New SilencerCo Octane vid

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T-Rex
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New SilencerCo Octane vid

Post by T-Rex » Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:59 pm

They get an additional 4db reduction, firing 9mm from Octane 45, by putting 9mm end cap on.

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Re: New SilencerCo Octane vid

Post by Dieseljay » Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:08 pm

T-Rex wrote:They get an additional 4db reduction, firing 9mm from Octane 45, by putting 9mm end cap on.

here
As commented on by other forums. Can the user do that? I get that silerncershop can get away with that but can a non manufacturer do that? For the longest time the ATF said that was a silencer part. Magically did they change their mind in 2015?

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Re: New SilencerCo Octane vid

Post by jdasilva » Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:47 pm

Anyone that has both octanes can do it.

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Re: New SilencerCo Octane vid

Post by Bendersquint » Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:18 am

jdasilva wrote:Anyone that has both octanes can do it.
Not legally they can't, adding the smaller bore endcap would constitute a change in caliber as the original 45 bullet that it is registered for can not pass.

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Re: New SilencerCo Octane vid

Post by Bendersquint » Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:20 am

Dieseljay wrote:
T-Rex wrote:They get an additional 4db reduction, firing 9mm from Octane 45, by putting 9mm end cap on.

here
As commented on by other forums. Can the user do that? I get that silerncershop can get away with that but can a non manufacturer do that? For the longest time the ATF said that was a silencer part. Magically did they change their mind in 2015?
No minds have been changed, the endcaps are still silencer parts and still can't change calibers.

SilencerShop is not a manufacturer. no idea how they did it legally.

I can't legally change the caliber on my own can!

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Re: New SilencerCo Octane vid

Post by RJT » Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:41 am

Silencerco must have gotten a variance (or whatever the proper legal term is), because you can buy a 5.56 end cap for the Saker 7.62 without a stamp.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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Re: New SilencerCo Octane vid

Post by Bendersquint » Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:46 am

RJT wrote:Silencerco must have gotten a variance (or whatever the proper legal term is), because you can buy a 5.56 end cap for the Saker 7.62 without a stamp.
No variance needed as they don't classify as silencer parts, they are merely accessories. That said they still had to be approved by ATF but no variances needed.

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Re: New SilencerCo Octane vid

Post by mvasilakis » Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:56 am

Bendersquint wrote:
RJT wrote:Silencerco must have gotten a variance (or whatever the proper legal term is), because you can buy a 5.56 end cap for the Saker 7.62 without a stamp.
No variance needed as they don't classify as silencer parts, they are merely accessories. That said they still had to be approved by ATF but no variances needed.
Forgive my ignorance but wouldn't this fall into the same category as changing the upper on an SBR? ATF says it's ok so long as it can be returned to it's original configuration. (Unless that ruling has changed. I can never keep up.)

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Re: New SilencerCo Octane vid

Post by jdasilva » Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:01 am

I figured if Silencerco promotes using a 556 end cap on their 762 saker, it would be the same for the octanes. But I understand that nothing in the NFA world makes any sense.

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Re: New SilencerCo Octane vid

Post by Bendersquint » Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:16 am

jdasilva wrote:I figured if Silencerco promotes using a 556 end cap on their 762 saker, it would be the same for the octanes. But I understand that nothing in the NFA world makes any sense.
NFA is NOT hard by any means to understand, set emotion aside and things will become clearer. ;)


According to ATF classification the Saker parts are not endcaps.

According to ATF classification the Octane parts ARE endcaps.


I have explained at length how they make their determinations, its in the silencersmithing section somewhere.

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Re: New SilencerCo Octane vid

Post by eastern_hunter » Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:28 am

Probably has something to do with the end cap of the Octanes actually retaining the core parts of the suppressor as opposed to the Saker fittings that do not.

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Re: New SilencerCo Octane vid

Post by Emilio » Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:06 am

eastern_hunter wrote:Probably has something to do with the end cap of the Octanes actually retaining the core parts of the suppressor as opposed to the Saker fittings that do not.
Yes, a dumb law but true. Having both, I don't feel the need and if you really need a few less DB's put some legal water in it.

