New Toy Wanted - Help Me Make My Decision

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st.attila
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New Toy Wanted - Help Me Make My Decision

Post by st.attila » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:59 pm

Info: I do not currently own a suppressor, but I just recently shot my first suppressed rifle, an Accuracy International .308 at Tiger Valley.

I have decided to start with a .22 caliber suppressor.

I need help with the following:

1. Integrally suppressed rifle or stand alone can.
2. Semi-auto (Ruger 10/22, my preference) or bolt action (Ruger 77/22).
3. Do you have to use subsonic ammo?
4. Are suppressor designs based on specific velocity ammo?

Sell me on your position. Please recommend a manufacturer/item only if you own it.

Loki_stormbringer
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Re: New Toy Wanted - Help Me Make My Decision

Post by Loki_stormbringer » Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:49 pm

My advice:
Buy a can, can move it between hosts at will. Follow up later with the integral.
Get the 10/22 that you prefer, get a bolt lock and turn it into a bolt action at will
To be mouse fart quiet yes use subsonic
For .22 not to my limited knowledge. They will suppress the report but not the sonic crack.

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Re: New Toy Wanted - Help Me Make My Decision

Post by st.attila » Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:37 am

Loki,

Thanks. I'll start looking for a threaded barrel for my current 10/22 (stock is for the standard barrel contour). Could be a good excuse just to get another one. I'll also investigate that bolt lock.

I hope others will weigh-in with their advice and opinions as well.
Last edited by st.attila on Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New Toy Wanted - Help Me Make My Decision

Post by DirtyHandsRob » Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:28 pm

st.attila wrote:
1. Integrally suppressed rifle or stand alone can. Get a user serviceable 22 can.
2. Semi-auto (Ruger 10/22, my preference) or bolt action (Ruger 77/22). i like semi autos, but bolt actions are quieter.
3. Do you have to use subsonic ammo? for best results, yes, unless you have a 4.5" barrel, which would keep most standard velocity ammo subsonic.
4. Are suppressor designs based on specific velocity ammo? i don't know for sure. some 22 cans can be used on other calibers, which is nice if you have more than 1 or 2 hosts that are not 22LR. for instance 17 or 5.7x28, etc...
i have a Savage MKII and an SBR AR. both are great hosts.

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Re: New Toy Wanted - Help Me Make My Decision

Post by st.attila » Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:01 pm

Rob,

Thanks for your inputs. I'll check out the Savage MKII.

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doubloon
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Re: New Toy Wanted - Help Me Make My Decision

Post by doubloon » Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:02 pm

st.attila wrote:...
1. Integrally suppressed rifle or stand alone can.
2. Semi-auto (Ruger 10/22, my preference) or bolt action (Ruger 77/22).
3. Do you have to use subsonic ammo?
4. Are suppressor designs based on specific velocity ammo?

Sell me on your position. Please recommend a manufacturer/item only if you own it.
Similar to what everyone else has already said.

1. Stand alone can, Sparrow, Spectre II, Kodiak ... can't go wrong, own the Spectre would buy the others in a heartbeat if I had the cash. If you ever want to shoot more than 22lr or go full auto pay close attention to the can spec's.

2. Semi-auto 10/22, if you want it to be max quiet you can hold the bolt closed. If you want to target shoot 100+ yards you'll be happier with a bolt in the long run, Savage Mark II FV-SR recommended ~$250. I own both.

2.5 Semi-auto bonus opinions ... Get a red dot, something like a Burris FastFire is all you need out to 50+ yards or so for tearing up cans, squirrels and rabbits. Don't mess with the Butler Creek stuff, get a couple Ruger 25 round mag's, a couple TriMags and 4-6 Ruger 10 round mag's. You can actually mount a TriMag on a single 10 round mag and save your thumb some skin if you want to shoot as compact as possible. I own them all.

3. No. You don't have to use subsonic ammo but subsonic will be NOTICEABLY quieter because there will be no crack from the bullet flight.

4. No. Suppressors reduce the sound of the muzzle report only and not the sound of the bullet flight. There are some integral rifle suppressors built to bleed speed off hypersonic ammo to bring it down to subsonic velocity.

I'm not selling it, I'm living it.
Last edited by doubloon on Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDtd2jNIwAU MUSAFAR!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI This is Water DavidW
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Re: New Toy Wanted - Help Me Make My Decision

Post by eastern_hunter » Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:05 pm

I also suggest the user serviceable 22 can. 10/22s are nice but I also like the Savage FVSR bolt rifle. Is short, light, w a decently stiff stock, and can ready. Accurate little beggar too. Pop a scope on it and away you go.

