SilencerCo K Versions

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Toxarch
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SilencerCo K Versions

Post by Toxarch » Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:01 pm

SilencerCo just announced 2 new versions of the Saker and Specwar. These are the Saker K and Specwar K. According to their own testing, the K versions are louder than the regular models on 3 different length barrels. The only benefit I see is that the K version is shorter. So what's the point in putting out the K versions other than being shorter? Why put out models that are a 4 dB louder on a 16" barrel?

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RPM509
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Re: SilencerCo K Versions

Post by RPM509 » Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:26 pm

For thos who want a bit extra sound reduction while they are shooting, possibly indoors or while hunting
when a full sized can is just a tiny bit too long or heavy.

I would like to have that Saker K on a PS90 or a Tavor SBR.
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Toxarch
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Re: SilencerCo K Versions

Post by Toxarch » Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:30 pm

3dB is doubling the audio energy of the source. 5-6 dB is a 50% increase in perceived volume. Sure, a shorter, lighter can would be nice, but I don't see the benefit when the can ends up being less efficient. Military close quarters fighting, sure there's a benefit in a shorter can. But outside military/LEO, I think quieter is better.

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JasonM
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Re: SilencerCo K Versions

Post by JasonM » Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:58 pm

lots of reasons-

- AAC and Surefire (and others) have popular "mini" cans in their product lines

- 5.56 is a damn loud round suppressed (you should still wear ear pro even with a can)

- shorter cans look cooler

- most people don't shoot enough to care about performance
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Re: SilencerCo K Versions

Post by a_canadian » Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:12 pm

Toxarch wrote:3dB is doubling the audio energy of the source. 5-6 dB is a 50% increase in perceived volume.
Huh? So 3dB doubles (or halves, going the other way) the 'energy' but 6dB is only a 50% change? Is this some kind of new math? I thought 6dB was quadruple (or one quarter, going the other way) of the blast noise. Isn't that right?

As for the 'why' part, well, smaller and lighter as others have stated. But in the mid- to high-130's decibel-wise that's still friggin' LOUD. Even knocking off another 5-6dB, it's more volume than I'd want to subject my ears to directly, even for one or two shots. So seems to me when you're already shooting almost as loud as unsuppressed 22LR, what's a few dB either way? Hardly seems significant. For folks using supersonic ammo anyway, they'd want to have ear pro in place with either suppressor. And if you're going to be carrying the thing around for more than half an hour you'll probably want to go with the lighter model.

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Re: SilencerCo K Versions

Post by Toxarch » Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:51 pm

a_canadian wrote:
Toxarch wrote:3dB is doubling the audio energy of the source. 5-6 dB is a 50% increase in perceived volume.
Huh? So 3dB doubles (or halves, going the other way) the 'energy' but 6dB is only a 50% change? Is this some kind of new math? I thought 6dB was quadruple (or one quarter, going the other way) of the blast noise. Isn't that right?
Yes, you are correct if it is being measured by machine. It takes double the energy to increase the measured SPL by 3 dB. That is measured by a meter. However, if you are measuring by the human ear, then it is perceived volume. It takes 10 dB before people THINK the volume is doubled and around 6 dB before people THINK the volume is 50% louder. At high volumes, humans can't distinguish a 3dB difference, it's all loud. There was an experiment done with a large group where they tested it to figure out how the human ear perceives increases in volume.

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Re: SilencerCo K Versions

Post by a_canadian » Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:45 pm

Well it doesn't really matter if the 'large study' involved a billion participants, at least in terms of individual hearing perception. Every individual human has a different experience of sound compared to other individual humans. Someone like a friend of mine for instance, who has fired over hundreds of thousands of .50" and over 4,000,000 rounds of various ammo over his military career, for instance, has a hard time hearing the difference between any two suppressors regardless of quality. I've done my best to protect my hearing all my life, and the accuracy of my aural perception is central in my line of work. I'm fairly easily able to tell the difference when a meter is showing a 2 or 3dB difference without checking the meter first. Two fairly disparate versions of human hearing there. And if you bring small children into the mix you'll find dramatically increased sensitivity in wide swaths of the audible spectrum making the extremes even further apart.

But point taken. On average, it takes a big change for humans generally to note changes in volume.

I've often seen comments in these forums where people place volume reduction in 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th place among their priorities when designing or shopping for a can. Blows my mind a little. I sort of thought the whole point was volume damping, provided accuracy isn't adversely affected, with everything else like light weight, compactness, even durability being well down the list. But a suspicion is growing that this has more to do with the extent to which individual shooters have damaged their own hearing already than any other factor. Once you've blown your eardrums they're blown, no way back, so I guess at that point I wouldn't care so much about sonic efficiency either, at least for my own sake. Bothering other people though, that seems still an important consideration.

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Re: SilencerCo K Versions

Post by KSoze » Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:42 pm

Looks cool. Looks loud too.

Their tests are showing at best 3dB improvement over the 14" bbl only. The longer and shorter barrels were 4-5 dB louder. I would just assume everything will be at least 5dB louder. I can barely stand to shoot an SBR AR with a full length can so this is definitely in the ear plugs category. I'd rather have that little bit of length personally. But they look so cool.

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Re: SilencerCo K Versions

Post by Conqueror » Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:57 am

K versions are typically louder in milspec 1m left muzzle testing but are often quieter at the shooter's ear on an AR, because they produce less back pressure and the ejection port noise is softer.

Toxarch, if you don't get why they are releasing these, you must be new to the 5.56 can game. They are actually late to the small silencer market, AAC and Surefire produce wildly popular miniature models and have been cashing in for years.
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Re: SilencerCo K Versions

Post by wacki » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:58 pm

I love shorty cans.... As well as SBR's. They go well together.

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Re: SilencerCo K Versions

Post by bnanaphone » Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:36 pm

I think the new Specwar shorty looks great with regard to its specs. My only rifle can is the Specwar 762 and it's a heavy beast on an 11.5" SBR after a while. If I can get something nearly 3" shorter and just over 10 oz lighter, I'm in.

I never shoot without ear pro with my rifle can anyway so if it's still quieter than an unsuppressed 22, I am happy.

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Re: SilencerCo K Versions

Post by Tactical Joke » Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:51 am

They were in stock @ SilencerShop as of last night. Hopefully I 'll have mine in my grubby little paws by next Christmas.

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