G21 & G19 Octane HD Problems!

[midastouch]

Hello,

Im hoping someone here can provide insight and actual solutions to my problems. Here is the deal with a bit of background...
Im a comp shooter and have a range on my property of course so I shoot everyday. I do lots of "Long range" shooting out to 200yards with pistols but generally only to 80yards and my G21 @ G19 both gen 4 with oem barrels and any ammo shoot a LEGITIMATE 6min group at 100yards with just the iron (plastics) sights with me behind the fun stick. I picked up a Lone wolf threaded barrel for both and recently got my octane HD 45 can. With this new barrels both guns function and lockup flawless and maintain the same (otherwise unbelieveable) accuracy the factory tubes do. Problem is when the can is on the gun and there are no other variables it shoots complete erratically, not same consistency just different POI which I expected before hand as a possiblity but this is NOT THE CASE. It shoots like 60moa or worse groups completely randomly, I rotate the can using the notches on the piston to changes the baffle stack orientation and this does change the POI in a non concentric oval 60moa+ pattern.

Im also familiar with barrel harmonics and long range shooting as I also have 900yards in my front yard but this is not the problem here. The suppressor weight must be changing the barrel lockup (unlocking) at inconsistent times as the bullet is out of the barrel but the action is now out of battery yet the bullet has not exited the suppressor creating pressure spikes in different directions and duration at certain points in the stack. Same thing on the G19, just significantly quieter.

DRY, WET, torque settings appropriate, greased orings, I know guns and do my on smithing and ex professional race car mechanic so Im mechanically inclined and undestand physics but cant figure out how to fix this problem.

To add more information to this, with the fixed non piston adapter on my 300bo shooting 208amax out a custom 7.5in with just a reddot im shooting 2min groups at 200yards with or wo the can.

At this point both systems are only good for a nightstand gun for hearing protection because they are absolutely useless outside a cqc environment.

HELP?!

[Bendersquint]

Well the Glock is designed as a CQC weapon so I wouldn't be shocked that it doesn't perform as well outside those environment..

What did I miss?

[rimshaker]

Is the baffle stack aligned correctly? The notches have to be all lined up.

Gets a little tricky when the endcap is tightened down; sometimes the front baffles move clockwise.

[Emilio]

Well the Glock is designed as a CQC weapon so I wouldn't be shocked that it doesn't perform as well outside those environment..

What did I miss?

You missed a lot. he shoots Glocks well without the can. Many do, some don't and blame the gun.

[Emilio]

My question is are you used to aiming through the can? Could be the weight and lock up, have you broken in these barrels? Any marks on the baffles or end cap? Do you know anyone who has threaded pistols to try the cans on? Also try different loads with the cans. ( you reload?)

I don't have a G-21 but the Octane 45 on my 1911 is still very accurate and I shoot 1' steel @ 100 regularly and rather quickly. My Octane 9 on all hosts are accurate and EXTREEMLY with my G-34 (with tall sights.) I don't use the words EXTREEMLY often either.

Hope you figure it out.

[midastouch]

My question is are you used to aiming through the can? Could be the weight and lock up, have you broken in these barrels? Any marks on the baffles or end cap? Do you know anyone who has threaded pistols to try the cans on?

I don't have a G-21 but the Octane 45 on my 1911 is still very accurate and I shoot 1' steel @ 100 regularly and rather quickly. My Octane 9 on all hosts are accurate and EXTREEMLY with my G-34 (with tall sights.) I don't use the words EXTREEMLY often either.

Hope you figure it out.

Hello,
I double checked the baffle alignment and everything is tip top. The notches however do not align vertically (top or bottom precisely) in any orientation tho they are all in alignment relative to each other. They line up at either 11 o clock, 1 o clock, 5 o clock etc, never 6 or 12oclock relative to the bore.

