AAC Mini4 Question (vs M4-2000/SDN-6) Question

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Mini4 or M4-2000?

Mini 4
4
31%
M4-2000
9
69%
 
Total votes: 13

thecameraman79
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AAC Mini4 Question (vs M4-2000/SDN-6) Question

Post by thecameraman79 » Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:30 am

I've done a lot of looking around and I can't seem to find many people using them or much information on them. My LGS distributer has an overstock of the Mini4's and is asking $479 for it so I ordered one (almost ordered 2 at that price). From my research and looking at the sound testing on Silencer Shops website it is actually .5 DB quieter then the M4-2000 at the ear on a 16" gun. Neither is hearing safe at the ear though (about 143db) and I have a newly build 10.5" SBR that I will be running it on so I'm sure it'll be even louder. I don't expect it to be hearing safe so I wanted the lightest package possible. Does anyone have both the mini 4 and M4-2000? How do you like them both? If you only have the mini 4 what are your thoughts on it?

I have the SDN-6 so I figured I could run that too but it's not hearing safe either and the difference in weight in size to the M4-2000 isn't as great as it is to the Mini4 so I'm thinking I'm really going to like the Mini4.

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Re: AAC Mini4 Question (vs M4-2000/SDN-6) Question

Post by thecameraman79 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:17 am

So no one has a mini 4 around here? I'm curious as to the 2 votes for m4-200 without a single explanation as to why it's a better option?

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Re: AAC Mini4 Question (vs M4-2000/SDN-6) Question

Post by RJT » Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:31 am

Mini4 is loud. A friend of mine has one on an entry carbine, not fun at all. It's more of a moderator, than a suppressor. As per AAC: Mini4 22dB reduction, M42K 32dB reduction. 10dBs is a huge difference to the shooter. M42K is a much better suppressor for the "casual" shooter. No matter how good a deal you get, loud suppressors still suck.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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Re: AAC Mini4 Question (vs M4-2000/SDN-6) Question

Post by mk23 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:38 am

Mini4 is a nice package, but loud indeed....

I have both an M42k and a Mini.

I do have a friend looking for a Mini4 though.

Would you have a link?

Thanks

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Re: AAC Mini4 Question (vs M4-2000/SDN-6) Question

Post by T-Rex » Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:15 pm

Mini4 = $750 5.25" 22dB reduction

M4-2K = $850 6.625" 32-34dB reduction

I'd happily pay $100 for an additional 10-12dB (50% increase) with an addition of only 1.375"
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Re: AAC Mini4 Question (vs M4-2000/SDN-6) Question

Post by Conqueror » Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:24 pm

RJT wrote:Mini4 is loud. A friend of mine has one on an entry carbine, not fun at all. It's more of a moderator, than a suppressor. As per AAC: Mini4 22dB reduction, M42K 32dB reduction. 10dBs is a huge difference to the shooter. M42K is a much better suppressor for the "casual" shooter. No matter how good a deal you get, loud suppressors still suck.
T-Rex wrote:Mini4 = $750 5.25" 22dB reduction

M4-2K = $850 6.625" 32-34dB reduction

I'd happily pay $100 for an additional 10-12dB (50% increase) with an addition of only 1.375"
The above is not really good advice, IMO. If only it was as simple as it is portrayed above.

In reality, Mil Spec 1474D is a fairly arbitrary way to measure sound reduction of silencers. Some thought went into it, but it's not a standard specifically for measuring silencer performance, and although 1m left of the muzzle makes metering setups easier to build and validate, it's not exactly a location that makes a ton of sense for measuring what a silencer does for the shooter or for distant observers.

Then you also have to consider the weapon platform. On a bolt gun the only source of noise is the muzzle, but on an AR-15 there is also noise from the BCG vents, the chamber/ejection port, the buffer and spring system, etc. Most of those noise sources are located directly adjacent to one of the shooter's ears, depending on whether he is left- or right-handed. On most suppressed AR-15s the ejection port noise measures north of 143-144dB, which means there is basically no such thing as a hearing-safe suppressed AR-15 regardless of what silencer you use. Interestingly, it appears that the better the silencer's performance in mil-spec 1m left muzzle testing, the louder it is at the ejection port, which makes sense since the key to good performance at the muzzle is more robust containment of powder gases, thus substantially increasing the blowback through the BCG and ejection port. Many mini 5.56 silencers meter loudly in mil-spec testing but quieter at the shooter's ear. This has been borne out in multiple tests.

