broken suppressor - now a paperweight?

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extremelyslow2014
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broken suppressor - now a paperweight?

Post by extremelyslow2014 » Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:37 am

Hi, I've got a couple of questions I was hoping some of the members could help with. I bought a rimfire suppressor from a well-respected vendor and took it out to the range after getting my stamp. I shot a few rounds, and on approximately the 5th round, the cap, and a few of the baffles sailed downrange into the target. So we shut down the range (embarrassing - yes..)and tried to find the missing cap & baffles - unsuccessfully..

So I sent the can back to the manufacturer and was initially told that I'd have to wait as the parts were currently being manufactured, so I waited. About 4-6 weeks later, I asked how it was coming, and was told they were still working on it. About a week later I get an email telling me that they cannot repair the can without the original baffles & cap due to ATF regulations - this is about 6 weeks after I sent the can with its parts in. The manufacturer is asking me to please locate the parts and that this cannot be a warranty repair as it is a 'regulatory' issue with the ATF..

Does anybody see any possible solution to this? I've asked the indoor range if they ever turned up the missing baffles & cap and they say they never found them. I was told that sometimes a suppressor can be re-serialized or destroyed (ie, flattened) and then evidence shown to the ATF of its destruction, so that it can subsequently be replaced..(?)

I'm a little bummed out that this can would have a catastrophic failure and be a paperweight now since it only is missing the cap and a couple of baffles..

Thanks all for any help/ideas..

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Capt. Link.
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Re: broken suppressor - now a paperweight?

Post by Capt. Link. » Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:08 pm

Call www.stalkingrhino.com/contact You should post the douche that can't fix what they claim to make.
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Bendersquint
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Re: broken suppressor - now a paperweight?

Post by Bendersquint » Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:44 pm

extremelyslow2014 wrote:So I sent the can back to the manufacturer and was initially told that I'd have to wait as the parts were currently being manufactured, so I waited. About 4-6 weeks later, I asked how it was coming, and was told they were still working on it. About a week later I get an email telling me that they cannot repair the can without the original baffles & cap due to ATF regulations - this is about 6 weeks after I sent the can with its parts in. The manufacturer is asking me to please locate the parts and that this cannot be a warranty repair as it is a 'regulatory' issue with the ATF..
The manufacturer is legally correct, you won't get parts from anyone(even my shop) without having all the parts to begin with. ATF considers them as "extra parts" and would make the manufacturer responsible should you find the parts. Not a risk that any manufacturer would take for a few bucks.
extremelyslow2014 wrote:Does anybody see any possible solution to this? I've asked the indoor range if they ever turned up the missing baffles & cap and they say they never found them. I was told that sometimes a suppressor can be re-serialized or destroyed (ie, flattened) and then evidence shown to the ATF of its destruction, so that it can subsequently be replaced..(?)
No a suppressor can not be reserialized, even if the tube is destroyed with proof. ATF says....

Q: If the outer tube is destroyed or damaged beyond repair, may it be replaced?
A: Unless the outer tube is replaced by the manufacturer prior to its removal from the manufacturing premises for purposes of sale or distribution, the replacement of the outer tube amounts to the making of a new silencer.

Unfortunately the only solution there is is your finding all the parts and then we would be more than happy to help you.

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Re: broken suppressor - now a paperweight?

Post by Historian » Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:13 pm

Is the manufacturer in the Witness Protection Program which
precludes your naming them? :) :)

And a 'cap pistol' rimfire can popping its guts??? Wow!

Hate to see what they are selling for larger rounds.

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Bendersquint
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Re: broken suppressor - now a paperweight?

Post by Bendersquint » Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:25 pm

Historian wrote:Is the manufacturer in the Witness Protection Program which
precludes your naming them? :) :)

And a 'cap pistol' rimfire can popping its guts??? Wow!

Hate to see what they are selling for larger rounds.
I don't think it matters WHO the manufacturer is as far as their unwillingness or to break the law and sell silencer parts.

I am personally curious to why the cap and guts blew off/out though.

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Re: broken suppressor - now a paperweight?

Post by CThomas » Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:24 pm

Op do not take this the wrong way but did you really make an effort to find the parts?
I just find it hard to believe that a malfunctin in a 22 can could send the parts into the abyss.

