Basic questions about suppressor use indoors

[Gear Dog]

Thanks everybody. Our bedrooms are upstairs - which is where the 12 gauge is located in a quick access safe. Works fine for me but wife overwhelmed by it. Downstairs is another safe where I have a Ruger 10/22 rifle and SR22. My wife can shoot either of these comfortably.

One thing I did not intend to get into, but is REALLY important, is that home security should have layers to it. Guns are only one piece, but the subject always seems to raise lots of questions so I keep returning to firearms forums.

Below are most of my 'layers' for anyone interested. I upgraded a whole bunch after our burglary, and boy it was a ton of work but also interesting.

By the way, we moved into our present house several years ago in part because we thought it would be safer. Wrong!

1. IP camera system with DVR that can be viewed remotely, with cameras overlooking all entry doors to house and garage, some looking at perimeter, plus a couple pointed inside the house at places burglars would spend time rummaging (if thieves return I want to ID them).

2. Signs around the property warning about the camera and the alarm system

3. Privacy fence: Strong locks not easily cut or picked, and reinforced anchor points for the gates on our privacy fence. (The thieves kicked open our gate to haul away stuff, and they can't do that easily again.)

4. Cellular based home security/fire system that can be controlled from a cell phone, and a horn on our front porch. (when our alarm went off, the police responded, but because the only buzzer is inside the house, no neighbors were aware of what happened)

5. High security doors and frames for our rear doors to the house and garage entry door (most doors can simply be kick-in because the door frame gives away before the lock). Three doors rarely used also have a removable brace.

6. We are in the process of replacing our old single-pane windows with new double-pane windows with very strong glass.

7. Inside the garage, lawn mower and ladders are all locked down. Inside the house, most expensive electronics are locked down.

8. Passwords on all handhelds and computers, with auto-backup of our files.

9. Pepper spray and panic buttons just inside entry doors near to house (in case cannot get to firearms fast enough)

10. High capacity fire extinguisher in the kitchen and bedroom area

11. Spare house key, light stick, and floor plan, and list of human occupants and pets, to toss out a bedroom window to cops or fire department if we get trapped inside. I keep this inside the bedroom safe.

12. Several escape routes and barricade points mapped out

13. Firearms...

14. Membership at a range - need to use it more often

15. We are planning to get concealed carry licenses

16. I take martial arts on and off, and wish my wife would do the same. She is naturally aware of her surroundings and I am working very hard to develop this skill.

17. Vehicle safety is another project altogether I won't get into here.

18. Home inventory of stuff (photos, serial numbers, receipts) stored in a safety deposit box, along with other important documents (birth certificates, marriage cert, investment info).

19. In my city, there is an online map where they post crime reports by location, type, and date. I read these periodically to try and learn tactics and motivations.

One thing I need to do better is train the family. Everyone is good about locking up stuff, but we need to rehearse escape and barricade plans for responding to fires or intruders.

Anyway, hopefully this is educational for some

[DMY]

Seriously? Where did you come up with this load of utter bullshit? Show me the case file!

This is a start: http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/Silencer-caselaw.pdf I said there was a chance. Maybe I'll dig through the cases and explain it to you if you're paying me $300 an hour. Just maybe. I am kind of busy.

Also, I am not suggesting that you'll be thinking of the legal ramifications of using a suppressor when you're about to draw your weapon. You should be thinking about that long before... like when you're choosing a nightstand gun setup or a carry setup. That's just common sense that most people use without even thinking about it.

I am suggesting that you might not be thinking 100% clearly when you hear something go bump in the night and roll out of bed looking to engage an intruder. People shoot other people thinking they're entitled to self defense when they're not due to bad judgement, misunderstanding the law, etc. Yes, it happens. No, I am not digging up cases.

[doubloon]

Seriously? Where did you come up with this load of utter bullshit? Show me the case file!

This is a start: http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/Silencer-caselaw.pdf ...

I guess you'd have to be found guilty of a "bad shoot", maybe something like walking in on your daughter and her boyfriend bumping uglies somewhere in your house and popping him with your suppressed weapon. But it isn't required for anyone to end up dead for something to be a "crime of violence".