I use CCI SV 22 lr ammo for pistols and rifles.

st.attila
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Re: New Toy Wanted - Help Me Make My Decision

Post by st.attila » Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:09 pm

doubloon wrote:
st.attila wrote:...
1. Integrally suppressed rifle or stand alone can.
2. Semi-auto (Ruger 10/22, my preference) or bolt action (Ruger 77/22).
3. Do you have to use subsonic ammo?
4. Are suppressor designs based on specific velocity ammo?

Sell me on your position. Please recommend a manufacturer/item only if you own it.
Similar to what everyone else has already said.

1. Stand alone can, Sparrow, Spectre II, Kodiak ... can't go wrong, own the Spectre would buy the others in a heartbeat if I had the cash. If you ever want to shoot more than 22lr or go full auto pay close attention to the can spec's. Sparrow is on my short list.

2. Semi-auto 10/22, if you want it to be max quiet you can hold the bolt closed. If you want to target shoot 100+ yards you'll be happier with a bolt in the long run, Savage Mark II FV-SR recommended ~$250. I own both. Another vote for the Savage MKII.

2.5 Semi-auto bonus opinions ... Get a red dot, something like a Burris FastFire is all you need out to 50+ yards or so for tearing up cans, squirrels and rabbits. Don't mess with the Butler Creek stuff, get a couple Ruger 25 round mag's, a couple TriMags and 4-6 Ruger 10 round mag's. You can actually mount a TriMag on a single 10 round mag and save your thumb some skin if you want to shoot as compact as possible. I own them all. Just sold my FastFire, but considering an Aimpoint Micro as a replacement.

3. No. You don't have to use subsonic ammo but subsonic will be NOTICEABLY quieter because there will be no crack from the bullet flight.

4. No. Suppressors reduce the sound of the muzzle report only and not the sound of the bullet flight. There are some integral rifle suppressors built to bleed speed off hypersonic ammo to bring it down to subsonic velocity.

I'm not selling it, I'm living it.
Doubloon, more good feedback.

st.attila
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Re: New Toy Wanted - Help Me Make My Decision

Post by st.attila » Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:11 pm

eastern_hunter wrote:I also suggest the user serviceable 22 can. 10/22s are nice but I also like the Savage FVSR bolt rifle. Is short, light, w a decently stiff stock, and can ready. Accurate little beggar too. Pop a scope on it and away you go.

I use CCI SV 22 lr ammo for pistols and rifles.
Wow, the Savage is really popular! Thanks Eastern Hunter.

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doubloon
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Re: New Toy Wanted - Help Me Make My Decision

Post by doubloon » Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:15 pm

The Savage has earned it's place as a budget precision rifle, you can buy more expensive rifles that won't outshoot it.

My Savage edges out my 10/22 for precision but not by a lot. With the right ammo and proper tuning I think you'd be hard pressed to see a big difference between the two from 50 yards and in. The only meaningful difference I've observed in accuracy between the two with good ammo is 75 yards and out. I chrono'd my FV-SR and muzzle velocity is very consistent within a decent variety of ammo, I'm guessing probably with a little help from the locked bolt.

If you want to get serious about 22 precision shooting this is not a bad place to start. http://www.accurateshooter.com/shooting ... sion-match

But if you start getting that serious you'll probably start gauging rim thickness too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDtd2jNIwAU MUSAFAR!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI This is Water DavidW
Complete Form 1s http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895

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laxguy59
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Re: New Toy Wanted - Help Me Make My Decision

Post by laxguy59 » Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:26 am

Get a 22 can and buy a lot of hosts for it from bolt action, semiauto rifle, and semi auto pistols.

Get a 22 can that is easy to clean, therefore made with steel internals(Sparrow, Spectre II, Kodiak)

Here's my sparrow on some hosts to give you an idea of how versatile it is. Not pictured is it on my Savage 93 22magnum and the Smith and Wesson M&P 22 handgun(really recommend it for semi auto pistol).

Image
Image

The previously recommended Savage MKII FV-SR
Image

Image

Image

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Re: New Toy Wanted - Help Me Make My Decision

Post by L1A1Rocker » Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:00 am

May I make a suggestion on your choice of Ruger 22 rifle host? How about the lever action Ruger 96-22? It uses the same mags as the 10-22 and is just as quiet as a bolt gun.

Image

st.attila
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Re: New Toy Wanted - Help Me Make My Decision

Post by st.attila » Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:33 am

laxguy59,

Thanks for the pics. They make your point. I have several that are good hosts for a suppressor, but only 5 in .22LR (2 semi-auto rifles, 1 pump rifle, and 2 semi-auto pistols) and none of them have a threaded barrel. Only 1 rilfle and 1 pistol are candidates for a barrel swap. The 10/22 being the easiest.

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Re: New Toy Wanted - Help Me Make My Decision

Post by st.attila » Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:46 am

L1A1Rocker wrote:May I make a suggestion on your choice of Ruger 22 rifle host? How about the lever action Ruger 96-22? It uses the same mags as the 10-22 and is just as quiet as a bolt gun.

