Glock 17 without a booster.

[Dr.K]

I do NOT want the gun to function!
Everywhere I've searched for this, it's about getting the gun to function.
I'm aiming for maximum suppression (no action noise)

I am not in the least concerned with functioning of the pistol, I know without a booster, and a dropping lock design, you will have issues.

Ok, what I'm curious about.

Example, say I put a can on a G17 that was 1.5" diameter, 9" long, and weighed 25ozs.
I know if I get half assed unlocking, there would likely be accelerated wear, but

Would it damage the gun otherwise?

Would a can this size/weight keep the action closed, and cause no damage?

Am I missing antything here? I'm a fixed barrel guy, never fooled with boosters, but would love to shoot my glock with a thread on can off of a form1 in a single shot fashion.

Thanks.

[qballis]

This may not accomplish what you are looking for, but a thumb over the back plate on the slide of the Glock will not allow the slide to move and save excessive wear on the gun and can.

Check this tactical operator: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw8sbb8eDjg

[whiterussian1974]

a thumb over the back plate on the slide of the Glock will not allow the slide to move and save excessive wear on the gun and can.

Could also break or dislocate thumb if something goes wrong. Better to get a heavy recoil spring. Don't worry about partial decoupling of slide. Partial cycling won't cause excess wear as long as case remains in chamber. Repeated stovepipes would be cause for concern.
I know you said that this is a form 1 w/o booster. For those WITH booster, here is propably your best bet. A collar that replaces recoil-booster spring to prevent cycling.
http://www.gem-tech.com/store/pc/PBT-9M ... -8p109.htm

say I put a can on a G17 that was 1.5" diameter, 9" long, and weighed 25ozs.
I'm a fixed barrel guy, never fooled with boosters, but would love to shoot my glock with a thread on can off of a form1 in a single shot fashion.

Are you using a Rifle can? I use someting similar to this size on my AK 9x39mm. It's rated for 375 Ruger, but works on lessor case volumes too.
If it's only for pistol, why not make a 10oz can; use 24# Guiderod spring? http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx ... 8&CAT=3744

[JasonM]

Find someone to recreate a version of the old KAC slide lock (You'll need a metal-framed gun)-

[whiterussian1974]

Beautiful CAN!!! Do you have your plans and internal pics already posted? Would love to see them.
Love the attachment and built-in iron sights.

[JasonM]

Beautiful CAN!!! Do you have your plans and internal pics already posted? Would love to see them.
Love the attachment and built-in iron sights.

Google Knights XM9, M9-QD, Snap-on, etc for all the info you'd want.

[acg1911]

The only extra wear, I would imagine, would be if the gun attempts to cycle. Even then, it seems that the wear would still be less than the same amount of rounds fired without the suppressor. I suppose a really stiff recoil spring (one that would allow the gun to be manually cycled only) might work.

I use an Ev9 on a glock 34, and have considered this. I just haven't had time to experiment.

[CThomas]

[whiterussian1974]

The only extra wear, I would imagine, would be if the gun attempts to cycle. Even then, it seems that the wear would still be less than the same amount of rounds fired without the suppressor. I suppose a really stiff recoil spring (one that would allow the gun to be manually cycled only) might work.

What parts would wear? Spring would absorb recoil. At 24# plus mass of can, the spring would prevent cycle. You could even handcast own slugs since you want subsonic. This works great on low-drag ribbed-profile slugs. Will ride lands on aftermarket barrels but compresses into rotating hexagonal section in OEM.
So don't use hexagonal rifling. Will flatten sides into plug preventing blowby and risking catastrophic barrel failure.

[CThomas]

Good luck with finding someone to recreate the slide lock. People have been asking for someone to do this for years, people have said they would look into it but nothing ever materialized.

I paid a guy to make me the QD mount but after a year of trial and error he gave up the project. He said he was committed to doing it in the future so I left my money with him but given it has been over two years now I am not holding out hope.

[whiterussian1974]

I paid a guy to make me the QD mount but after a year of trial and error he gave up the project.

I'm surprised that Major Mnfrs don't give this QD as an option for their pistons. Seems like they could use GemTech MultiMount concept to screw into can.
Here's my Osprey-type concept.

And one using valved pressure resevoir.

[Dr.K]

Ok, so

Is this a totally retarded idea to try?