One of the harshest penalties in the federal system is a 30-year mandatory minimum sentence for possession of a silencer (used to reduce the noise of a gunshot) during a "crime of violence" or drug trafficking:

The reference in 18 U.S.C. he's making

(c)
(1)
(A) Except to the extent that a greater minimum sentence is otherwise provided by this subsection or by any other provision of law, any person who, during and in relation to any crime of violence or drug trafficking crime (including a crime of violence or drug trafficking crime that provides for an enhanced punishment if committed by the use of a deadly or dangerous weapon or device) for which the person may be prosecuted in a court of the United States, uses or carries a firearm, or who, in furtherance of any such crime, possesses a firearm, shall, in addition to the punishment provided for such crime of violence or drug trafficking crime—
(i) be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 5 years;
(ii) if the firearm is brandished, be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 7 years; and
(iii) if the firearm is discharged, be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 10 years.
(B) If the firearm possessed by a person convicted of a violation of this subsection—
(i) is a short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun, or semiautomatic assault weapon, the person shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 10 years; or
(ii) is a machinegun or a destructive device, or is equipped with a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, the person shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 30 years.

[Gear Dog]

Seriously? Where did you come up with this load of utter bullshit? Show me the case file!

This is a start: http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/Silencer-caselaw.pdf I said there was a chance. Maybe I'll dig through the cases and explain it to you if you're paying me $300 an hour. Just maybe. I am kind of busy.

Also, I am not suggesting that you'll be thinking of the legal ramifications of using a suppressor when you're about to draw your weapon. You should be thinking about that long before... like when you're choosing a nightstand gun setup or a carry setup. That's just common sense that most people use without even thinking about it.

I am suggesting that you might not be thinking 100% clearly when you hear something go bump in the night and roll out of bed looking to engage an intruder. People shoot other people thinking they're entitled to self defense when they're not due to bad judgement, misunderstanding the law, etc. Yes, it happens. No, I am not digging up cases.

Well, I scanned the article, and it seems to address cases where suppressors are illegally possessed and used for one purpose or another. If one lives in a state where they are legal, and has jumped through the appropriate legal hoops to get one, then is there still a danger of using one in self defense? Does the use of a suppressor - in every state and circumstance - constitute a crime?

[doubloon]

...
Well, I scanned the article, and it seems to address cases where suppressors are illegally possessed and used ...

I read it to mean it doesn't matter if the suppressor is legally owned or not.

The suppressor has only to be in use at the time the crime of violence is committed. Manslaughter, rape, etc. whatever is defined as a crime of violence.

The "danger" of using one in self defense is if you are found guilty of manslaughter, murder, rape ...a crime of violence. But, an extra 30 years on top of whatever you get for murder doesn't seem worth worrying about.

ETA: And actually it's not an "extra" 30 years it's just a 30 year minimum.

[DMY]

Well, I scanned the article, and it seems to address cases where suppressors are illegally possessed and used for one purpose or another. If one lives in a state where they are legal, and has jumped through the appropriate legal hoops to get one, then is there still a danger of using one in self defense? Does the use of a suppressor - in every state and circumstance - constitute a crime?

If you use the suppressor properly in self defense you should be fine. If you use it wrongfully then you may be subject to additional charges. Doubloon gave a good example of wrongful use, where you shoot your daughter's boyfriend thinking he is an intruder presumably trying to hurt/kill her (ah the potential for jokes here!) That represents the general law, however your state may be different. You would have to contact a lawyer in your state to get legal advice.

[hardcase]

Once, when I was younger and dumber, I was wondering what it was like to shot my .40 S&W indoors. I had double doors off our den. Backed up against the far wall and let fly. Big mistake. My ears rang for 3 days but they did get better. In the heat of the situation, ringing ears would be the least of what I'd worry about.