The end result can be summarized with several important points:

1) The Mini-4 will sound worse to nearby observers than the M4-2000, so if you need to impress your friends, you should get the M4-2000.
2) The Mini-4 will probably be quieter at your ear than the M4-2000 on most AR-type setups, or at least no worse, and louder at your ear on a bolt gun setup.
3) The Mini-4 is substantially lighter and smaller than the M4-2000.

Based on the needs and usage you described above, the Mini-4 is actually probably the better silencer for you, and at $479 is a screaming deal.
[b]Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?[/b]

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Re: AAC Mini4 Question (vs M4-2000/SDN-6) Question

Post by chrismartin » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:41 pm

A friend has one and it's a nice little silencer for what it is.
He bought it because whenever he take any training classes, he gets tired of lugging around the full sized silencer on the end of his rifle. He wanted something smaller, lighter and easier to swing around.
It removes the harshness of the 5.56 and makes it more comfortable to shoot. He still wears hearing protection, obviously, but it's super tiny and does what it is supposed to do.
For $479, I'd buy one, but I already have a full sized 5.56 silencer.
5.56 is not an impress your friends caliber to silence. I'm leaning more and more towards the small light silencer that just take the bark out.

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Re: AAC Mini4 Question (vs M4-2000/SDN-6) Question

Post by savagetactical » Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:55 pm

I own all three of those suppressors, but haven't shot the M4-2000 as much as the rest or really compared it too my Mini-4. I mainly use the M4-2000 on my SPR build, but haven't really got to shoot it much since I've had issues getting that gun to perform. My opinion of the Mini-4 (and of all shorter rifle cans) is that they are a great second purchase suppressor. Its not going to be as quiet as the M4-2000 or SDN-6, but it offers significant weight and size reduction over normal length cans. Comparing it to my SDN-6 on the same gun it is noticeably louder. I can't tell you if hurts, because I always run light ear pro with my suppressed 556 semi-autos. I've only compared the SDN-6 to M4-2000 once and couldn't tell any difference between on my 18" SPR besides weight.

Here my thoughts on the Mini-4: its a specialty suppressor intended to take most of bite off of a 14.5-16" carbine. I believe on these guns it reaches the sweet spot between length, weight, and sound reduction. I bought my Mini-4 specifically for my house gun, which is a 14.7" carbine. Even without its muzzle brake, shooting it inside the house would be deafening. The Mini-4 significantly lowers the blast and noise. If you are looking for maximum sound reduction on a gun that is intended to be shot outside then the M4-2000 is the can you want. Also, the M4-2000 would be preferred on a 10.5" SBR due to its ability to better tame the noise of those guns.

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Re: AAC Mini4 Question (vs M4-2000/SDN-6) Question

Post by Wicked » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:45 am

Conqueror wrote:The end result can be summarized with several important points:

1) The Mini-4 will sound worse to nearby observers than the M4-2000, so if you need to impress your friends, you should get the M4-2000.
2) The Mini-4 will probably be quieter at your ear than the M4-2000 on most AR-type setups, or at least no worse, and louder at your ear on a bolt gun setup.
3) The Mini-4 is substantially lighter and smaller than the M4-2000.

Based on the needs and usage you described above, the Mini-4 is actually probably the better silencer for you, and at $479 is a screaming deal.
Yup, 'zactly that right there. Sometimes, someone else says it even better than I could.
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Re: AAC Mini4 Question (vs M4-2000/SDN-6) Question

Post by aries14482 » Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:17 am

Honestly man, you won't know if you like it until you can shoot with it, hear it being shot by someone else, and can then likewise compare it to some other cans.

For me, I found as long as it's rated around 140dB or lower, it sounds fine. I like the little "snap" sound a decent rifle can makes when fired, so if I get a boom or roar from it like one can I had for a short time, It's just not worth the weight to me.

I highly recommend thread-on cans if you aren't planning to take off and put on the can often. Compared to a quick attach can of the same sound performance and materials, they are at least a quarter pound lighter. It may not sound like much, but it makes a world of difference to your support arm if you shoot other than prone or benched. I use a dab of Rocksett on the threads of my thread-on rifle can and have used it in 3-gun competition with no loosening issues, nor have I had great difficulty removing it with tools when necessary.

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Re: AAC Mini4 Question (vs M4-2000/SDN-6) Question

Post by thecameraman79 » Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:40 am

Thanks for all the replies! For some reason the mini4 doesn't seem as popular of a can and hard to get info on it (subjective then the testing below). Here are the results from SilencerShop for the Mini4 http://blog.silencershop.com/video/aac-mini-4-review/ and for the M42k http://blog.silencershop.com/video/aac-m42000-review/. Since I being the shooter the "at the shooters ear" is what I'm looking at and they show that it is actually .5 decibels' quieter (i understand that's not detectable) at the ear and neither is hearing safe even on a 16" gun (for the shooter) so I'm really surprised just how many people say the M42k is hearing safe. The only thing I can think of is your running it on a bolt gun?

