Basic questions about suppressor use indoors

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Gear Dog
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Basic questions about suppressor use indoors

Post by Gear Dog » Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:35 pm

My interest in a suppressor is to quiet a home defense handgun so that during a confrontation, my wife or I will not go deaf or otherwise be sound-shocked. I have a couple of questions related to this, and hope you can help.

1. Will a suppressed 9mm handgun be tolerable inside a house without other ear protection? Would it need to be subsonic to the tolerable? What is the sound experience like?
2. For my situation, would a suppressed 22lr be a good alternative? I'm thinking of a standard velocity round such as a mini-mag. I know there are strong opinions about the 22lr as a defensive round, and I'm mostly asking about sound suppression aspects.

Thanks for helping a noob :roll:

paper9
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Re: Basic questions about suppressor use indoors

Post by paper9 » Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:44 pm

Search Fireman1291, here or youtube, I think he did some effort in this subject.

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Re: Basic questions about suppressor use indoors

Post by Gear Dog » Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:18 am

paper9 wrote:Search Fireman1291, here or youtube, I think he did some effort in this subject.
Found two videos! Thanks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2GchQ3o ... ion_623376

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A63oYgo ... freload=10

I am very impressed with the sound reduction AND flash reduction. Wow. I'm sold.

It seems to me if you have a defensive gun and can afford the added expense, a suppressor is insurance for your hearing. I've already got some tinnitus in one ear, and definitely don't want it to worsen. :o

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jdasilva
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Re: Basic questions about suppressor use indoors

Post by jdasilva » Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:16 am

They are a lot louder indoors. Still better than nothing though. Shoot one in an indoor range w/out your ear pro on & you'll get an idea

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Re: Basic questions about suppressor use indoors

Post by batman4706 » Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:16 am

I'm a retired LEO and I shot a guy inside a Camero several times. I never head a single shot nor did I notice a flash (it was a night). Even though it was inside the car, my ears didn't even ring afterwards.

In a situation like self defense you'll never notice the sound or flash.

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Re: Basic questions about suppressor use indoors

Post by paper9 » Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:04 am

Were you and the perp inside the Camaro together?

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Re: Basic questions about suppressor use indoors

Post by DMY » Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:06 am

I was in a room where a 9mm semi auto pistol was shot. My ears did ring for a short while (for seconds, not minutes) and I remember thinking "What was that bang? What's wrong with my hearing???" before I quickly figured out a gun had been shot. However, I was not in a self defense situation at the time so maybe that has something to do with it. When the adrenaline is going it might be different...

Also, someone here mentioned that using a suppressor for self defense could lead to enhanced penalties if you make a bad decision and use force when not allowed. For instance, let's say you shoot someone in your house and the self defense rule does not apply (for any number of reasons, varying by state.) You will be charged with a crime and if found guilty put in jail for X years. You may also be subject to additional charges for using the suppressor in the perpetration of that crime, and if found guilty of that second charge of unlawfully using a suppressor, can be put in jail for an additional Y years. If you rightfully use a suppressor for self defense then I don't see much of a problem (consult lawyer first) but you better be right!

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Re: Basic questions about suppressor use indoors

Post by m1garand30064 » Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:38 am

I have shot a sig 226 and a Spanish destroyer worth a tirant 9 indoors. We usually shot wet and it is incredible. I would compare it to a plate dropping.
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Re: Basic questions about suppressor use indoors

Post by dtom29 » Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:04 am

DMY wrote:I was in a room where a 9mm semi auto pistol was shot. My ears did ring for a short while (for seconds, not minutes) and I remember thinking "What was that bang? What's wrong with my hearing???" before I quickly figured out a gun had been shot. However, I was not in a self defense situation at the time so maybe that has something to do with it. When the adrenaline is going it might be different...