I'd like to thank Henry for designing this can, if I could scratch the Silencerco of my Octane 45 I would! :mrgreen: At least he was still there at the time but it's still annoying.
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Re: New SilencerCo Octane vid

Post by jdasilva » Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:32 am

It's hard to leave emotion out of it when I just had to resubmit my form 1 because Jason Bowers messed up. At least I got an apology before he asked me to drop another $200 to fix his mistake.

Your point makes sense, I've shot my both my Sakers without the end caps & they performed very well. I don't have the octanes yet but I believe they hold the baffles in the tube. Essential vs non-essential

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Re: New SilencerCo Octane vid

Post by Conqueror » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:38 am

mvasilakis wrote:
Bendersquint wrote:
RJT wrote:Silencerco must have gotten a variance (or whatever the proper legal term is), because you can buy a 5.56 end cap for the Saker 7.62 without a stamp.
No variance needed as they don't classify as silencer parts, they are merely accessories. That said they still had to be approved by ATF but no variances needed.
Forgive my ignorance but wouldn't this fall into the same category as changing the upper on an SBR? ATF says it's ok so long as it can be returned to it's original configuration. (Unless that ruling has changed. I can never keep up.)
No, it is not the same. It probably SHOULD be, but ATF has specifically stated that one cannot legally change the caliber of a silencer.
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Re: New SilencerCo Octane vid

Post by T-Rex » Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:22 am

Bender

I know you are trying to help, but I am seeing inconsistencies in your replys.

You say this:
Bendersquint wrote:
RJT wrote:Silencerco must have gotten a variance (or whatever the proper legal term is), because you can buy a 5.56 end cap for the Saker 7.62 without a stamp.
No variance needed as they don't classify as silencer parts, they are merely accessories. That said they still had to be approved by ATF but no variances needed.
And this:
Bendersquint wrote:
jdasilva wrote:Anyone that has both octanes can do it.
Not legally they can't, adding the smaller bore endcap would constitute a change in caliber as the original 45 bullet that it is registered for can not pass.

If you can't change caliber, which I fully agree, why wouldn't they need a variance to change Saker end caps? Regardless of the Saker end caps being silencer parts or not, am I not still changing calibers? What does it matter the classification the ATF attaches to them, the point is moot since its trumped by not allowing a caliber change?

Not trying to be fresh, just clarifying things.
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Re: New SilencerCo Octane vid

Post by mvasilakis » Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:11 pm

T-Rex wrote:Bender

I know you are trying to help, but I am seeing inconsistencies in your replys.

You say this:
Bendersquint wrote:
RJT wrote:Silencerco must have gotten a variance (or whatever the proper legal term is), because you can buy a 5.56 end cap for the Saker 7.62 without a stamp.
No variance needed as they don't classify as silencer parts, they are merely accessories. That said they still had to be approved by ATF but no variances needed.
And this:
Bendersquint wrote:
jdasilva wrote:Anyone that has both octanes can do it.
Not legally they can't, adding the smaller bore endcap would constitute a change in caliber as the original 45 bullet that it is registered for can not pass.

If you can't change caliber, which I fully agree, why wouldn't they need a variance to change Saker end caps? Regardless of the Saker end caps being silencer parts or not, am I not still changing calibers? What does it matter the classification the ATF attaches to them, the point is moot since its trumped by not allowing a caliber change?

Not trying to be fresh, just clarifying things.
In high school I learned logical thinking as it pertains to computer programming. I am not a programmer but I do dabble from time to time. There is logical progression of commands a program follows. From what I've learned this type of thinking (logical) can get you into legal trouble quickly.

It is not logical that you can remove a complete upper from an SBR and change it to another caliber but cannot do the same for silencers.

It is not logical that the ATF once accepted multi as an acceptable caliber on Form 1's but no longer does so. Not the lease of which is because there are now people out there with stamps that say multi.

It is not logical that a sig brace was ever not considered a stock. It's true intent was always obvious. ATF tried to weasel out of that blunder by invoking intent. They claim that even possessing the parts to assemble an NFA item constitutes intent. So technically if you own the right flashlight a couple washers and some tools you are guilty of intent to produce a suppressor.

It's not logical that a 90º angle foregrip makes a pistol an AOW but an 89º front grip is ok.