Obviously the M42k would be a better choice for everyone greater then 3' away since it's 10 decibels more quiet. I have a 300 blackout and when I want to impress my friends I break that out or my integral 10/22 that is more quiet then a staple gun. I am just really surprised how many people run the M42k without hearing protection on an AR I guess.

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Re: AAC Mini4 Question (vs M4-2000/SDN-6) Question

Post by thecameraman79 » Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:52 am

Where did you get those prices from? That isn't MSRP so I'm guessing your using your dealer prices? My dealer had the mini4 for $479 and the M42k for $875 so for a $400 savings I thought it was worth it.

The "added" length of the mini is only 2.8" and the m42K is 5.1" so it's 2.25" longer added to the package not to mention the 4 oz weight savings on the front end of a rifle I would think is significant?
T-Rex wrote:Mini4 = $750 5.25" 22dB reduction

M4-2K = $850 6.625" 32-34dB reduction

I'd happily pay $100 for an additional 10-12dB (50% increase) with an addition of only 1.375"

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Re: AAC Mini4 Question (vs M4-2000/SDN-6) Question

Post by thecameraman79 » Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:56 am

Thanks Conqueror that's exactly my thinking on things!
Conqueror wrote:
RJT wrote:Mini4 is loud. A friend of mine has one on an entry carbine, not fun at all. It's more of a moderator, than a suppressor. As per AAC: Mini4 22dB reduction, M42K 32dB reduction. 10dBs is a huge difference to the shooter. M42K is a much better suppressor for the "casual" shooter. No matter how good a deal you get, loud suppressors still suck.
T-Rex wrote:Mini4 = $750 5.25" 22dB reduction

M4-2K = $850 6.625" 32-34dB reduction

I'd happily pay $100 for an additional 10-12dB (50% increase) with an addition of only 1.375"
The above is not really good advice, IMO. If only it was as simple as it is portrayed above.

In reality, Mil Spec 1474D is a fairly arbitrary way to measure sound reduction of silencers. Some thought went into it, but it's not a standard specifically for measuring silencer performance, and although 1m left of the muzzle makes metering setups easier to build and validate, it's not exactly a location that makes a ton of sense for measuring what a silencer does for the shooter or for distant observers.

Then you also have to consider the weapon platform. On a bolt gun the only source of noise is the muzzle, but on an AR-15 there is also noise from the BCG vents, the chamber/ejection port, the buffer and spring system, etc. Most of those noise sources are located directly adjacent to one of the shooter's ears, depending on whether he is left- or right-handed. On most suppressed AR-15s the ejection port noise measures north of 143-144dB, which means there is basically no such thing as a hearing-safe suppressed AR-15 regardless of what silencer you use. Interestingly, it appears that the better the silencer's performance in mil-spec 1m left muzzle testing, the louder it is at the ejection port, which makes sense since the key to good performance at the muzzle is more robust containment of powder gases, thus substantially increasing the blowback through the BCG and ejection port. Many mini 5.56 silencers meter loudly in mil-spec testing but quieter at the shooter's ear. This has been borne out in multiple tests.

The end result can be summarized with several important points:

1) The Mini-4 will sound worse to nearby observers than the M4-2000, so if you need to impress your friends, you should get the M4-2000.
2) The Mini-4 will probably be quieter at your ear than the M4-2000 on most AR-type setups, or at least no worse, and louder at your ear on a bolt gun setup.
3) The Mini-4 is substantially lighter and smaller than the M4-2000.

Based on the needs and usage you described above, the Mini-4 is actually probably the better silencer for you, and at $479 is a screaming deal.

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Re: AAC Mini4 Question (vs M4-2000/SDN-6) Question

Post by T-Rex » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:43 am

thecameraman79 wrote:Where did you get those prices from? That isn't MSRP so I'm guessing your using your dealer prices? My dealer had the mini4 for $479 and the M42k for $875 so for a $400 savings I thought it was worth it.