Also, someone here mentioned that using a suppressor for self defense could lead to enhanced penalties if you make a bad decision and use force when not allowed. For instance, let's say you shoot someone in your house and the self defense rule does not apply (for any number of reasons, varying by state.) You will be charged with a crime and if found guilty put in jail for X years. You may also be subject to additional charges for using the suppressor in the perpetration of that crime, and if found guilty of that second charge of unlawfully using a suppressor, can be put in jail for an additional Y years. If you rightfully use a suppressor for self defense then I don't see much of a problem (consult lawyer first) but you better be right!
I'm sorry but I find your reply just a little "out there"...You advise not using a suppressor because you might go to jail longer in a bad shoot?? really? "I shot the wrong guy, but thank God I didn't use a silencer...now I'll only be in for 20 years and who cares about the dead guy"
Also batman shot a guy from in a car and because the adrenaline(sp) was running he had no ringing in his ears? Sorry but ear damage is ear damage. It did damage your ears you didn't notice it because of the excitment but there was damage done. I don't know where the idea came from that if you shoot at the range without ear protection you will have ear damage but if your excited during a self defense shoot the sound somehow doesn't reach your inter ear to cause the same damage. There is a huge difference in sound reduction between a full length suppressor and a "short" model. if you go with something as light as a TiRant or Infinity I wouldn't go short. JMO

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Prince Yamato
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Re: Basic questions about suppressor use indoors

Post by Prince Yamato » Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:08 pm

I've shot cans at an indoor range without hearing protection (range was empty at the time). The indoor range by me is a concrete echo chamber. It was not as quiet as shooting suppressed and outside, but WAY quieter than without a can.

The answer is it will be loud, but tolerable.

You might set off a smoke detector, though, which will be louder than the suppressed gunshot.

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Re: Basic questions about suppressor use indoors

Post by rimshaker » Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:50 pm

Using subsonic defense rounds will definitely reduce the overall loudness indoors.

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Re: Basic questions about suppressor use indoors

Post by quietoldfart » Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:55 pm

Gear Dog wrote: 2. For my situation, would a suppressed 22lr be a good alternative? I'm thinking of a standard velocity round such as a mini-mag. I know there are strong opinions about the 22lr as a defensive round, and I'm mostly asking about sound suppression aspects.
I've no directly relevant experience in terms of use of a handgun for home defense, but in terms of using a well-suppressed .22"LR handgun indoors with slightly subsonic rounds (CCI Standard and Federal bulk go through my pistol between 900 and 1050fps respectively) I'd describe the noise as slightly alarming but nowhere nearly painful. I certainly find the noise of slower loads (CCI Quiet at about 570fps) much more comfortable. My son says these sound almost exactly like the tiniest 'ladyfinger' firecrackers. I don't hear the sharp part of that sound. Difference between young and old ears I guess.

As for use of such ammunition for stopping or discouraging a human attacker... I'd say it is possible given a) good accuracy under stressful circumstances and b) willingness and ability to place multiple shots on target should it prove necessary, if the fellow does not respond by falling or fleeing. With the ~30fpe quiet stuff, given the complete lack of expansion, I suspect it'd be a bit of a gamble. May work, but the odds aren't fantastic. I'd suggest using something at least 900fps and 40gr (72fpe) for a more significant effect. Your hearing will still be safe with a decent suppressor at that power. Going supersonic with even a very good suppressor may end up hurting your eardrums.

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Re: Basic questions about suppressor use indoors

Post by Historian » Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:45 pm

Also consider keeping a pair something like
Howard Leight QB1HYG Quiet Bands Hearing Protectors*
next to firearm. Fast and easy to slip on while readying the piece.

My Polish buddy called them "Polish SIlencers". :)

* e.g., << http://www.magidglove.com/Howard-Leight ... 7AodOTgAfA >>

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Re: Basic questions about suppressor use indoors

Post by Gear Dog » Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:01 pm

Historian wrote:Also consider keeping a pair something like
Howard Leight QB1HYG Quiet Bands Hearing Protectors*
next to firearm. Fast and easy to slip on while readying the piece.

My Polish buddy called them "Polish SIlencers". :)

* e.g., << http://www.magidglove.com/Howard-Leight ... 7AodOTgAfA >>
Each member of my family has a set of Howard Leight R-01902. We owned some of the cheaper models but these are far better, in my opinion, and worth every single penny. They are so comfortable and quiet, we can shoot several hours without fatigue and don't have to shout to hear one another, either.

http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-R-01902 ... ard+leight

Our neighborhood had a rash of burglaries last Spring and the a-holes entered several homes at night while the homeowners were asleep (our house got hit, but it was during the day with no one home). Since then, I prepare every night for the possibility of intruders. I set out the headphones for all family members on a dresser, and make sure my tactical 12 gauge is ready to go from the quick opening safe. I regularly rehearse quickly putting on the phones and taking the shotgun to a shooting position.