I could go on and on. Heck I could start a thread on all the nonsense rulings I've read over the past few months that contradict other rulings in the same time period. ATF NFA rulings are a joke. Just like the vote for the Hughes amendment. I don't know if it is by design or inept leadership or a combination of both. All I know is that for someone just getting into NFA items it's overwhelming because you can never really be sure of how to remain law abiding. (Then again it probably is by design just like the tax code. You are always guilty no matter how hard you try. After all this is a tax.)

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Re: New SilencerCo Octane vid

Post by Bendersquint » Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:36 pm

T-Rex wrote:Not trying to be fresh, just clarifying things.
PM sent.

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Re: New SilencerCo Octane vid

Post by Conqueror » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:29 pm

T-Rex wrote:Bender

I know you are trying to help, but I am seeing inconsistencies in your replys.
I see no inconsistency in his replies, what I see is a nuanced understanding of ATF regulations.

It's not that hard to understand.

1. On a Saker, the REAL front endcap of the silencer is 360-degree welded on. It sits under the interchangeable front cap and happens to have an enormous exit aperture of like 0.50". But that is the real encap of the silencer. It is unfortunate that SiCo named the threaded front component an "endcap," it might better be termed something else to avoid the semantic confusion. Nonetheless, because the threaded front cap has no role in retaining the core, it is not a silencer part. Changing it out does not alter the caliber of the silencer, as the baffles and REAL front endcap do not change in ATF's eyes. Therefore, no variance is necessary.

2. An Octane is basically the opposite. The front endcap is the REAL endcap of the Octane, it holds the baffles in. The video raises two questions of legality: one, of caliber change, since an ACTUAL part of the silencer is of a different caliber, and two, of having spare silencer parts. The way I see it, it would be perfectly legal for SiCo to sell an Octane 45 that comes with the 9mm endcap installed, and the end result is just a bigger, heavier Octane 9. But you can't sell an Octane that comes with both endcaps, as it would constitute the user possessing spare silencer components, plus could be interpreted as changing the caliber.
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Re: New SilencerCo Octane vid

Post by zb39 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:33 pm

The Octane endcap hold baffles in. You take the endcap off to take it apart and clean it. Because it holds the guts in the tube, it is a silencer part. The saker does not work that way. The end cap holds nothing. So change it all you want. Hope this helps. We were typing at the same time, LOL

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Re: New SilencerCo Octane vid

Post by jdasilva » Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:05 am


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Re: New SilencerCo Octane vid

Post by whiterussian1974 » Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:04 am

jdasilva wrote:octane 9 endcaps for sale
http://www.silencershop.com/silencerco- ... d-cap.html
Sounds like I hear a mic dropping...
And the Saker endcaps can only be considered accessaries if they in no way contribute to containing any gas. Otherwise they are silencers just as the Micky Finn ends were.
(Google his patents if you aren't familiar.)

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Re: New SilencerCo Octane vid

Post by jdasilva » Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:50 pm

I shot the saker w/out end cap, very quiet

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Re: New SilencerCo Octane vid

Post by rimshaker » Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:38 am

jdasilva wrote:octane 9 endcaps for sale
http://www.silencershop.com/silencerco- ... d-cap.html
Not that I'm complaining... but someone please clarify how this magically became legal to sell separately all of a sudden?!

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Re: New SilencerCo Octane vid

Post by T-Rex » Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:05 am

rimshaker wrote:
jdasilva wrote:octane 9 endcaps for sale
http://www.silencershop.com/silencerco- ... d-cap.html
Not that I'm complaining... but someone please clarify how this magically became legal to sell separately all of a sudden?!
By law, it shouldn't be.
I called SilencerShop and inquired about these specific items. They admitted to having no prior ATF approval.

I'd wait a bit to see if the repercussion hammer comes down. Not worth federal prosecution for a couple dB, not to me at least.
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Re: New SilencerCo Octane vid

Post by whiterussian1974 » Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:32 am

If one sent their total unit in to swap endcaps, that might work.
But just purchasing a spare, non-serialized suppressor part...?
Not worth losing ALL access to Firearms for up to 5yrs after completing a Federal Sentence.
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