Getting checked for legal silencer and stamp

General silencer discussion. If you want to talk about a specific silenced rifle or pistol, it is best to do that in the rifle or pistol section for that brand.

All NFA laws apply.

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ajridgedell
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Getting checked for legal silencer and stamp

Post by ajridgedell » Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:22 am

I've shot in many matches at public ranges, whether its 3gun or Field precision rifle and a lot of guys shoot with silencers and short barreled rifles(3gun). One person made mention that they keep their paperwork in their AR's compartment. Not a word about it from anyone else. So my question is how often has anyone or if anyone has ever been checked to see if they have a stamp for their NFA article at a public range, shooting match, or anywhere? And who can demand to see your stamp?

srs
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Re: Getting checked for legal silencer and stamp

Post by srs » Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:37 am

If you are on private property, the owner or his agent can demand that you produce your papers or leave. If you do not comply you may be arrested for trespassing.

The only governmental agents that have the authority to DEMAND the paperwork is ATF. However, it is generally a good idea to avoid the ride and just show the LEO your papers. "You might beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride", is a true statement.

Bradpierson26
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Re: Getting checked for legal silencer and stamp

Post by Bradpierson26 » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:17 am

srs wrote: The only governmental agents that have the authority to DEMAND the paperwork is ATF. However, it is generally a good idea to avoid the ride and just show the LEO your papers. "You might beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride", is a true statement.
This.
The only one who sees forms are BATFE Agents or the judge.

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Re: Getting checked for legal silencer and stamp

Post by RJT » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:53 am

Bradpierson26 wrote:
srs wrote: The only governmental agents that have the authority to DEMAND the paperwork is ATF. However, it is generally a good idea to avoid the ride and just show the LEO your papers. "You might beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride", is a true statement.
This.
The only one who sees forms are BATFE Agents or the judge.

Any LEO can ask for them, as most state laws list NFA items as prohibited. Your form is your affirmative defense, for legally possessing them.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

ajridgedell
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Re: Getting checked for legal silencer and stamp

Post by ajridgedell » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:24 pm

cool thats kinda what i figured as far as who can ask for paperwork. Has anyone actually had to provide paperwork while at a public range, shooting match or anywhere?? Mostly just curious. I don't know what could even lead to something like that unless maybe somebody made reports that people were showing up to a particular range with NFA articles that someone thought wasnt legal and then a field agent may go check it out or something?? Even if a field agent was just out enjoying the range one day and someone else was there with a silencer or sbr I wouldn't think the field agent would just ask to see their paperwork without a reason to believe there is a problem. One particular field agent I have dealt with seemed like a gun guy himself even commenting he did a form one on a sbr. Just curious if others have ever had to show their paper and for what reasons.

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Fulliautomatix
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Re: Getting checked for legal silencer and stamp

Post by Fulliautomatix » Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:19 pm

Similar discussion here, there are a couple links towards the end that fulfill your request.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=133006
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doubloon
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Re: Getting checked for legal silencer and stamp

Post by doubloon » Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:10 pm

RJT wrote:
Bradpierson26 wrote:
srs wrote: The only governmental agents that have the authority to DEMAND the paperwork is ATF. However, it is generally a good idea to avoid the ride and just show the LEO your papers. "You might beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride", is a true statement.
This.
The only one who sees forms are BATFE Agents or the judge.
Any LEO can ask for them, as most state laws list NFA items as prohibited. Your form is your affirmative defense, for legally possessing them.
I show my papers to almost anyone who asks and definitely anybody with a badge who asks or anyone whose property I'm visiting that asks.