However, I've got a pistol downstairs (Ruger SR22) for my wife to use during the day and I don't think she would grab headphones, so I'm thinking of investing in a suppressor, which is what inspired me to start this thread. We may make a trip to a retail store and range and try out an M&P Shield in 9mm, and if she can handle it, then I'll trade in the SR22 and suppress the Shield instead.

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Re: Basic questions about suppressor use indoors

Post by a_canadian » Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:16 pm

My concern with headphones would be that they potentially limit one's ability to hear someone sneaking up on you. Burglars may be noisy, but I wouldn't count on it. Even if it's only blocking a few dB, doesn't it seem possible that you could miss an intruder's location for a precious second or two while they approach you from the side or behind? I'd rather have a suppressed weapon or a baseball bat and open ears, frankly.

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Re: Basic questions about suppressor use indoors

Post by Gear Dog » Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:14 pm

a_canadian wrote:My concern with headphones would be that they potentially limit one's ability to hear someone sneaking up on you. Burglars may be noisy, but I wouldn't count on it. Even if it's only blocking a few dB, doesn't it seem possible that you could miss an intruder's location for a precious second or two while they approach you from the side or behind? I'd rather have a suppressed weapon or a baseball bat and open ears, frankly.
That's the great things about these headphones. They have microphones on each earcup, and magnify the outside sound and play them into your ears. You can hear everything fine. But then it clips any sounds above a certain volume, aka, gun shots.

Actually, you can turn up the volume loud enough that a whisper can be heard even more easily than without the headphones! The only downside is that you have to put them on and turn them on, but I can do it in 2 sec.

AMAZING technology all shooters should have

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Re: Basic questions about suppressor use indoors

Post by glocker17 » Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:27 pm

'm a retired LEO and I shot a guy inside a Camero several times. I never head a single shot nor did I notice a flash (it was a night). Even though it was inside the car, my ears didn't even ring afterwards.

In a situation like self defense you'll never notice the sound or flash.
This!

You are way overthinking this, if you have a gunfight in your home, the slight hearing discomfort is the least of your concern. Personally, I would not compromise the reliability of a combat handgun by adding a can (It will be less reliable in general). Certainly not if I thought there was a good chance to use it.

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Re: Basic questions about suppressor use indoors

Post by doubloon » Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:29 pm

Gear Dog wrote:...
AMAZING technology all shooters should have
Have some, remembering to change the batteries is a problem for me sometimes.

The first time I tried them I thought a dump truck was doing donuts in my front yard, took me a minute to figure out it was the compressor on the refrigerator.
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Re: Basic questions about suppressor use indoors

Post by dan9591 » Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:56 pm

Seriously? Where did you come up with this load of utter bullshit? Show me the case file!
DMY wrote:
Also, someone here mentioned that using a suppressor for self defense could lead to enhanced penalties if you make a bad decision and use force when not allowed. For instance, let's say you shoot someone in your house and the self defense rule does not apply (for any number of reasons, varying by state.) You will be charged with a crime and if found guilty put in jail for X years. You may also be subject to additional charges for using the suppressor in the perpetration of that crime, and if found guilty of that second charge of unlawfully using a suppressor, can be put in jail for an additional Y years. If you rightfully use a suppressor for self defense then I don't see much of a problem (consult lawyer first) but you better be right!

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Re: Basic questions about suppressor use indoors

Post by dan9591 » Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:01 pm

Threads like this remind me why I don't visit this forum as often as I used to...

Any flavor of 22 as a defensive round is inadequate. Who are you? James Bond making perfect head shots every time? This is NOT just on opinion...

Assuming that you or anyone else will don ear pro during a home invasion is ridiculous.

Worrying about the legal consequences of using a suppressor during a self defense situation is the stuff of fantasy.

Seriously, re-examine your assumptions and knowledge of suppression and defense and then post a more coherent question.

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Re: Basic questions about suppressor use indoors

Post by Gear Dog » Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:41 pm

dan9591 wrote:Threads like this remind me why I don't visit this forum as often as I used to...

Any flavor of 22 as a defensive round is inadequate. Who are you? James Bond making perfect head shots every time? This is NOT just on opinion...

Assuming that you or anyone else will don ear pro during a home invasion is ridiculous.

Worrying about the legal consequences of using a suppressor during a self defense situation is the stuff of fantasy.