Barrels have at least 500rds thru them before I put the can on to try, as I obviously needed to break in and build up some copper, they function flawlessly when the cans are not attach. I have a good sight picture and it I know a lot of people rightfully so blame the shooter but even shooting close at full size target it does not make one hole anymore. Is my baffle alignment not being perpendicular with the barrel the cause? I know when its on my 300 blk that the baffle are not and that shoots also unbelievably well.
As mentioned, there are some wear marks on the right side of the (outside exposed) chambers and on the front leading edge of the (also outside on top connecting with slide) wear marks.

[Emilio]

What ammo are you using? Warm? Sub sonic (9mm)? Sounds like you had stove pipes and the barrel is working harder to unlock with weight on it. Have you broken them in with the cans on them.

Test different ammo for sure and find someone with threaded pistols and try thier cans, that will tell you a lot.

[midastouch]

What ammo are you using? Warm? Sub sonic (9mm)? Sounds like you had stove pipes and the barrel is working harder to unlock with weight on it. Have you broken them in with the cans on them.

Test different ammo for sure and find someone with threaded pistols and try thier cans, that will tell you a lot.

4 different kinds of ammo thru the g19, from 115 supers to 147 subs, no failures of any kind. G21 3 different kinds of 230gr same thing no failures. Feels like reduced slide velocity but everything functions cleanly.

They both have the aforementioned round count plus at least 2 boxes of each variety of ammo


I dont know anyone who has a gun with a threaded barrel to try it on to see if anything changes.


Could the nielson device spring tension be too strong causing the static weight to become dynamic with the barrel rather than reduce the two movements

[midastouch]

nobody else with a glock have dramatically negative accuracy effects?

[Bendersquint]

nobody else with a glock have dramatically negative accuracy effects?

Nope...mine is still shooting as well as it was before I canned it.

[rimshaker]

nobody else with a glock have dramatically negative accuracy effects?

None here. My G19 and G21 with factory threaded barrels and Octane 45 gets boring after a few mags.... i'm just shooting through the same large hole

[BearTHIS]

I don't think I have anything to offer here (but maybe), so I'll just say... Who cares what your PISTOL groups are at 80 freaking yards?! You're obviously a good shot with your Glock! Yea, hanging 7"+ tube of Al & SS attached by a spring loaded piston is probably gonna throw things off at extreme handgun distances. Damn, I wish I could attain, much less practice, my handgunning at the distances you are (ie. I shoot a private club, not my own land, I would get way more grief for attempting that range w/ a handgun).

[Deavis]

I have an Octane on a 1911 Colt Commander with an Ed Brown barrel.

Accuracy sucks. My POI/POI shift is 1" per YARD.

I'd like to solve this.

I bought a piston for my Glock 23 to see if it will perform on there, but really want it to run the 1911.

[fishman]

My POI/POI shift is 1" per YARD.

I'd like to solve this.

So adjust your sights...

[Deavis]

My POI/POI shift is 1" per YARD.

I'd like to solve this.

So adjust your sights...

Group sizes suck too.

[cdl]

I couldn't resist, my first post here.

I have a G21 and G19 with Wolff barrels, a Commander with the Ed Brown barrel and a 9mm AR with a 5.5" barrel and a 3 lug. I've seen a few these problems, but clean and tight my Octane HD shoots great on all of them. I'll throw a few of my observations out there though. Hopefully pick a few up too.

On my 9mm AR the Octane HD just plain works great. Mag after mag, it stays tight and just stacks the bullets in. It's a pleasure that brings smiles to my face.

On the pistols with the "piston" installed... one pistol is no better than the other, though I think "brick" when I pick up my G21.

I can see the impact change drastically (by feet) just before the can will feel lose. No baffle strikes. I make it "tight" and it comes back on, course it still loosens and needs to be checked often. The caps loosen too. Both front and rear. When they stop loosening is when I find disassembly a real hassle.

