Getting the lead out
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Getting the lead out
I have an AWC Raider 5.56 NATO can that has also had .22LR through it. The can is a welded unit so it can't be dissasembled. I have no idea how much lead may be in there from shooting 22LR through a 22 adaptor on the AR or a Marlin 880SQ threaded for ½-28TPI.
I didn't know about the leading issue when I did that.
Normally I would soak the can in very hot soapy water to get out carbon fouling. But lead doesn't dissolve in that. I also can't really get any kind of brush in there.
Short of sending my can back to AWC for service, what can I do?
I didn't know about the leading issue when I did that.
Normally I would soak the can in very hot soapy water to get out carbon fouling. But lead doesn't dissolve in that. I also can't really get any kind of brush in there.
Short of sending my can back to AWC for service, what can I do?
- Bendersquint
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Re: Getting the lead out
Unfortunately there isn't anything that you can do.dsteuber wrote:I have an AWC Raider 5.56 NATO can that has also had .22LR through it. The can is a welded unit so it can't be dissasembled. I have no idea how much lead may be in there from shooting 22LR through a 22 adaptor on the AR or a Marlin 880SQ threaded for ½-28TPI.
I didn't know about the leading issue when I did that.
Normally I would soak the can in very hot soapy water to get out carbon fouling. But lead doesn't dissolve in that. I also can't really get any kind of brush in there.
Short of sending my can back to AWC for service, what can I do?
Time to send it back to AWC and have them gut it and while they are at it upgrade to latest and greatest baffle stack.
Re: Getting the lead out
What sort of procedures are involved with that? Do I have to worry about another tax stamp? Or can my SOT deal with AWC for that job?Unfortunately there isn't anything that you can do.
Time to send it back to AWC and have them gut it and while they are at it upgrade to latest and greatest baffle stack.
- AlabamaPaul
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Re: Getting the lead out
No new tax stamp to worry about, and you deal directly with AWC, as this will be considered a repair...
Re: Getting the lead out
Don't fully agree with this. Is your Raider stainless/Ti/Inconel? If it has no chromoly or aluminum components you can use The Dip on it, which will gradually remove a substantial amount of the lead deposits. Some have had issues with it damaging the finish on a can, but most have not. The Dip is toxic and you should read up on it extensively before use, but if my only other option was paying AWC a few hundred bucks to clean a can that's barely worth that much, I would be using the dip on it.Bendersquint wrote:Unfortunately there isn't anything that you can do.dsteuber wrote:I have an AWC Raider 5.56 NATO can that has also had .22LR through it. The can is a welded unit so it can't be dissasembled. I have no idea how much lead may be in there from shooting 22LR through a 22 adaptor on the AR or a Marlin 880SQ threaded for ½-28TPI.
I didn't know about the leading issue when I did that.
Normally I would soak the can in very hot soapy water to get out carbon fouling. But lead doesn't dissolve in that. I also can't really get any kind of brush in there.
Short of sending my can back to AWC for service, what can I do?
[b]Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?[/b]
- Bendersquint
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Re: Getting the lead out
Dip can only be used on STAINLESS STEEL.Conqueror wrote:Don't fully agree with this. Is your Raider stainless/Ti/Inconel? If it has no chromoly or aluminum components you can use The Dip on it, which will gradually remove a substantial amount of the lead deposits. Some have had issues with it damaging the finish on a can, but most have not. The Dip is toxic and you should read up on it extensively before use, but if my only other option was paying AWC a few hundred bucks to clean a can that's barely worth that much, I would be using the dip on it.Bendersquint wrote:Unfortunately there isn't anything that you can do.dsteuber wrote:I have an AWC Raider 5.56 NATO can that has also had .22LR through it. The can is a welded unit so it can't be dissasembled. I have no idea how much lead may be in there from shooting 22LR through a 22 adaptor on the AR or a Marlin 880SQ threaded for ½-28TPI.
I didn't know about the leading issue when I did that.
Normally I would soak the can in very hot soapy water to get out carbon fouling. But lead doesn't dissolve in that. I also can't really get any kind of brush in there.
Short of sending my can back to AWC for service, what can I do?
It will damage Titanium and aluminum.