You do, however, have the choice to make your own life as hard as you want it to be.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDtd2jNIwAU MUSAFAR!
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Re: Getting checked for legal silencer and stamp

Post by rockman96 » Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:31 pm

doubloon wrote: You do, however, have the choice to make your own life as hard as you want it to be.
Yep, just ask Leonard. :lol:

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Re: Getting checked for legal silencer and stamp

Post by ajridgedell » Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:35 pm

Fulliautomatix wrote:Similar discussion here, there are a couple links towards the end that fulfill your request.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=133006
I see, sry didn't catch that one when I was looking earlier.

ericlw
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Re: Getting checked for legal silencer and stamp

Post by ericlw » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:14 pm

I have only had one gun range ask to see my paper work. and i never visited that range again. but there was more issues that were way more serious.

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Re: Getting checked for legal silencer and stamp

Post by doubloon » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:34 pm

ajridgedell wrote:
Fulliautomatix wrote:Similar discussion here, there are a couple links towards the end that fulfill your request.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=133006
I see, sry didn't catch that one when I was looking earlier.
There are actually quite a few threads on this topic.

It's really not that hard of a search and the question gets posted a lot for how easy it is to find the answers.

https://www.google.com/search?q=carry+p ... 8&oe=utf-8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDtd2jNIwAU MUSAFAR!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI This is Water DavidW
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Re: Getting checked for legal silencer and stamp

Post by rimshaker » Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:06 am

Only indoor ranges have asked to check my cans and papers. But the outdoor ranges i've been at don't bother with that nonsense.

ajridgedell
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Re: Getting checked for legal silencer and stamp

Post by ajridgedell » Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:34 am

doubloon wrote:
ajridgedell wrote:
Fulliautomatix wrote:Similar discussion here, there are a couple links towards the end that fulfill your request.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=133006
I see, sry didn't catch that one when I was looking earlier.
There are actually quite a few threads on this topic.

It's really not that hard of a search and the question gets posted a lot for how easy it is to find the answers.

https://www.google.com/search?q=carry+p ... 8&oe=utf-8
Oh no caught by the forum police for posting a question that has been answered on the internet before.. my bad :lol: , thanks for the help though

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Fulliautomatix
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Re: Getting checked for legal silencer and stamp

Post by Fulliautomatix » Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:10 am

I didn't mean to police anyone, just sharing a link to a thread I started where I got answers to the same questions you asked pretty much.

Also, some may say you aren't obliged to show any paperwork to local police, but you need to check your local laws to make sure that your device is legal in your state and that exemptions are in place for NFA registered devices. For example, in Georgia it is a felony punishable by 5 years in prison for possession of a SBS, SBR, MG, suppressor or "dangerous weapon"... unless you have it registered in accordance with NFA (or are other "special people")
§ 16-11-122 wrote: ARTICLE 4 - DANGEROUS INSTRUMENTALITIES AND PRACTICES
PART 2 - POSSESSION OF DANGEROUS WEAPONS
§ 16-11-122 - Possession of sawed-off shotgun or rifle, machine gun, silencer, or dangerous weapon prohibited
O.C.G.A. 16-11-122 (2010)
16-11-122. Possession of sawed-off shotgun or rifle, machine gun, silencer, or dangerous weapon prohibited
No person shall have in his possession any sawed-off shotgun, sawed-off rifle, machine gun, dangerous weapon, or silencer except as provided in Code Section 16-11-124.
§ 16-11-123 wrote: ARTICLE 4 - DANGEROUS INSTRUMENTALITIES AND PRACTICES
PART 2 - POSSESSION OF DANGEROUS WEAPONS
§ 16-11-123 - Unlawful possession of firearms or weapons
O.C.G.A. 16-11-123 (2010)
16-11-123. Unlawful possession of firearms or weapons
A person commits the offense of unlawful possession of firearms or weapons when he or she knowingly has in his or her possession any sawed-off shotgun, sawed-off rifle, machine gun, dangerous weapon, or silencer, and, upon conviction thereof, he or she shall be punished by imprisonment for a period of five years.
§ 16-11-124 wrote: ARTICLE 4 - DANGEROUS INSTRUMENTALITIES AND PRACTICES
PART 2 - POSSESSION OF DANGEROUS WEAPONS
§ 16-11-124 - Exemptions from application of part
O.C.G.A. 16-11-124 (2010)
16-11-124. Exemptions from application of part
This part shall not apply to:
(1) A peace officer of any duly authorized police agency of this state or of any political subdivision thereof, or a law enforcement officer of any department or agency of the United States who is regularly employed and paid by the United States, this state, or any such political subdivision, or an employee of the Department of Corrections of this state who is authorized in writing by the commissioner of corrections to transfer or possess such firearms while in the official performance of his duties;