I destroyed a 9mm cap double tapping my G19. Chewed it up real good. The piston just couldn't keep up. Wish I'd read that somewhere first. This is when my epiphany set in. First, don't dbl tap an Octane... Second, since just rotating the suppressor can change the impact, having it bounce around on a piston has to be bad for consistency. Just the unburnt powder can change the alignment. Wire pull gel seems to keep things a little smoother a little longer but what a mess. None of this is an issue on my rifle so I blame it on the necessary evil of a "piston".

Hopefully I inspired some insight.

[Deavis]

I will definitely check tightness of components on next outing.

I get massively gassed in the face too. It does not make for an enjoyable experience.

[hammerdown12]

I will definitely check tightness of components on next outing.

I get massively gassed in the face too. It does not make for an enjoyable experience.

One word: spring. I converted my my G32 .357 Sig to .40 with a threaded lone Wolf barrel. .357 and .40 use same spring so it was only a barrel swap to convert. Running my Octane 45, huge gas in face and shrapnel too. It also was having occasional (1 in 20-30) FTFs. I Swapped the stock (18 lbs I think on my model) spring and guiderod out for a lone Wolf 22 lb one. Fixed FTF issue and reduced gas and shrapnel down alot, snapping that slide shut faster.

Could try a heavier spring on your gun. They are cheap...About $20 I paid. Worth it.

As for the other issue OP has with his, my pistol on the octane 45 has been accurate. I even have SBR'd it with a Roni Kit and red dot and shoot tight groups at 100-150 yards with the can on. In pistol mode I only shoot out to about 50 yards, it's plenty accurate. Was before the spring change too.

[Deavis]

Thanks for the spring advice. I'll try that too!

[CanOfWhooppass]

When you clean the can are you using any kind of oil that is on the baffles? This can cause what equates to tiny flashes inside the can.

This may cause weird stuff to happen for a long time after you clean it. If you have, look to see if groups improve as you keep shooting.

[gsyoung54]

Hello,

Im hoping someone here can provide insight and actual solutions to my problems. Here is the deal with a bit of background...
Im a comp shooter and have a range on my property of course so I shoot everyday. I do lots of "Long range" shooting out to 200yards with pistols but generally only to 80yards and my G21 @ G19 both gen 4 with oem barrels and any ammo shoot a LEGITIMATE 6min group at 100yards with just the iron (plastics) sights with me behind the fun stick. I picked up a Lone wolf threaded barrel for both and recently got my octane HD 45 can. With this new barrels both guns function and lockup flawless and maintain the same (otherwise unbelieveable) accuracy the factory tubes do. Problem is when the can is on the gun and there are no other variables it shoots complete erratically, not same consistency just different POI which I expected before hand as a possiblity but this is NOT THE CASE. It shoots like 60moa or worse groups completely randomly, I rotate the can using the notches on the piston to changes the baffle stack orientation and this does change the POI in a non concentric oval 60moa+ pattern.

Im also familiar with barrel harmonics and long range shooting as I also have 900yards in my front yard but this is not the problem here. The suppressor weight must be changing the barrel lockup (unlocking) at inconsistent times as the bullet is out of the barrel but the action is now out of battery yet the bullet has not exited the suppressor creating pressure spikes in different directions and duration at certain points in the stack. Same thing on the G19, just significantly quieter.

DRY, WET, torque settings appropriate, greased orings, I know guns and do my on smithing and ex professional race car mechanic so Im mechanically inclined and undestand physics but cant figure out how to fix this problem.

To add more information to this, with the fixed non piston adapter on my 300bo shooting 208amax out a custom 7.5in with just a reddot im shooting 2min groups at 200yards with or wo the can.

At this point both systems are only good for a nightstand gun for hearing protection because they are absolutely useless outside a cqc environment.

HELP?!

I don't have those problems with the Octane on my Sig 220, SA XDM .45 and .40, SA 1911... I have a Glock 10mm optics ready version and shoot the Octane with 10mm and .40 rounds...

Are the groves in your Octane baffles lined up?

George