It is also very risky due to the toxicity to use the DIP on a sealed can.
- eastern_hunter
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Re: Getting the lead out
Be VERY careful with used dip ... contains ionic lead that is very easily taken into the body! You can precipitate the lead as insoluble lead chloride from used dip by adding table salt (NaCl) to it. Just us enough ... and then filter it out. The insoluble lead chloride is much safer to handle!
Re: Getting the lead out
I have used the dip on anodized aluminum for years, just don't want any uncoated aluminum in the dip.
- Bendersquint
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Re: Getting the lead out
We have tested it on anodized and bare aluminum and it damaged both.fastfire wrote:I have used the dip on anodized aluminum for years, just don't want any uncoated aluminum in the dip.
You are very lucky.
Re: Getting the lead out
The can was advertised as being 100% 316 stainless steel. I have no way to test that.
This dip stuff interests me. I know that water soluble lead compounds are very toxic. Would those blue gloves be sufficient for handling? Or should I use more heavy duty chemical gloves?
I have an outside so I can use a propane torch for heating a solution and limiting myself to fumes, should heating be necessary.
I'm currently saving up for a proper 22LR can to get on Form-4, so I would prefer to clean rather than send off for repair. The can still does a noticeable job in muzzle blast reduction. But it does feel like it has gained weight.
Anyway, I've started doing research, including asking a friend who is an organic chemist (although did work in water purity and stuff).
I've also looked up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peracetic_acid
This dip stuff interests me. I know that water soluble lead compounds are very toxic. Would those blue gloves be sufficient for handling? Or should I use more heavy duty chemical gloves?
I have an outside so I can use a propane torch for heating a solution and limiting myself to fumes, should heating be necessary.
I'm currently saving up for a proper 22LR can to get on Form-4, so I would prefer to clean rather than send off for repair. The can still does a noticeable job in muzzle blast reduction. But it does feel like it has gained weight.
Anyway, I've started doing research, including asking a friend who is an organic chemist (although did work in water purity and stuff).
I've also looked up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peracetic_acid
Re: Getting the lead out
Bendersquint wrote:We have tested it on anodized and bare aluminum and it damaged both.fastfire wrote:I have used the dip on anodized aluminum for years, just don't want any uncoated aluminum in the dip.
You are very lucky.
The anodizing has gotten a lighter color but no other issues.
Re: Getting the lead out
Use long cuff nitrile gloves at minimum. No heating necessary for the dip solution... actually i'm not sure what effect temperature has on the chemical reaction.dsteuber wrote:This dip stuff interests me. I know that water soluble lead compounds are very toxic. Would those blue gloves be sufficient for handling? Or should I use more heavy duty chemical gloves?
I have an outside so I can use a propane torch for heating a solution and limiting myself to fumes, should heating be necessary.
Re: Getting the lead out
OK.
Is it possible to simply order the stuff online? I've never ordered HAZMATs myself.
Is it possible to simply order the stuff online? I've never ordered HAZMATs myself.
Re: Getting the lead out
I would think it would be much easier to go to Walmart. Vinegar and Hydrogen Peroxide aren't exactly controlled items. Its HazMat after use.dsteuber wrote:OK.
Is it possible to simply order the stuff online? I've never ordered HAZMATs myself.
Re: Getting the lead out
viewtopic.php?t=47423dsteuber wrote:OK.
Is it possible to simply order the stuff online? I've never ordered HAZMATs myself.
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Re: Getting the lead out
Thanks, propeini & doubloon.
So that's all this dip is. H2O2 + Acetic Acid. Awesome. I can get 5% of both.
I guess the real trick is getting the solution into the interior areas that normally trap gasses as they are probably where the most buildup will be. So soak, salt (NaCL), and run 40 rounds or so of 5.56 through the can should do the job?
So that's all this dip is. H2O2 + Acetic Acid. Awesome. I can get 5% of both.
I guess the real trick is getting the solution into the interior areas that normally trap gasses as they are probably where the most buildup will be. So soak, salt (NaCL), and run 40 rounds or so of 5.56 through the can should do the job?
Re: Getting the lead out
I've never used the dip myself so I can't offer much help on how to use it other than soak things for a while and try not to get any on you. Disposal is also a concern.