(2) A member of the National Guard or of the armed forces of the United States to wit: the army, navy, marine corps, air force, or coast guard who, while serving therein, possesses such firearm in the line of duty;

(3) Any sawed-off shotgun, sawed-off rifle, machine gun, dangerous weapon, or silencer which has been modified or changed to the extent that it is inoperative. Examples of the requisite modification include weapons with their barrel or barrels filled with lead, hand grenades filled with sand, or other nonexplosive materials;

(4) Possession of a sawed-off shotgun, sawed-off rifle, machine gun, dangerous weapon, or silencer by a person who is authorized to possess the same because he has registered the sawed-off shotgun, sawed-off rifle, machine gun, dangerous weapon, or silencer in accordance with the dictates of the National Firearms Act, 68A Stat. 725 (26 U.S.C. Sections 5841-5862); and

(5) A security officer employed by a federally licensed nuclear power facility or a licensee of such facility, including a contract security officer, who is trained and qualified under a security plan approved by the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission or other federal agency authorized to regulate nuclear facility security; provided, however, that this exemption shall apply only while such security officer is acting in connection with his or her official duties on the premises of such nuclear power facility or on properties outside the facility property pursuant to a written agreement entered into with the local law enforcement agency having jurisdiction over the facility. The exemption under this paragraph does not include the possession of silencers.
Disclaimer: The above OCGA is 2010 code any may have changed since publishing. Verify laws before acting in a manner that may jeopardize your freedom/finances.
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ajridgedell
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Re: Getting checked for legal silencer and stamp

Post by ajridgedell » Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:53 am

Fulliautomatix, My comment was directed to doubloon in a friendly joking tone lol. But I do appreciate the links to similar questions. I'm not the type to not want to show any paperwork to whomever asks. I would have no problems show anything to anyone. The question came to mind after being at different ranges with a bunch of guys with silencers and sbr's and only one person made mention of having their paperwork with them. I'm glad the ranges I visit view their NFA items as no big deal and most of the comments about them are just, "oh thats sweet I got one on order" or whatever. I mostly shoot at home by myself so I really didn't have an idea how other peoples experiences have been with their NFA items, mostly concerning run-ins with the ATF. But what I have gathered is that most inquires as to the legality of such items come from people's ignorance of them.

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Re: Getting checked for legal silencer and stamp

Post by TROOPER » Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:41 pm

I've always found the 'paperwork check' by non-LEOs to be utterly superfluous. A gun with a silencer on it isn't necessarily anymore dangerous on the firing line. Now that said, I can see how they'd ask for papers if it were a machine gun, because in inexperienced hands, a machinegun could be more dangerous... and it would almost certainly create a situation of "rapid fire" that some ranges prohibit.

Other than that, I don't see why they would even care. I mean, do they ask for the CDL of any delivery driver that shows up on the premises?

That said, I have been asked for paperwork half-a-dozen times total, and only by non-LEOs. I have complied fully every time, because it makes my life easier.

Honestly, I think some of the ROs are just excited at the opportunity to possibly catch a criminal and be a hero, and that's really their motivation.

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Re: Getting checked for legal silencer and stamp

Post by ncorry » Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:01 pm

I've been checked by non-LEOs at private ranges (they were employees) and have had a few LEOs ask if I had the paperwork, but when I told them yes, it is registered, they didn't actually check the papers. I keep laminated 50% size (i.e. 3.5"x4.5" or so) cards in the glove box and a color scan of all of them on my phone.