The "added" length of the mini is only 2.8" and the m42K is 5.1" so it's 2.25" longer added to the package not to mention the 4 oz weight savings on the front end of a rifle I would think is significant?
T-Rex wrote:Mini4 = $750 5.25" 22dB reduction

M4-2K = $850 6.625" 32-34dB reduction

I'd happily pay $100 for an additional 10-12dB (50% increase) with an addition of only 1.375"
I used Silencershop pricing, simply because your dealers sale doesnt relate to me.
I don't understand AAC claim of the added length, because they both use the same mount (51T)
If you look at the OAL minus the 51T mount, the extended dimension is actually longer. There's like 1.3" missing somewhere. Not sure of the internal design to figure their measurements.

Like what some others have said, If you're looking to tame the bark then the Mini is for you. If you want the maximum available suppression for a 5.56 NATO round, spend a couple more dollars on the M4-2k. Regardless of weight and length, training and muscle memory will make this a moot point.

You'll find out, soon enough, if the Mini does what you want :)
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Re: AAC Mini4 Question (vs M4-2000/SDN-6) Question

Post by thecameraman79 » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:57 am

That's fine although it does relate to me and it is nearly half the cost so not to take into consideration for me wouldn't make much sense? lol :wink:

I agree there is a discrepancy with there "added length" but using the math

M42K = 6.625" (overall) - 5.1" (added length) = 1.525" (for the mount)
Mini4 = 5.25" (overall) - 1.525" (for the mount) = 3.725 (added length not there claimed 2.8" but still 1.375" shorter then the M42K)

Did you watch the silencershop testing? Maximum available suppression in relation to whom? To the shooter (my concern) the Mini4 suppresses better then the M42K (although .5 isn't noticeable and neither are hearing safe). To others around (not my concern really) then the M42K is the clear winner (no denying). I'm not trying to suggest the M42K isn't the best for total suppression for the people around you but for the shooter it doesn't seem to be and Conqueror seemed to confirm that too.

I can't wait to get it and test it out and eventually I MAY pick up a m42K but since it won't be any quieter to the shooter (me) then i'm not sure I want to ADD weight and length for worse suppression (however not noticeable or not) to the shooter (me).
T-Rex wrote:
thecameraman79 wrote:Where did you get those prices from? That isn't MSRP so I'm guessing your using your dealer prices? My dealer had the mini4 for $479 and the M42k for $875 so for a $400 savings I thought it was worth it.

The "added" length of the mini is only 2.8" and the m42K is 5.1" so it's 2.25" longer added to the package not to mention the 4 oz weight savings on the front end of a rifle I would think is significant?
T-Rex wrote:Mini4 = $750 5.25" 22dB reduction

M4-2K = $850 6.625" 32-34dB reduction

I'd happily pay $100 for an additional 10-12dB (50% increase) with an addition of only 1.375"
I used Silencershop pricing, simply because your dealers sale doesnt relate to me.
I don't understand AAC claim of the added length, because they both use the same mount (51T)
If you look at the OAL minus the 51T mount, the extended dimension is actually longer. There's like 1.3" missing somewhere. Not sure of the internal design to figure their measurements.

Like what some others have said, If you're looking to tame the bark then the Mini is for you. If you want the maximum available suppression for a 5.56 NATO round, spend a couple more dollars on the M4-2k. Regardless of weight and length, training and muscle memory will make this a moot point.

You'll find out, soon enough, if the Mini does what you want :)

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Re: AAC Mini4 Question (vs M4-2000/SDN-6) Question

Post by thecameraman79 » Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:57 pm

My AAC Mini 4 finally came in to my dealer (form 3) from their distributor this past week so I hit the range with my with my new 10.5" upper and put a few rounds down range. I didn't have a chance to fire the new upper before the suppressor came in so I test fired 5 rounds through it into some cardboard 15 yards and checked for keyholing. I didn't notice any so I took my Geissele alignment rod and checked for clearance and it was perfectly centered so I attached the mini 4 and continued to fire another 5 rounds and found to be no issues.

My father commented on how much concussion it had from the first 5 shots with just the break at the indoor range standing several feet behind me and how non existent it was with the mini 4 on. As I mentioned before it wasn't hearing safe not that any 5.56 suppressors are on an SBR AR but it really knocked down the blast and sound while being lightweight and short allowing me to take quick follow up shots. After 20 rounds of quick double taps it was amazing how hot it was and stayed hot for a good 15 minutes unlike a lot of my other suppressors. I am totally happy with the purchase and that I got it for basically 50% off MSRP was the icing on the cake. Can't wait to get it home and play with it some more.

(As I side note I also got a lightly used Elcan Spectre 1X4 that I finally got to try out on it too and although not light in weight worked perfectly well. Looking forward to taking it out to a little further ranges when my can is out of jail.)

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