, they were shutdown during the furlough, at minimum staff of secretaries.

[Vagabond]

i called the day before the shutdown, was told my form 4, submitted in February, had gone second pending middle of July and would be at my dealer within 90 days.

my fear is that trusts are being held up until after the new regulation goes into effect. almost like they picked an arbitrary date sometime earlier in the year and said all after this date will be held to the new rules. that way they could send a ton of them back with all of them having several hoops to jump through (trustee and beneficiary fingerprinting, photos, CLEO sign-off), which can take varying amounts of time to resubmit, while they clear their cache of paper applicants and move exclusively to the e-file system.

i have nothing concrete to base this on other than a hunch and what i think is happening with my form 4 going on 9 months in limbo.

[Prince Yamato]

Wait... I have a Form 4 (Individual) waiting at the Sheriff's office. I haven't submitted it yet. Are you saying that if I did an e-File instead, it would cut the wait time?

[telero]

Wait... I have a Form 4 (Individual) waiting at the Sheriff's office. I haven't submitted it yet. Are you saying that if I did an e-File instead, it would cut the wait time?

No, because as an individual you can't efile a form.

[este]

So it seems 2 weeks shutdown is equaling 2 months delay in having a form approved.

Without getting into the rest of the bullshit in this thread... This quote is true enough. At the very least if you were waiting during shutdown, expect at least 1 more months likely 2.

I should have been approved in mid-Sept... Still waiting. Expecting mid-December now. Either everyone is fucked up or maybe just Sandra Snook has decided to slow it down a bit.