No SBR, Permentaly attatch?

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mr fixit
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No SBR, Permentaly attatch?

Post by mr fixit » Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:32 pm

wondering what are the downsides of using a permanently attached suppressor on a short barrel to bring the length up to 16"?

I am thinking of a 300 aac, and a form 1 suppressor in an AR package. I really don't want to have to form1 an SBR too, the cost starts making this not fun and even unmanageable. And i'm not interested in a pistol AR.

I'm thinking it's either short barrel with a permanently attached suppressor, or a 16" barrel and a reflex design.

Which would be a better option?

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Re: No SBR, Permentaly attatch?

Post by samson7x » Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:36 pm

Look at the Liberty Leonidas upper assembly.

Edit- Just noticed you said Form1 suppressor so disregard.
Last edited by samson7x on Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: No SBR, Permentaly attatch?

Post by wacki » Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:37 pm

Weld a vented tube that's bigger than the suppressor onto the barrel.

Don't weld the suppressor to the barrel.

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Re: No SBR, Permentaly attatch?

Post by wacki » Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:41 pm

Check out the sig mpx. They have a fixed barrel brake that you slip the suppressor tube onto. It's a avoids the SBR stamp.

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Re: No SBR, Permentaly attatch?

Post by acg1911 » Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:52 pm

Did this viewtopic.php?f=11&t=35888 a few years ago with a semi Uzi (no SBRs allowed in Alabama at that time). The barrel concept worked great. However, the Vector Uzi would only run with stout ammo. It was quiet..at least until I started cussing at the FTEs.

I imagine the same thing can be done to a short BLK barrel.

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Re: No SBR, Permentaly attatch?

Post by Bendersquint » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:28 pm

wacki wrote:Check out the sig mpx. They have a fixed barrel brake that you slip the suppressor tube onto. It's a avoids the SBR stamp.
A sig rep told me they didn't get the approval for that and are going to revise it. Sig said its a silencer part. It absolutely killed the precedence that I was hoping it would create.

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Re: No SBR, Permentaly attatch?

Post by Bendersquint » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:29 pm

The only negative to a permanently affixed silencer is that it can't be moved to other hosts and if its a serviceable can it can be more difficult to take apart.

Thats it

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Re: No SBR, Permentaly attatch?

Post by MJF1911 » Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:08 pm

Pay the money and do it the right way, otherwise you'll just be unhappy with the end product trying to save $200.
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Re: No SBR, Permentaly attatch?

Post by mr fixit » Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:18 am

MJF1911 wrote:Pay the money and do it the right way, otherwise you'll just be unhappy with the end product trying to save $200.
Pray tell, what exactly is the 'right way'? And where would one find the book with all the rules so that I can know for sure I'm doing it 'right'?

I assume that your suggestion of doing it 'right' means SBR and not perm attach. Funny, seems someone already pointed out Liberty is doing the very thing with the Leonidas product. Perhaps we should notify them they are doing it wrong?

And thank you for looking into my future and finding out how I will feel about something I haven't done yet. I may be contacting you in the near future on other future decisions. Where were you when I was a teenager, you could have saved me some grief.

Honestly, I appreciate the effort to help, I do. But rather than tell me what you think I should do, based on what you would do and what you would feel, how about we answer the question I asked, possibly suggest other questions to me that you think I may not of considered, and offer suggestions and alternatives. the whole telling me what to do sounds like a real parent and child conversation, and it is quite possible I have children as old as you are.

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Re: No SBR, Permentaly attatch?

Post by Dr.K » Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:09 am

I'm in MJF's wagon also. Permanent attach just limits you. Personally, I do not like limits, and I like options, so I went the SBR route and am happier because of it.

If expensive is a big concern you sir have picked the wrong hobby! Lol.
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Re: No SBR, Permentaly attatch?

Post by MJF1911 » Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:00 am

mr fixit wrote: And thank you for looking into my future and finding out how I will feel about something I haven't done yet. I may be contacting you in the near future on other future decisions. Where were you when I was a teenager, you could have saved me some grief.
Good luck then.
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Re: No SBR, Permentaly attatch?

Post by mr fixit » Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:30 am

mr fixit wrote: Pray tell, what exactly is the 'right way'? And where would one find the book with all the rules so that I can know for sure I'm doing it 'right'?

I assume that your suggestion of doing it 'right' means SBR and not perm attach. Funny, seems someone already pointed out Liberty is doing the very thing with the Leonidas product. Perhaps we should notify them they are doing it wrong?

