John Titsworth wrote:JasonM wrote:John Titsworth wrote:90% of consumers will never know they are getting sold on sound reduction numbers that are bogus. On the low end (22 suppressors and quality 9mm suppressors) this won't usually be a huge issue, but on stuff that is borderline, these digital meters mentioned are producing numbers that could potentially make unsafe impulse noise seem safe. Not a good standard to set for the industry and the consumer.
First, hi John, nice to see you on here.
second, I don't think most people care or understand enough about sound to need to know the truth. It's unfortunate.
If someone is enamored with a manufacturer, they believe all the hype.
Fortunately, this doesn't apply to those that make overly-outrageous claims. Like Spikes and Jesse James.
But a few dB here and there are never called out. 99.999999999% of consumers have never seen a real sound meter, never mind own one and so if their can is giving them 135dB and the manuf claimed 132dB, they'll never know.
And I agree about safety, but it goes beyond that because people will buy a "137dB" 556 can and think they're safe...
but then it all comes down to the fact that most people don't actually shoot. and even a 150dB can looks good in arfcom posts.
Thanks Jason. I don't get on this or any other forum very often anymore. I totally know what you are saying about posts on forums like arfcom. Its usually just a bunch of "buy this cause its awesome and I have one!" Gets old to those of us that have been in the game for a while. Oh well...
There are no real tests being done anymore, except "digital" tests (AKA MARKETING TESTS) and those obviously are not adequate and are not believable. There was a recent post by silencer shop on arfcom showing the SiCo Omega at 141dB on a 308 and they redid the test to try to conform to the new standards that the ASA is pushing (at the request of SiCo). They re-did the tests and got closer, but they are all using digital meters that don't meet Mil Std 1474D. People objected, but its just business as usual.
There was an industry meeting at Shot this year. I did not attend, but spoke to manufacturers who did. The push was to eliminate FRP from the entire equation and move to 4 shot averages AND measure at the muzzle of the host weapon regardless of the suppressor length. They also want to change the weighting network. I am very on board with that. We should at a minimum change to C weighting or none at all. The numbers are better for hearing loss with suppressors. If the standard should be changed it should include only sound meters that meet current Mil-Spec 1474D, use linear or C weighting and have transducers at the reference location and at both ears. The standard should not be changed to encourage buyers to ignore FRP (any hunter knows this may be the only shot you get and is the most important shot).
C-weighting has been typically used on this side of the pond in work health & safety side and in many of the suppressor comparison tests as well.
With regards to the MIL-STD 1474D and the reference locations.
Many manufacturers seem to use the 1m to the side of the weapon muzzle and suppressor muzzle as the #1 reference point, which it is not.
The 15 cm from the shooters ear on a line between the ear and noise source. The standard mentioning either the muzzle or breech.
This is why we we also test at both ears and I would hope all reasonable / competent manufacturers do also.
The 1 m to the side is not defined as such in the standard, but seems to have evolved as a combination of the two secondary reference locations. Do not know who started it originally, I would wager Gemtech?
With regards to testing at the side of the muzzle, looks like there are folks who are pushing for testing at the rifle muzzle, instead of the suppressor muzzle, when conducting extensive suppressor comparisons, on the argument that the meter is not then moved. However reliable measures can be used to align the meter at each suppressors muzzle.
We feel that to be fair to every manufacturer and suppressor type/length, that measurement should be done still at the suppressor muzzle.
The above does not change anything shooters ear wise, which is the key thing, health wise.
Best Regards!
Tuukka Jokinen
Ase Utra sound suppressors