Or, go ahead it won't hurt a thing?

[whiterussian1974]

Dr K: you still haven't said if this is a purpose-built G17 can or a dual-use rifle can.
If for dual, OK. If only for G17, you have plenty of feedback.
My take is, NO WAY. Make a 10oz can w/o booster and use 24# recoil spring.

Here's the can on my bullpup 9x39mm AK. Blurry image, but really sweet. If you want something that heavy and long, think about trying this instead of using a pistol. WWWAAAYYY better than a 300 BLK!

[Dr.K]

Haven't made anything yet, but still want to know if my "theoretical can" in my example would cause any issues and do what it is I need it to do.

What I don't want is another discussion about how to make the gun function. There are boatloads of threads on that topic spread all over the internet.

....whatever it may materialize into is to be determined. That would topic for another thread.

[whiterussian1974]

There's no reason why your idea wouldn't work.
Others just have ideas for what we would prefer.

[MJF1911]

Is there some reason that a fixed barrel spacer won't work to prevent cycling on the Glock? I haven't tried it on my semi autos.

[whiterussian1974]

Is there some reason that a fixed barrel spacer won't work to prevent cycling on the Glock? I haven't tried it on my semi autos.

That was my post in this thread on PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:40 am

[Garrett]

A good can won't sound much different whether the slide is locked, or if it cycles. Large internal volume alone won't always do you the best job.

I ran these two side by side. First I ran the Trident without the booster to keep it from cycling. It was quieter. Then I ran it with the booster, vs. the un-boostered subgun can. The Trident was still quieter.

And different cans do better or worse on different host firearms. The two cans sound pretty much the same to the ear on an Uzi or an M11. But they sound very different shooting the same ammo through a pair of Glocks.

[whiterussian1974]

A good can won't sound much different whether the slide is locked, or if it cycles. Large internal volume alone won't always do you the best job.
I ran these two side by side. First I ran the Trident without the booster to keep it from cycling. It was quieter. Then I ran it with the booster, vs. the un-boostered subgun can. The Trident was still quieter.
The two cans sound pretty much the same to the ear on an Uzi or an M11.

I think that Thread Author is concerned with ejection port leakage.
Your post sounds like your experience is that port leakage isn't a significant sound source. Maybe even softens sound by reversing gas flow and offering another release point? Should create mad turbulence inside can.
You mention the Trident. What's the other can?
Last, you mention M11. I'm guessing Mac11, not "M11, a United States military designation for the SIG P228 semi-automatic pistol."

[Garrett]

You mention the Trident. What's the other can?
Last, you mention M11. I'm guessing Mac11, not "M11, a United States military designation for the SIG P228 semi-automatic pistol."

The other can is a Bowers CAC-45. Granted, it makes for an imperfect comparison, as I was shooting 9mm through one 9mm can and one .45 can, but I have found that one to sound pretty close to the CAC-9, when both are shooting 9mm. It was close enough for what I was trying to determine.

I was referring to an SWD M11/9, which is not the same as a MAC-11, and also not the same as a P228 (US M11 pistol).

[BigDave@SMDW,LLC]

To the OP, an option you could look at is a Mystic with the fixed barrel adapter, there are a few board members here that I am sure would let you test drive their can for the asking. You can come to the facility too if you cant line one up that way and we can shoot it here. We have several people that have bought this setup deliberately as they shoot at indoor ranges and some indoor ranges wont let you pick up your brass citing safety concerns. This way, they can manually eject the spent casings into their range bag and nobody complains...

Just an option should the Berretta project fall through...

BTW the berretta system is one of those guns that I have always wanted, just because...

Dave

[Dr.K]

Thank you for the invite Dave.

That answers my question which was "Will doing this damage my glock?"

Being that people do it, I'm accepting the answer as "Folks do it, it's ok for the gun"

[bani]

Could also break or dislocate thumb if something goes wrong.

a slide will not break your thumb. newton's laws. and all that. basic physics.

slide mass(+barrel mass for locked breech) * velocity = bullet weight * velocity

plug in the numbers and you'll see why slide velocity is a non issue. this is not even counting the force the recoil spring is exerting.

and no, it will not hurt your gun.