Image
I suppose I would consider a Ruger 96/22 (produced from 1996-2009). I have Marlin lever actions in .45 Colt and 30/30 Win. I'll have to admit when the 96/22 first came out I thought it was ugly, but I didn't own a lever action back then. I like the bull barrel on yours, it completely changes the look. I have a preference for stainless (and black rifles) and I don't recall ever seeing one in stainless.

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Re: New Toy Wanted - Help Me Make My Decision

Post by dan9591 » Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:01 pm

If you are even thinking if an integral, you will likely end up with one!

I bought both my kids one of these with silencerco sparrows: http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/view ... ategory=35

I also ended up buying an integral takedown from Thompson machine: http://www.thompsonmachine.net/?page_id=14

The pws with the sparrow is stupid quiet. The integral is still a semi auto, so you hear the action.

My favorite is the pws with the can just because I love that rifle so much.

The integral takedown is really useful and practical for camping, etc.

Also, when you go up to a larger caliber, john's guns makes an awesome integral .308...

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Re: New Toy Wanted - Help Me Make My Decision

Post by L1A1Rocker » Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:20 pm

st.attila wrote:
I suppose I would consider a Ruger 96/22 (produced from 1996-2009). I have Marlin lever actions in .45 Colt and 30/30 Win. I'll have to admit when the 96/22 first came out I thought it was ugly, but I didn't own a lever action back then. I like the bull barrel on yours, it completely changes the look. I have a preference for stainless (and black rifles) and I don't recall ever seeing one in stainless.
You're right of course, they are ugly. I got over that ugly factor real quick though when I realized they use the same mags as the 10-22. It does change the look a lot, but it's not a bull barrel. Its actually an integral silencer. 8)

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Re: New Toy Wanted - Help Me Make My Decision

Post by Historian » Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:44 pm

And the gold standard, the Aston Martins of .22 Rimfires-

S&W M41 with a Bully Barrel

<< http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/sh ... %2B+barrel >>

<< http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=5&f=16&t=63953 >>

Though the esteemed Ray Brandes is no longer making Bully Barrels (1:8 twist )
he has commissioned EWK Arms, another stellar machinist, to turn them out (1:12 twist).

Or they will thread your existing M41.

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Re: New Toy Wanted - Help Me Make My Decision

Post by .300WinMag » Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:33 pm

I don't believe anyone has mentioned this already so I will throw this out there -

If you don't have any suppressors at this juncture, you may consider that once you get one, you're likely to get several more. The only question is are you going to get several now or over the course of time. If it is the later, you may consider getting something that has multi use in mind. An SWR Octane 9 or .45 would provide you with the ability to use this on rimfire -> the stated pistol caliber. They are take aparts, so they can be cleaned as well. Because the pistol can is physically larger, sound reduction will be very close (to the ear) to that of the best rimfire cans, even though the aperture is much larger. The downside is the weight and balance. This really only comes into play with rimfire pistols, esp sub-compacts.

Starting with a versital can and backfilling with specific suppressors may prove to be more enjoyable.

Your call.



Good luck

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Re: New Toy Wanted - Help Me Make My Decision

Post by Historian » Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:26 pm

.300WinMag wrote:I don't believe anyone has mentioned this already so I will throw this out there -

If you don't have any suppressors at this juncture, you may consider that once you get one, you're likely to get several more. The only question is are you going to get several now or over the course of time. If it is the later, you may consider getting something that has multi use in mind. An SWR Octane 9 or .45 would provide you with the ability to use this on rimfire -> the stated pistol caliber. They are take aparts, so they can be cleaned as well. Because the pistol can is physically larger, sound reduction will be very close (to the ear) to that of the best rimfire cans, even though the aperture is much larger. The downside is the weight and balance. This really only comes into play with rimfire pistols, esp sub-compacts.

Starting with a versital can and backfilling with specific suppressors may prove to be more enjoyable.

Your call.



Good luck
You bring up an excellent point.

Also as wipes are now supposedly ( please confirm ) no longer 'registrable'
then placing a wipe at the front of the can further tones down a .22 round's noise.

It would interesting to see if anyone has posted using a larger .45 can on a .22 with and then without a wipe.

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Re: New Toy Wanted - Help Me Make My Decision

Post by st.attila » Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:09 pm

L1A1Rocker wrote:
st.attila wrote:
I suppose I would consider a Ruger 96/22 (produced from 1996-2009). I have Marlin lever actions in .45 Colt and 30/30 Win. I'll have to admit when the 96/22 first came out I thought it was ugly, but I didn't own a lever action back then. I like the bull barrel on yours, it completely changes the look. I have a preference for stainless (and black rifles) and I don't recall ever seeing one in stainless.
You're right of course, they are ugly. I got over that ugly factor real quick though when I realized they use the same mags as the 10-22. It does change the look a lot, but it's not a bull barrel. Its actually an integral silencer. 8)
Sweet!

