First Round Pop question related to wet & wiped

[GHEN]

Hi all,

It seems from some videos I have been watching that suppressors that are wet and/or wiped seem to have much less FRP.

This seems to make sense, there is less volume in the can for air is there is an artificial medium present and less air = less FRP.

This leads me to a more complex supposition that I wanted to got opinions on:

If one wanted to negate as much FRP as possible, and had a wiped can then assuming you could "purge" the suppressor of oxygen would you be close to eliminating the FRP? My thinking is the wipe would not allow oxygen in from the muzzle end and the attachment end would be sealed since it would be already attached.

Couple of things:

1. For all I know this is common knowledge. I have never played with wiped cans before so if this is an incredibly basic question than try and be kind in your responses.

2. Please don't chime in with "get over the FRP" comments. Yes I realize FRP isn't a huge deal for many; such feelings are noted.

Thank in advance,

GHEN

[whiterussian1974]

Yes. Evacuating O2 and replacing w Nitrogen via a basketball needle through a semirigid plug would definitely work. Silicone rubber would provide low density seal. (A wipe isn't air tight. And Li grease works by cooling, rather than replacing O2.)

The downside is low 1st rnd accuracy. But if I were raiding a meth lab w MP5/40 this would be my choice. Use FMJ 1st 3 rnds, JHP for the rest.

Great minds think alike.

[GHEN]

A wipe isn't air tight.

No but assuming the pressures inside the can were essentially equal to the outside pressure than there wouldn't be much migration through the miniscule places air could flow right? Therefore the can's internal environment would remain essentially O2 free after purging; thoughts?

And Li grease works by cooling, rather than replacing O2.)

I understand that grease's (or other artificial medium's) PRIMARY effect is cooling, however I am sure there is some secondary effect of the volume of that medium displacing air that would be there otherwise.

The downside is low 1st rnd accuracy.

I assume this is because of the instability imparted to the bullet becasue of contact with the wipe. Has anyone done any testing as to how much this degrades practical accuracy?

Great minds think alike.

Yes we do!

[whiterussian1974]

please don't increase font size. It makes it difficult to read. I already increase screen magnification to 110% to help my eyes. font=150 makes it difficult to scan quickly. This can be offputting.
Maybe size=115, or change color to grab attention?

A wipe isn't air tight.

No but assuming the pressures inside the can were essentially equal to the outside pressure than there wouldn't be much migration through the miniscule places air could flow right? Therefore the can's internal environment would remain essentially O2 free after purging; thoughts? Only if you did this seconds before use. Otherwise molecular physics mean that O2 will migrate clear into barrel over time. Even 2 hrs results in a great deal of transfer. Gas doesn't have same surface tension as water. It uses covalent bonds.

And Li grease works by cooling, rather than replacing O2.)

I understand that grease's (or other artificial medium's) PRIMARY effect is cooling, however I am sure there is some secondary effect of the volume of that medium displacing air that would be there otherwise. The displacement is negligable. Quenching the hot gas is primary purpose. Fire triangle is Oxidizer, temp, fuel(which requires pressure to accelerate smokeless powder as opposed to black powder.) A fire retardant foam would work if the surface tension didn't pull the bullet into a baffle. Ouch!

The downside is low 1st rnd accuracy.

I assume this is because of the instability imparted to the bullet becasue of contact with the wipe. Has anyone done any testing as to how much this degrades practical accuracy?Not me, maybe someone else.

Great minds think alike.

Yes we do!

[whiterussian1974]

Alternately you could puge the can w halon or co2 down a straw nozzle just prior to firing.
It depends upon your purpose and how much hassle you want @ home vs range.

[300LW]

I've wanted to try a squirt of Bloxygen just before firing to displace the air and see what it would do for FRP. http://www.bloxygen.com

I have a can I use to preserve wine but always forget to take it with me to the range.

[whiterussian1974]

I've wanted to try a squirt of Bloxygen just before firing to displace the air and see what it would do for FRP. http://www.bloxygen.com

Makes since to me.

Nitrogen atributes:
atomic weight 14, highly chemically active, bonds easily w Oxygen

Argon has:
atomic weight 40, Inert noble gas, heavier than air.

Argon is a thicker, more stable, inert gas. It is easily trapped in baffle chambers, has harder time leaking through plug, won't become as oxidizer like NOX.

So Argon is an even better choice. I would still use Li grease in conjunction w Argon to attack Fire Triangle from 2 directions.

Great series of posts on many threads 300LW. Keep them coming.

[MCKNBRD]

IIRC, a significant component of FRP is the O2 in the can. Theoretically, if you eliminate the O2, you should be ahead of the curve.

Why not just get one of the little CO2 canister powered keyboard dusters? Have a flap of tape on the exit hole of the can (opened to allow flow), then stick the nozzle in the barrel from the chamber end, fill the bore/can with CO2, then seal the tape & load the chamber. It won't be perfect, but it would be easy, quick, and cheap.

No advantage from an ablative, of course, but no O2 in the can, either.

I remember hearing about guys in Vietnam putting 2 or 3 rounds into the dirt through their suppressed rifles then taping the end of the can before heading out into indian country. Kinda the same theory, just without wasting ammo.

Byrdman

[Historian]

Yes. Evacuating O2 and replacing w Nitrogen via a basketball needle through a semirigid plug would definitely work. Silicone rubber would provide low density seal. (A wipe isn't air tight. And Li grease works by cooling, rather than replacing O2.)

The downside is low 1st rnd accuracy. But if I were raiding a meth lab w MP5/40 this would be my choice. Use FMJ 1st 3 rnds, JHP for the rest.

Great minds think alike.

Whew!! For a moment I misread ... guys hate to read carefully ... I first thought that
Southern LEOs were " ... raiding MATH Labs ... ".
Almost tripped running to hide my collection of books on Complex Differentiable
Manifolds and Galois Field Extensions for Cryptography.

Math is still my drug of choice.

[GHEN]

Whew!! For a moment I misread ... guys hate to read carefully ... I first thought that
Southern LEOs were " ... raiding MATH Labs ... ".
Almost tripped running to hide my collection of books on Complex Differentiable
Manifolds and Galois Field Extensions for Cryptography.

Math is still my drug of choice.

I was once arrested down South for smuggling books in, but I got off on a technicality; luckily no-one in court could prove they were books.

Apologies to my Southern brethren, I mean no disrespect. This is a joke have have used on many different geographical areas; just going with the flow...which is in direct opposition to what this forum is about now that I think of it.

GHEN

[GHEN]

I remember hearing about guys in Vietnam putting 2 or 3 rounds into the dirt through their suppressed rifles then taping the end of the can before heading out into indian country. Kinda the same theory, just without wasting ammo.

Byrdman

Yeah we did that in A-Stan as well but a little more difficult to do in my basement.

GHEN

[dtom29]

No need to get exotic, any of the "canned air" dusters have no o2 in them and yes, they work great at eliminating FRP.