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Re: broken suppressor - now a paperweight?

Post by a_canadian » Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:56 pm

Perhaps renting a metal detector and bringing good lighting to the range after hours might turn it up. Then again, perhaps the can is not in itself worth such an effort. I mean if it blew apart after 5 shots, something wasn't right. Perhaps the barrel threading is crooked? If not, then I'd be looking for a refund, after having the threading checked by a qualified smith and certified as concentric to the bore.

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Re: broken suppressor - now a paperweight?

Post by Capt. Link. » Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:29 pm

There must be a way to declare these missing parts as lost in the eyes of the BATFE.You have the proverbial paper weight until you get approval from the feds or the parts are found.Best of luck with this puzzle.
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Re: broken suppressor - now a paperweight?

Post by Historian » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:27 am

Bendersquint wrote:
Historian wrote:Is the manufacturer in the Witness Protection Program which
precludes your naming them? :) :)

And a 'cap pistol' rimfire can popping its guts??? Wow!

Hate to see what they are selling for larger rounds.
I don't think it matters WHO the manufacturer is as far as their unwillingness or to break the law and sell silencer parts.

I am personally curious to why the cap and guts blew off/out though.
Of course! That is NOT the issue.

Enquiring minds want to know 'WHAT CAN' is so shoddily made that a .22 can blow it down range.

What were its internals, e.g., washers, K's, mongrel hybrid?

Plastic cut outs from soda bottles recycled from sturdier
made suppressors by gentle folk in East L.A. or South Philly? :) :)

Really, it is an affront for an established vendor to sell a potentially dangerous
product.

To be precise, with no intent of causing offense nor misunderstanding, humbly, what was the physical
design, dimensions, material, internals, and ammo shot through this dangerous grenade-launcher manqué?

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Re: broken suppressor - now a paperweight?

Post by doubloon » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:40 am

I don't understand how the baffles, cap, etc. could have "sailed downrange into the target".

That sounds like a hella lotta power for 22lr. Or maybe the target was rally close. Or maybe the baffles were really light like soda bottle caps.

I mostly have a lot of questions about the ammo, host, baffle and can material that could lead to such an event.

Can't help on the workaround other than shoulda looked harder for the busted parts. Saying "I lost my baffles" to the ATF probably doesn't impress them much.
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Re: broken suppressor - now a paperweight?

Post by ncorry » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:58 am

Something smells off here. Indoor range, missing baffle stack, 22 can and atomic vaporization of baffles?

ETA- and first post.

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Re: broken suppressor - now a paperweight?

Post by a_canadian » Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:52 am

Oh yeah... I overlooked the 'indoor' part. That is super fishy. What kind of indoor range floor makes it easy to lose baffles? Sounds very unlikely.

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Re: broken suppressor - now a paperweight?

Post by twodollarbill » Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:05 pm

a_canadian wrote:Oh yeah... I overlooked the 'indoor' part. That is super fishy. What kind of indoor range floor makes it easy to lose baffles? Sounds very unlikely.
I think this story has mouth with a hook in it. :D

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Re: broken suppressor - now a paperweight?

Post by extremelyslow2014 » Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:34 pm

appreciate the replies.. Here are some specifics..

I was shooting a Ruger SR-22 with an aftermarket threaded barrel, and the target was close - 15' or so. I think I will take the barrel to a 'smith & have it confirmed concentric - good idea there. This is the barrel that I was using:
http://www.twintechtactical.com/SR22TB.html

I was at an indoor range in Kentucky, and I was kinda dumbfounded as to how the cap & baffles 'projectiled' downrange, but that's exactly what happened. Tons of people there shooting as well. I think it was Labor Day weekend. I did nothing except take the can out of the box & thread it onto the barrel.

When I realized what had happened, we had a cease fire, and the range sent an employee out onto the range to look around for the baffles & cap - no luck. I called back later that night to see if they had turned up - again no luck. I don't suspect that they 'atomized', but I suspect that the range wanted the range open and the search was 'made more brief'.

Sounds like I'm hosed.. I'll try to get the barrel looked at soon, though.. Maybe today or this weekend.

Thanks!

extremelyslow2014
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Re: broken suppressor - now a paperweight?