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Re: New Toy Wanted - Help Me Make My Decision

Post by st.attila » Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:11 pm

Historian wrote:And the gold standard, the Aston Martins of .22 Rimfires-

S&W M41 with a Bully Barrel

<< http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/sh ... %2B+barrel >>

<< http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=5&f=16&t=63953 >>

Though the esteemed Ray Brandes is no longer making Bully Barrels (1:8 twist )
he has commissioned EWK Arms, another stellar machinist, to turn them out (1:12 twist).

Or they will thread your existing M41.
Don't have one, but I looked seriously at them once. Thanks for the links to the pics.

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Re: New Toy Wanted - Help Me Make My Decision

Post by st.attila » Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:18 pm

.300WinMag wrote:I don't believe anyone has mentioned this already so I will throw this out there -

If you don't have any suppressors at this juncture, you may consider that once you get one, you're likely to get several more. The only question is are you going to get several now or over the course of time. If it is the later, you may consider getting something that has multi use in mind. An SWR Octane 9 or .45 would provide you with the ability to use this on rimfire -> the stated pistol caliber. They are take aparts, so they can be cleaned as well. Because the pistol can is physically larger, sound reduction will be very close (to the ear) to that of the best rimfire cans, even though the aperture is much larger. The downside is the weight and balance. This really only comes into play with rimfire pistols, esp sub-compacts.

Starting with a versital can and backfilling with specific suppressors may prove to be more enjoyable.

Your call.



Good luck
I like how you think. Since posting, I have decided to try and endure the paperwork beating just once (at least for the time being) and get a .30 cal can to use on my AR-10 and AR-15 as well. For some reason, I had not thought about doing the same for a .22 cal can. I wonder what can easily provide multiple caliber use. For the rifle cans I plan on using a QD system (muzzle brake or flash suppressor) that works for both rifles.
Last edited by st.attila on Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

st.attila
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Re: New Toy Wanted - Help Me Make My Decision

Post by st.attila » Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:20 pm

Historian wrote:
.300WinMag wrote:I don't believe anyone has mentioned this already so I will throw this out there -

If you don't have any suppressors at this juncture, you may consider that once you get one, you're likely to get several more. The only question is are you going to get several now or over the course of time. If it is the later, you may consider getting something that has multi use in mind. An SWR Octane 9 or .45 would provide you with the ability to use this on rimfire -> the stated pistol caliber. They are take aparts, so they can be cleaned as well. Because the pistol can is physically larger, sound reduction will be very close (to the ear) to that of the best rimfire cans, even though the aperture is much larger. The downside is the weight and balance. This really only comes into play with rimfire pistols, esp sub-compacts.

Starting with a versital can and backfilling with specific suppressors may prove to be more enjoyable.

Your call.



Good luck
You bring up an excellent point.

Also as wipes are now supposedly ( please confirm ) no longer 'registrable'
then placing a wipe at the front of the can further tones down a .22 round's noise.

It would interesting to see if anyone has posted using a larger .45 can on a .22 with and then without a wipe.
I'll be looking for answers to this comment as well.

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Re: New Toy Wanted - Help Me Make My Decision

Post by st.attila » Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:26 pm

dan9591 wrote:If you are even thinking if an integral, you will likely end up with one!

I bought both my kids one of these with silencerco sparrows: http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/view ... ategory=35 Nice and pricey!

I also ended up buying an integral takedown from Thompson machine: http://www.thompsonmachine.net/?page_id=14 I had just checked those out yesterday. I like them.

The pws with the sparrow is stupid quiet. The integral is still a semi auto, so you hear the action.

My favorite is the pws with the can just because I love that rifle so much.

The integral takedown is really useful and practical for camping, etc.

Also, when you go up to a larger caliber, john's guns makes an awesome integral .308...
I have started looking at the Ruger 10/22 Takedown (11125) in lieu of getting a threaded barrel for mine.

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Re: New Toy Wanted - Help Me Make My Decision

Post by doubloon » Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:20 pm

st.attila wrote:...
I have started looking at the Ruger 10/22 Takedown (11125) in lieu of getting a threaded barrel for mine.
The take down is nice.
st.attila wrote:
Historian wrote:...
then placing a wipe at the front of the can further tones down a .22 round's noise.
...
I'll be looking for answers to this comment as well.
I think -B- once commented that adding a wipe to a suppressor not designed for a wipe might possibly be viewed as a $200 change by the ATF.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDtd2jNIwAU MUSAFAR!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI This is Water DavidW
Complete Form 1s http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895

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