Seriously, re-examine your assumptions and knowledge of suppression and defense and then post a more coherent question.
Putting on the headphones is no more ridiculous than anything else one might do in such a situation. Practicing ahead of time is the key and like I said, I'm quick. Consider what happens if you don't plan ahead for your hearing? A shots is fired and you can't communicate well with your wife or other family. Or you are yelling to be heard, and giving away all of your positions. Suppressors are one option but maybe not the only viable one. I've spent about $200 for hearing protection for all, and a single suppressor costs closer to $1000 with all the stamps and such. Maybe I'll get one, but then I have to save up for that. Until then I'm doing what I can.

Regarding the 22lr, I'm no expert, but a lot of people have investigated the viability of the round, and have convinced me of it, so I haven't given up on it yet, at least as a starter gun for my wife. It's that or give her a bag of rocks.

I'm not James Bond, but I am thinking this through all the time. And I'm trying to get smarter and that's what brought me here. I try to be polite and all but I'm getting tired of being bullied on forums just because I haven't been a member for a long time. Save your insults for someone else, please.

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Re: Basic questions about suppressor use indoors

Post by a_canadian » Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:04 am

I wouldn't take it personally. There seem to be .45" elite bullies in every shooting forum... except airgun forums. There the .45" guys shooting deer with big bore PCP rifles tend to just share their experiences and smaller calibre guys either aspire to try the big loud things or simply smile and nod and carry on shooting tiny pellets and enjoying it. No need for name calling there. But yeah, a percentage seem to get downright edgy about how everyone should carry a desert eagle or something. Kind of funny really. Of course a bigger, more powerful round is preferable in an emergency. But a .22" is better than nothing.

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Re: Basic questions about suppressor use indoors

Post by Tony M. » Sun Nov 02, 2014 1:59 am

dan9591 wrote: Any flavor of 22 as a defensive round is inadequate. Who are you? James Bond making perfect head shots every time? This is NOT just on opinion...
There was a study a while ago that actually showed that the .22 was nearly as effective as a defensive caliber in real world situations as the .45, and the .32 (acp and long) had the best incapacitation rate of all the handgun calibers studied.

Don't get me wrong, I think the .45 is a better defensive round than the .22, but if I had the choice between a .22 and a sharp stick, I'd take the .22 every time.

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Re: Basic questions about suppressor use indoors

Post by a_canadian » Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:14 am

I wonder which would get me a longer sentence here in the North, defending myself with a sharp stick or with a .22"? Another family invaded last night a few miles from me. Couple of thugs, young father knifed while investigating the smashed garage door. He'll live. Something like logic tells me he'd not have been knifed had he been properly trained in the use of a pistol and had one in his hand. But then... how much prison time might he have faced?

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Re: Basic questions about suppressor use indoors

Post by continuity » Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:15 am

Here ya go.

Cranking a round off, inside or outside, is gonna be LOUD, especially w/o hearing protection. A suppressor is going to mitigate that event. The physics of the event includes localized pressure wave(s) induced by the gas expansion. The higher the chamber pressure of the round, the more acute the sonic energy. Subsonic round(s) 9mm/45acp/300 blk...etc, reduce the physiological impact.

Unless you're a super secret, seal team 99, mall ninja kinda expert, with regular experience in engaging deadly threats, at the point of preparatory contact, your adrenaline level is gonna be though the roof. You won't remember your hearing protection, you won't really be cognizant of where your family members are, and quite bluntly, you will be absolutely focused on addressing "the threat". It is what it is.

One thing going for you is the physiological phenomena of "Auditory Exclusion", in which a stressful evolution tends to reduce the impact of a sonic signature on the involved person(s). (goggle it)

Have bailed out of a cruiser several times with a rifle. My variant is a suppressed (YMH 7.62 Phantom) 10-1/2" barreled M16. Never fired it in any of those evolutions. Seems every m'fin time I've left my cool microphone headset hearing protection in the car. But I'm just a stupid government employee.

As a note, the isssued M16 is deployed with personally owned upper and suppressor.

As a further note, I have no interest in protecting my castle, at the threat engagement ranges that eventuality would provide, with a rifle. As a matter of fact, I have no interest in deploying a pistol for that evolution, supressed or not. My personal preference is a 12g (pump) shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot. My go to is a NFA'ed 14" barreled Rem 870.

Not intending to derail the thread, but suggest the OP dig deep inside and understand exactly what the objective is.

Peace.
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