And thank you for looking into my future and finding out how I will feel about something I haven't done yet. I may be contacting you in the near future on other future decisions. Where were you when I was a teenager, you could have saved me some grief.

Honestly, I appreciate the effort to help, I do. But rather than tell me what you think I should do, based on what you would do and what you would feel, how about we answer the question I asked, possibly suggest other questions to me that you think I may not of considered, and offer suggestions and alternatives. the whole telling me what to do sounds like a real parent and child conversation, and it is quite possible I have children as old as you are.
I was rude, and want to apologize to all. I should not have responded the way I did. All I can say is that it was the end of long week.

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Re: No SBR, Permentaly attatch?

Post by Toxarch » Sun Dec 22, 2013 4:36 am

I am just guessing here.
Would it be legal to build a 16" integrally suppressed upper with a screw-on sleeve that goes over it? You are planning to build the suppressor anyway and permanently attaching isn't out of the question. The baffles would be attached to the barrel. The screw-on sleeve is the registered suppressor part, right? I'm not sure if that would work. But if the sleeve can still be removed, in theory, you could build baffles that go inside it so it could be used on another rifle too. Don't know the legalities of doing that though.

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mr fixit
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Re: No SBR, Permentaly attatch?

Post by mr fixit » Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:17 am

Toxarch wrote:I am just guessing here.
Would it be legal to build a 16" integrally suppressed upper with a screw-on sleeve that goes over it? You are planning to build the suppressor anyway and permanently attaching isn't out of the question. The baffles would be attached to the barrel. The screw-on sleeve is the registered suppressor part, right? I'm not sure if that would work. But if the sleeve can still be removed, in theory, you could build baffles that go inside it so it could be used on another rifle too. Don't know the legalities of doing that though.
I think that would be along the lines of extra parts. I think once a suppressor is made, all the suppressor parts are together and there are no parts in existence for it anywhere else. any parts are considered a suppressor.

I think the only option along those lines would be to build the suppressor, pin/weld/attach it to the short barrel so that the overall length is over 16". Then, if I wanted to at some point in the future, SBR the rifle, remove the can, and have one SBR and one can.

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Re: No SBR, Permentaly attatch?

Post by Bendersquint » Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:04 pm

Toxarch wrote:I am just guessing here.
Would it be legal to build a 16" integrally suppressed upper with a screw-on sleeve that goes over it? You are planning to build the suppressor anyway and permanently attaching isn't out of the question. The baffles would be attached to the barrel. The screw-on sleeve is the registered suppressor part, right? I'm not sure if that would work. But if the sleeve can still be removed, in theory, you could build baffles that go inside it so it could be used on another rifle too. Don't know the legalities of doing that though.
Unfortunately that design wouldnt be legal. Any part use in a silencer is a silencer in itself.

The tube is the part that bears the serial number and is registered. The guts while not registered are however still regulated parts. No extras.

If ther silencer is permanent to a rilfe the. Its permanent to the rifle and cant be moved around.

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Re: No SBR, Permentaly attatch?

Post by TEXMEX » Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:41 pm

Daniel Defense makes an integrally suppressed 300 BLK. Price is little stout, $3199.00

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Re: No SBR, Permentaly attatch?

Post by medphys3 » Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:14 am

Do what you need to do, brother.

I have 3 stamps; a M11 smg, SpectreII, and a 2"x8" 9mm can re-cored by Thompson Machine. I don't want/need any more stamps, but want to get as much use out of my cans as possible. I'm going to use a TacSol SB X style barrel (shrouded) on my ZX-22 so I can avoid SBRing it and not have the Spectre stick out to 24". The 9mm can gets almost no use as is so it's going to be permanently mounted to an AR upper for 9mm/300 blackout.

Best of luck with your project.

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Re: No SBR, Permentaly attatch?

Post by Baffled » Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:11 pm

mr fixit wrote:
MJF1911 wrote:Pay the money and do it the right way, otherwise you'll just be unhappy with the end product trying to save $200.
Pray tell, what exactly is the 'right way'? And where would one find the book with all the rules so that I can know for sure I'm doing it 'right'?

I assume that your suggestion of doing it 'right' means SBR and not perm attach. Funny, seems someone already pointed out Liberty is doing the very thing with the Leonidas product. Perhaps we should notify them they are doing it wrong?