Post by extremelyslow2014 » Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:37 pm

I don't recall what the ammo was - it was factory (obv..) Remington I believe.

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Re: broken suppressor - now a paperweight?

Post by RPM509 » Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:48 pm

Wholly dependent upon the energy transferred from the bullet, to the various parts of the suppressor, the parts could be embedded in soft wall, cieling or range baffle material. Bet if you physically went to that range right when they opened, or right before they close for the day, explain the situation and importance of you retrieving the parts, they may allow a more thorough search.
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Re: broken suppressor - now a paperweight?

Post by hardcase » Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:17 pm

To extremelyslow2014,

I'm not trying to slam you, just a few questions to help figure out the problem.

In order for me to not have the same problem a couple questions:

1) Did you shoot your gun first at paper with this ammo without the can to see if it key-holed?
2) What brand, bullet and other description of ammo did you use?

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Re: broken suppressor - now a paperweight?

Post by srs » Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:48 pm

I would call the ATF and ask if you provided an affidavit from yourself and a the range as to what happened, would they grant written permission to the original manufacturer or another 07/02 to repair the suppressor.

There has to be a reasonable solution for this type of problem. When you call them, write down any info you get; time, person you spoke to, responses, etc. Document this with a followup registered letter and keep a copy of the letter and receipt.

Good luck.

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Re: broken suppressor - now a paperweight?

Post by doubloon » Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:49 pm

extremelyslow2014 wrote:I don't recall what the ammo was - it was factory (obv..) Remington I believe.
No worries.

Still sounds "odd" but sometimes odd things happen. Mostly my desire to understand is driven by wanting to avoid the situation myself.
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Re: broken suppressor - now a paperweight?

Post by Bendersquint » Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:01 pm

srs wrote:I would call the ATF and ask if you provided an affidavit from yourself and a the range as to what happened, would they grant written permission to the original manufacturer or another 07/02 to repair the suppressor.

There has to be a reasonable solution for this type of problem. When you call them, write down any info you get; time, person you spoke to, responses, etc. Document this with a followup registered letter and keep a copy of the letter and receipt.

Good luck.
Won't happen it would set a precedent that the NFA Branch doesn't want out there.

BTW - We researched this option for several years and it was always NO.

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Re: broken suppressor - now a paperweight?

Post by srs » Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:36 pm

Yet another reason to remove what should be an OSHA required safety device from the NFA.....

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Re: broken suppressor - now a paperweight?

Post by Bendersquint » Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:38 pm

srs wrote:Yet another reason to remove what should be an OSHA required safety device from the NFA.....
OSHA requirement for firearms? That's a good one.

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Re: broken suppressor - now a paperweight?

Post by Kramer » Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:35 pm

Bendersquint wrote:
srs wrote:I would call the ATF and ask if you provided an affidavit from yourself and a the range as to what happened, would they grant written permission to the original manufacturer or another 07/02 to repair the suppressor.

There has to be a reasonable solution for this type of problem. When you call them, write down any info you get; time, person you spoke to, responses, etc. Document this with a followup registered letter and keep a copy of the letter and receipt.

Good luck.
Won't happen it would set a precedent that the NFA Branch doesn't want out there.

BTW - We researched this option for several years and it was always NO.
Speaking of Precedents a thunderbeast centerfire can blew its guts downrange, they never found the parts, but rebuilt the can.


In regards to the OP, I guarantee whomever went downrange clipped the baffles and end cap. That stuff just doesn't disappear, unless it was made in Malaysia.

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Re: broken suppressor - now a paperweight?

Post by 66427vette » Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:47 pm

Was just thinking about the guy with the thunder beast 338 . Lol

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Re: broken suppressor - now a paperweight?

Post by Historian » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:49 am

Looking for the Higgs Boson was simpler. The critical missing parameter
still not given and simple me might be continually missing due to impatient reading habits:

What was the suppressor and its design that flew apart?

If this most essential variable is not presented then further expenditure of mental energy is
wasted and "Who G.A.S." :)

If the above repeated query is still made in a too complex sentence structure:

what is the [ expletive deleted ]
can that supposedly blew up!

Back to an easier inquiry:
what quantum symmetry applies to conservation of Black Matter.

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