[quietoldfart]

I've no experience with a Glock, nor the Knights thing which looks very clever indeed. But I did decide recently to install a a slide lock on my Unique D4 .22"LR pistol. I used a length of 1/8" x 1/2" 304 stainless, formed into a stirrup to wrap around the duckbill (which I recently shortened as it was digging into the web of my hand just a little, curving downwards the way it did), mounting it with a pair of stainless bolts going into a 10-32 threaded hole I put into the frame, which is full width solid steel in this area. The 304 is slightly work-hardened by light hammering, then heated to a brass colour to get rid of the bright whiteness of the metal. The two matched cut-outs in the slide were fussy to get right, and probably still aren't quite right, but I'm letting it settle in through some shooting before worrying about that. As it fits now I hammer the stirrup home with the heel of my hand to get it firmly into the cut-outs. There is zero movement of the slide, and it swings down easily by pressing upwards with my thumb after the shot to enable racking the next round. Dumping spent brass into my left hand has proven an easy maneuver and the next round slips off the top and chambers well regardless of pistol orientation.

I'd already optimised the suppressor as thoroughly as I could, bringing CCI Quiet down to about 103dB first round and CCI SV to 104.5dB, both as measured by my (yes, I know, impossible to use because it responds too slowly...) cheap eBay'd meter, which I find very useful in taking notes to track progress in my experiments. With my ported 7" barrel and over-the-barrel suppressor with 7 tiny K baffles, velocity of these rounds measures 570fps and 925fps respectively. Anyway, these numbers each dropped about 2dB on average, and subsequent shots fired while smoke is still resident in the tube average about 1.5dB quieter still. For comparison, my PCP air pistol in .22" shooting a 16gr projectile at 600fps meters 117.4dB in the same room with the same 1 metre distance from the microphone, and measures 101dB with an 8", 11 K baffle suppressor. To the ear there is virtually no difference between the suppressed PCP pistol and the Unique firearm with slide locked firing CCI Quiet. They're slightly different in character, but not at all in volume, with the action noise (hammer and spring and slight pressure tube *ping*) being more apparent as part of the air pistol's sound, the firearm sounding more like a hammer striking with moderate force upon a short section very wet of 2" x 12" board laying on mud. Colourful description, sure, but that's what it sounds like.

Seems there is nowhere left to go with suppression efficiency in this pistol, but this is fine with me as it is practically 'Hollywood quiet' when fired outdoors over grass, and I can fire it into clay in one room of my house without causing alarm to my family reading in the next room, with a light closed door between. Just tried it. No one noticed, and when I asked for impressions of the sound my wife and son were puzzled and didn't know which sound I meant. Success! So yes, I regard the slide lock feature on a semi-automatic pistol to be something worth pursuing, even if it's only for a relatively small reduction in blast volume, and for the obvious retention of bouncing, noisy brass. Brass catchers are awkward, bulky things. Unlocking, racking and re-locking this pistol takes about 2 seconds with only a little practice. A lot slower than semi-auto rate of fire obviously, but subsonic loads don't cycle the action reliably anyway so it's actually more efficient in this case.

As for durability, I expect to see some gradual deformation of the ribbed steel ahead of the slide lock over time. It's not a feature I'll use terribly heavily, more an occasional thing, but still it may degrade the locking action slightly in time. This pistol came to me in substantially 'well loved' condition in the sense of a fair bit of damage to the finish and a thoroughly cracked muzzle brake (it had filled with lead long-since and been fired a lot after that without cleaning - seems to have been ill-made, causing clipping at the brake exit port, which initiated this damage) and other neglect visible. I tidied it up a lot, made it function smoothly, modified the magazine followers to a steeper incline for reliable feeding, performed a lot of other modifications just to get it 'happy.' So I'm not overly concerned with maintaining the appearance, plainly. As such, should peening of the grooves in the slide become pronounced I shall probably file the area clean and fit a couple of tool steel plates into the grooves, meshing them together with the slide, and with the various slide internals removed, obviously, I'll silver solder these pieces into position to bolster the stop grooves. If neatly done this should provide a very durable solution. For now, after some dozens of stopped-slide shots using subsonic and standard velocity rounds, I've seen no significant change. Anyway, here are some close-up images:

[Historian]