As far as protecting your property here are a few tidbits. Don't put your "home" into your auto's GPS. A bad guy steals your car, uses the home feature to get to your house since you obviously are not home, uses the garage door opener to get in the garage, breaks in and is gone in 5 minutes. Get rid of, or move the red cord hanging down from your garage door opener to a place not so easy to get too like up on a short rope. It is easy to break the glass, reach in, and pull the cord down to release the catch and get the door up. The humming birds will be happy as well. We use to get them trapped in our garage trying to get nectar out of the red rope and handle.

[Historian]

And the classic but not so well known, especially if sleeping
quarters on second floor:

A bowl filled with 1/8" SS ball bearings. Tossed down the stairs
against approaching bad guy will make him flip like a a Max Sennet prat falling
"Fatty" Arbuckle silent movie comic.

And they are quickly picked back up with a magnet.

Friend told his girlfriend about my suggestion in the 1960's when there
were a rash of break ins and assaults on woman in the city.
One night she heard breaking glass of front door, her being upstairs.
She rolled the bearings from the bowl right there down the 14 marble stairs in the old brown stone
as intruder was rushing up. He fell, flipped over and landed on the entrance
marble floor. A quick 911 call brought the black and whites ASAP.

She later related, as she presented me in appreciation with a homemade moist chocolate
cake, apricot topping with more dark chocolate on it as a reward for
suggesting the bearings, that the LEOs were laughing uproariously when they
described how easy the perp was to spot running through the narrow streets on the hill.

" We saw the mutt stumbling, dragging his leg and holding his broken wrist in pain. Blood
from a scalp wound on his shirt, mumbling obscenities."

[Gear Dog]

Once, when I was younger and dumber, I was wondering what it was like to shot my .40 S&W indoors. I had double doors off our den. Backed up against the far wall and let fly. Big mistake. My ears rang for 3 days but they did get better. In the heat of the situation, ringing ears would be the least of what I'd worry about.

As far as protecting your property here are a few tidbits. Don't put your "home" into your auto's GPS. A bad guy steals your car, uses the home feature to get to your house since you obviously are not home, uses the garage door opener to get in the garage, breaks in and is gone in 5 minutes. Get rid of, or move the red cord hanging down from your garage door opener to a place not so easy to get too like up on a short rope. It is easy to break the glass, reach in, and pull the cord down to release the catch and get the door up. The humming birds will be happy as well. We use to get them trapped in our garage trying to get nectar out of the red rope and handle.

Hmm, I already knew the GPS trick but the pull cord on the garage door is new to me. I'll check it out!

We have sensors on both our entry and overhead doors for the garage, but that would not slow the 5 min thief you mention!

[Gear Dog]

And the classic but not so well known, especially if sleeping
quarters on second floor:

A bowl filled with 1/8" SS ball bearings. Tossed down the stairs
against approaching bad guy will make him flip like a a Max Sennet prat falling
"Fatty" Arbuckle silent movie comic.

And they are quickly picked back up with a magnet.

Friend told his girlfriend about my suggestion in the 1960's when there
were a rash of break ins and assaults on woman in the city.
One night she heard breaking glass of front door, her being upstairs.
She rolled the bearings from the bowl right there down the 14 marble stairs in the old brown stone
as intruder was rushing up. He fell, flipped over and landed on the entrance
marble floor. A quick 911 call brought the black and whites ASAP.

She later related, as she presented me in appreciation with a homemade moist chocolate
cake, apricot topping with more dark chocolate on it as a reward for
suggesting the bearings, that the LEOs were laughing uproariously when they
described how easy the perp was to spot running through the narrow streets on the hill.

" We saw the mutt stumbling, dragging his leg and holding his broken wrist in pain. Blood
from a scalp wound on his shirt, mumbling obscenities."

Ball bearings. I like it! Maybe some of those caltrops (spelling), too!

[paper9]

Or a garage door with no windows...

[Emilio]

Once, when I was younger and dumber, I was wondering what it was like to shot my .40 S&W indoors. I had double doors off our den. Backed up against the far wall and let fly. Big mistake. My ears rang for 3 days but they did get better. In the heat of the situation, ringing ears would be the least of what I'd worry about.