I run clean ammo in my sealed cans so I'm not worried about buildup in those and I tumble my 22lr baffles in steel pins.
I run clean ammo in my sealed cans so I'm not worried about buildup in those and I tumble my 22lr baffles in steel pins.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDtd2jNIwAU MUSAFAR!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI This is Water DavidW
Complete Form 1s http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895
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- Bendersquint
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Re: Getting the lead out
Just remember after using the dip if you can has ANY blowback then you are getting a nice face full of toxic chemicals.dsteuber wrote:Thanks, propeini & doubloon.
So that's all this dip is. H2O2 + Acetic Acid. Awesome. I can get 5% of both.
I guess the real trick is getting the solution into the interior areas that normally trap gasses as they are probably where the most buildup will be. So soak, salt (NaCL), and run 40 rounds or so of 5.56 through the can should do the job?
This is why its not advised to dip a sealed can, you WON'T get it all out.
Re: Getting the lead out
Thanks for the warning. I have an AR upper that has a custom gas block that will allow me to shut off the gas flow, requiring me to pull the charging handle to cycle the next round. Do you think that will help? I also have a Remington 700VS that was threaded to accept the can.Just remember after using the dip if you can has ANY blowback then you are getting a nice face full of toxic chemicals.
This is why its not advised to dip a sealed can, you WON'T get it all out.
I'll dilute as much as possible and do the NaCl thing to the solution.
I expect I won't get all the lead out either. It doesn't have to be 100% like new. I'm sure there is probably some erosion of the can from use anyway. I don't even know how many rounds the circa 2000 AWC Raider 5.56 was expected to handle (barring making the can glow from excessive rate of fire).
It's a bit cold here, so I probably won't do it until I am ready to hit the range. At least not the shooting part.
Since we are on the topic of sealed cans, should I worry about a fountain being created when the can is dipped? I've seen some interesting pictures posted. I'm not sure how violent the reaction will be.
Re: Getting the lead out
The reaction is very mild and not violent at all, you'll get some bubbling similar to soda that it. Let it sit overnight and replace with fresh solution if you still have lead residue in the can.dsteuber wrote: Since we are on the topic of sealed cans, should I worry about a fountain being created when the can is dipped? I've seen some interesting pictures posted. I'm not sure how violent the reaction will be.
If you want to precipitate out the lead use Epsom salts instead of salt, it gets more of the lead out of solution.
Don't sweat the lead toxicity. Yes lead is toxic and it accumulates in the body. If you wear gloves when working with the spent solution and avoid ingesting it you will have no problems.
As shooters we all get some lead exposure from the primers used and lead vapor that results from shooting non jacketed bullets. Shooting at an indoor range will expose you to more lead than using the dip.
I'm an organic chemist and don't hesitate to use the dip as needed.
Re: Getting the lead out
Bendersquint wrote:Just remember after using the dip if you can has ANY blowback then you are getting a nice face full of toxic chemicals.dsteuber wrote:Thanks, propeini & doubloon.
So that's all this dip is. H2O2 + Acetic Acid. Awesome. I can get 5% of both.
I guess the real trick is getting the solution into the interior areas that normally trap gasses as they are probably where the most buildup will be. So soak, salt (NaCL), and run 40 rounds or so of 5.56 through the can should do the job?
This is why its not advised to dip a sealed can, you WON'T get it all out.
After the dip I rinse with water then I blow out my sealed can with the compressor,120 psi gets it dry.
Re: Getting the lead out
I don't know why I didn't think of this. I have an air compressor. Although the air nozzle is only rated for 90PSI.After the dip I rinse with water then I blow out my sealed can with the compressor,120 psi gets it dry.
A mild reaction only... So much for making a dramatic YouTube video.
Re: Getting the lead out
Think Alka-Seltzer. That's the extent of what the chemical reaction looks like.
Re: Getting the lead out
OK. Cool. So I just need to work out the stoichiometry of the reaction. Well, I guess need is a strong word. It would be nice to know just how much lead I am actually removing.
I am concerned about wax and carbon residue interfering with the reaction.
I am concerned about wax and carbon residue interfering with the reaction.