I've no experience with a Glock, nor the Knights thing which looks very clever indeed. But I did decide recently to install a a slide lock on my Unique D4 .22"LR pistol. I used a length of 1/8" x 1/2" 304 stainless, formed into a stirrup to wrap around the duckbill (which I recently shortened as it was digging into the web of my hand just a little, curving downwards the way it did), mounting it with a pair of stainless bolts going into a 10-32 threaded hole I put into the frame, which is full width solid steel in this area. The 304 is slightly work-hardened by light hammering, then heated to a brass colour to get rid of the bright whiteness of the metal. The two matched cut-outs in the slide were fussy to get right, and probably still aren't quite right, but I'm letting it settle in through some shooting before worrying about that. As it fits now I hammer the stirrup home with the heel of my hand to get it firmly into the cut-outs. There is zero movement of the slide, and it swings down easily by pressing upwards with my thumb after the shot to enable racking the next round. Dumping spent brass into my left hand has proven an easy maneuver and the next round slips off the top and chambers well regardless of pistol orientation.

I'd already optimised the suppressor as thoroughly as I could, bringing CCI Quiet down to about 103dB first round and CCI SV to 104.5dB, both as measured by my (yes, I know, impossible to use because it responds too slowly...) cheap eBay'd meter, which I find very useful in taking notes to track progress in my experiments. With my ported 7" barrel and over-the-barrel suppressor with 7 tiny K baffles, velocity of these rounds measures 570fps and 925fps respectively. Anyway, these numbers each dropped about 2dB on average, and subsequent shots fired while smoke is still resident in the tube average about 1.5dB quieter still. For comparison, my PCP air pistol in .22" shooting a 16gr projectile at 600fps meters 117.4dB in the same room with the same 1 metre distance from the microphone, and measures 101dB with an 8", 11 K baffle suppressor. To the ear there is virtually no difference between the suppressed PCP pistol and the Unique firearm with slide locked firing CCI Quiet. They're slightly different in character, but not at all in volume, with the action noise (hammer and spring and slight pressure tube *ping*) being more apparent as part of the air pistol's sound, the firearm sounding more like a hammer striking with moderate force upon a short section very wet of 2" x 12" board laying on mud. Colourful description, sure, but that's what it sounds like.

Seems there is nowhere left to go with suppression efficiency in this pistol, but this is fine with me as it is practically 'Hollywood quiet' when fired outdoors over grass, and I can fire it into clay in one room of my house without causing alarm to my family reading in the next room, with a light closed door between. Just tried it. No one noticed, and when I asked for impressions of the sound my wife and son were puzzled and didn't know which sound I meant. Success! So yes, I regard the slide lock feature on a semi-automatic pistol to be something worth pursuing, even if it's only for a relatively small reduction in blast volume, and for the obvious retention of bouncing, noisy brass. Brass catchers are awkward, bulky things. Unlocking, racking and re-locking this pistol takes about 2 seconds with only a little practice. A lot slower than semi-auto rate of fire obviously, but subsonic loads don't cycle the action reliably anyway so it's actually more efficient in this case.

As for durability, I expect to see some gradual deformation of the ribbed steel ahead of the slide lock over time. It's not a feature I'll use terribly heavily, more an occasional thing, but still it may degrade the locking action slightly in time. This pistol came to me in substantially 'well loved' condition in the sense of a fair bit of damage to the finish and a thoroughly cracked muzzle brake (it had filled with lead long-since and been fired a lot after that without cleaning - seems to have been ill-made, causing clipping at the brake exit port, which initiated this damage) and other neglect visible. I tidied it up a lot, made it function smoothly, modified the magazine followers to a steeper incline for reliable feeding, performed a lot of other modifications just to get it 'happy.' So I'm not overly concerned with maintaining the appearance, plainly. As such, should peening of the grooves in the slide become pronounced I shall probably file the area clean and fit a couple of tool steel plates into the grooves, meshing them together with the slide, and with the various slide internals removed, obviously, I'll silver solder these pieces into position to bolster the stop grooves. If neatly done this should provide a very durable solution. For now, after some dozens of stopped-slide shots using subsonic and standard velocity rounds, I've seen no significant change. Anyway, here are some close-up images:

Standing ovation for brilliantly conceived and efficiently executed!

Thank you for showing and demonstrating that innovative thinking is not dead.

Best.