As far as protecting your property here are a few tidbits. Don't put your "home" into your auto's GPS. A bad guy steals your car, uses the home feature to get to your house since you obviously are not home, uses the garage door opener to get in the garage, breaks in and is gone in 5 minutes. Get rid of, or move the red cord hanging down from your garage door opener to a place not so easy to get too like up on a short rope. It is easy to break the glass, reach in, and pull the cord down to release the catch and get the door up. The humming birds will be happy as well. We use to get them trapped in our garage trying to get nectar out of the red rope and handle.

Hmm, I already knew the GPS trick but the pull cord on the garage door is new to me. I'll check it out!

We have sensors on both our entry and overhead doors for the garage, but that would not slow the 5 min thief you mention!

Any punk can read your registration or insurance card in the glove box.

Any punk can get into your garage without windows or cord. ( and they all know how)
>>>>> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LgwJXwKK3f4

[Historian]

Once, when I was younger and dumber, I was wondering what it was like to shot my .40 S&W indoors. I had double doors off our den. Backed up against the far wall and let fly. Big mistake. My ears rang for 3 days but they did get better. In the heat of the situation, ringing ears would be the least of what I'd worry about.

As far as protecting your property here are a few tidbits. Don't put your "home" into your auto's GPS. A bad guy steals your car, uses the home feature to get to your house since you obviously are not home, uses the garage door opener to get in the garage, breaks in and is gone in 5 minutes. Get rid of, or move the red cord hanging down from your garage door opener to a place not so easy to get too like up on a short rope. It is easy to break the glass, reach in, and pull the cord down to release the catch and get the door up. The humming birds will be happy as well. We use to get them trapped in our garage trying to get nectar out of the red rope and handle.

Hmm, I already knew the GPS trick but the pull cord on the garage door is new to me. I'll check it out!

We have sensors on both our entry and overhead doors for the garage, but that would not slow the 5 min thief you mention!

Any punk can read your registration or insurance card in the glove box.

Any punk can get into your garage without windows or cord. ( and they all know how)
>>>>> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LgwJXwKK3f4

Long ago during indoctrination the Security Director of the Group I started working for
ordered us never to leave registration or insurance data,
any job indicators whatsoever, badges, etc. in glove compartment,
but to carry them wallet. Any infraction would be take seriously and
clearances would be popped.

The surreptitious gathering of data by parking lot attendants or
intruder seeking intel could be used to compromise, track and point to
other employees, locations, patterns, etc.

Also, if stopped by an overly zealous LEO your reaching across to the glove box to retrieve the papers
in turn could serve as 'justification' for an extreme reaction on his part:

" ... he was reaching for what looked like a [ drop ] firearm , little
packets of white stuff [ which I did not plant ], etc. "

[Historian]

On the news item of flying false cell towers being used as trackers for
surveillance of a person's cell phone, even when turned off:

wrap cell phone, transmitter cards, etc. in a sheet of aluminum foil.

A Faraday Gage.*

Even Samaritan ( Person of Interest ) cannot track.



* << http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage >>

[Gear Dog]

Once, when I was younger and dumber, I was wondering what it was like to shot my .40 S&W indoors. I had double doors off our den. Backed up against the far wall and let fly. Big mistake. My ears rang for 3 days but they did get better. In the heat of the situation, ringing ears would be the least of what I'd worry about.

As far as protecting your property here are a few tidbits. Don't put your "home" into your auto's GPS. A bad guy steals your car, uses the home feature to get to your house since you obviously are not home, uses the garage door opener to get in the garage, breaks in and is gone in 5 minutes. Get rid of, or move the red cord hanging down from your garage door opener to a place not so easy to get too like up on a short rope. It is easy to break the glass, reach in, and pull the cord down to release the catch and get the door up. The humming birds will be happy as well. We use to get them trapped in our garage trying to get nectar out of the red rope and handle.

Hmm, I already knew the GPS trick but the pull cord on the garage door is new to me. I'll check it out!

We have sensors on both our entry and overhead doors for the garage, but that would not slow the 5 min thief you mention!

Any punk can read your registration or insurance card in the glove box.

Any punk can get into your garage without windows or cord. ( and they all know how)
>>>>> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LgwJXwKK3f4

Good points. Thanks.