And thank you for looking into my future and finding out how I will feel about something I haven't done yet. I may be contacting you in the near future on other future decisions. Where were you when I was a teenager, you could have saved me some grief.

Honestly, I appreciate the effort to help, I do. But rather than tell me what you think I should do, based on what you would do and what you would feel, how about we answer the question I asked, possibly suggest other questions to me that you think I may not of considered, and offer suggestions and alternatives. the whole telling me what to do sounds like a real parent and child conversation, and it is quite possible I have children as old as you are.
Good luck dude. You are only the 1,532nd person to ask the question you did.

I was going to suggest the same thing - SBR it and be done. $200. A quick engraving, and now you have a cool short-barreled weapon and a silencer you can move around. The bang for the buck is infinitely better.

But apparently suggestions not in line with your world view get a snarky response like this. So ignore us. I recommend you weld your form 1 can to the barrel, take lots of pictures, and write a letter to the ATF asking them "Is this OK?"

Edit - I missed your apology. Therefore, I apologize for this. ^^

Seriously - doing an SBR is about the easiest thing in the world. I know it sucks to have to wait months, but you can build the suppressor while you wait, and play with it on a legal barrel.

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Re: No SBR, Permentaly attatch?

Post by mr fixit » Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:06 pm

My initial response was fast, heated and after a long difficult week.

Please dont take this response as being snarky or smart-Alicky, I dont mean it that way it all.

Here is the thing, when I posted my original question, I had not then and in fact have not now made a decision about whether I want to do it as an SBR or perm. attached. I'm still trying to decide, that's why I asked the question I did which was: what are the downsides of using a permanently attached suppressor on a short barrel to bring the length up to 16"?

That's what this particular thread is asking, nothing more. I already have a list of reasons to go the SBR route, and have an idea of the downside which is time. I'm asking about the downside of the other option.
Bendersquint wrote:The only negative to a permanently affixed silencer is that it can't be moved to other hosts and if its a serviceable can it can be more difficult to take apart.

Thats it
That is the kind of info I don't have and am looking for. Bendersquint, thank you very much!

Maybe I'm getting old, maybe I'm too cranky, or maybe I'm just a butt, or possibly a mix of all three. But, when I ask a question and someone rather than answer the questions just tells me what to do.......
Perhaps if I had phrased my question with "what do you guys think I should do....?" But I didn't.

If a guy can't come here and ask a question, and expect to get that question answered, or at least be told why the question can't be answered, then why would a guy want to come here? If I just want to be told what to do I'll go talk to my boss or my wife.

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Re: No SBR, Permentaly attatch?

Post by rancilio » Sat May 24, 2014 4:23 pm

mr fixit, what did you end up doing?
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Re: No SBR, Permentaly attatch?

Post by continuity » Sun May 25, 2014 7:16 pm

mr fixit wrote:... I was rude, and want to apologize to all. I should not have responded the way I did. All I can say is that it was the end of long week.

Scott
I don't think you were being rude... a little pointed perhaps, but absolutely in line. Thought your response was a tad longwinded, but well reasoned. Smartassery of an advanced level. :lol: Even better though, is your attitude with the social responsibility of a site presence. Cudos.

IMHO, the extended barrel shroud idea would seem to have merit, from a leave options open perspective. Especially as you point out, the costprocess of NFA item possession is costly, and a decision to use a suppressor on another platform might become viable. It seems suppressors are a little like that luxury thing you decide to try... that quickly becomes a basic necessity.

In answer to your original post, welding/permanently attaching a suppressor to a barrel, makes that suppressor a single platform use device. Some might say that restriction is akin to tatooing a females name on ones self...
What amount of a man is composed of his own collection of experiences... and the conclusions that those experiences have allowed him to "know" for certain as "Truth"? :Ick

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Re: No SBR, Permentaly attatch?

Post by Joker31D » Sun May 25, 2014 10:42 pm

what about the way the Huntertown arms cans are made with a unimount and can being able to unscrew for cleaning? make it 12" with the 4"+ of can and the "mount for each, I think OSS is doing something like that too. Just an idea, seen Huntertown cans welded a bunch to make 16" rifles, guessing because they are cheap.
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Re: No SBR, Permentaly attatch?

Post by nice shot » Mon May 26, 2014 3:20 am

wacki wrote:Weld a vented tube that's bigger than the suppressor onto the barrel.

Don't weld the suppressor to the barrel.
Im listening, sorta like the TI barrel.
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