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Re: Getting checked for legal silencer and stamp

Post by doubloon » Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:22 pm

ajridgedell wrote:...
Oh no caught by the forum police for posting a question that has been answered on the internet before.. my bad :lol: , thanks for the help though
I provided relevant input on the problem before I posted a method to find even more information on the same topic.

It is petty of you to displace, as anger toward me, any shame, ineptitude or inadequacy you may feel for not being able to determine the answer for yourself.

:mrgreen:
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Fulliautomatix
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Re: Getting checked for legal silencer and stamp

Post by Fulliautomatix » Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:52 pm

God darnit, Mr. Doubloon, you use your tongue prettier than a twenty dollar whore.
Speak softly, and carry a big stick.

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Re: Getting checked for legal silencer and stamp

Post by YugoRPK » Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:56 pm

srs wrote:If you are on private property, the owner or his agent can demand that you produce your papers or leave. If you do not comply you may be arrested for trespassing.

The only governmental agents that have the authority to DEMAND the paperwork is ATF. However, it is generally a good idea to avoid the ride and just show the LEO your papers. "You might beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride", is a true statement.

You arent going to get arrested for trespassing if you do not show your papers. You are going to get arrested for being asked to leave and not leaving which would be your own fault.
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Re: Getting checked for legal silencer and stamp

Post by ajridgedell » Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:27 pm

Fulliautomatix, My comment was directed to doubloon in a friendly joking tone lol. But I do appreciate the links to similar questions.
^^ from me earlier, again I was just teasing, trying to be humerouse. I have never had much luck searching for topics but from doubloon's link I believe I see how to search stuff through Google with this forum attached.

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Re: Getting checked for legal silencer and stamp

Post by doubloon » Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:19 pm

Fulliautomatix wrote:God darnit, Mr. Doubloon, you use your tongue prettier than a twenty dollar whore.
thanks, just trying to poke back at abigale.

You should get trooper on a roll or read a few of ick's posts.

Even continuity has a way with words when he isn't on tilt.

Historian has a talent that is hard to match and devil doc's sharp wit is sorely missed.

There are many more from older days that could turn a phrase.
ajridgedell wrote:...
^^ from me earlier, again I was just teasing, trying to be humerouse. I have never had much luck searching for topics but from doubloon's link I believe I see how to search stuff through Google with this forum attached.
I know.

The site search sucks. You get much better results using only a few words in google and tacking on "site:silencertalk.com" to the end of your search criteria.
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Re: Getting checked for legal silencer and stamp

Post by Conqueror » Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:27 pm

I've been asked for forms twice: once at a private indoor range in Raleigh, NC, and once at a public outdoor range near Oldsmar, FL. I carry forms with me and didn't mind showing them. Plus it usually leads to me teaching a RO how to get NFA weapons. I've never been asked by a LEO despite driving around with visible NFA items in the backseat sometimes.
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Re: Getting checked for legal silencer and stamp

Post by ranb » Fri Apr 17, 2015 6:22 pm

I was asked at a private range in VA, showed them. Was asked a few years ago in WA by an RO who insisted federal law required that I had to have copies of my ATF form 4 for my homemade silencers (you read that right). I spoke to the club president and had some words for the executive board at their next meeting. The offending RO was rather hostile and refused to enlighten me on which statute I was in violation of. The rest of the board took the position that they would never ask any person shooting at the range to show their tax stamps. The RO quit being a range officer, but stayed in the club. Partial victory for common sense.

I've never been asked at any public range. I'm more than willing to show them off to anyone seeking information on how to own an NFA firearm.

Ranb
SilencerTalk was a place I could disccuss making registered silencers without being told I was a criminal. That is no longer true. http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=132&t=99273

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Re: Getting checked for legal silencer and stamp

Post by doubloon » Sat Apr 18, 2015 12:01 am

Conqueror wrote:... despite driving around with visible NFA items in the backseat sometimes.
I've thought about investing in the invisible kind but then for the full effect you have to use the invisible ammo and that makes invisible holes in the target which is a pain to score.
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