How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

General silencer discussion. If you want to talk about a specific silenced rifle or pistol, it is best to do that in the rifle or pistol section for that brand.

All NFA laws apply.

Moderators: mpallett, bakerjw, renegade

User avatar
Richard/SIA
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:51 am
Location: Nevada

How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by Richard/SIA » Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:57 pm

So how many here REALLY want a 9mm bolt action?

I've just built another caliber conversion, on a brand new current production action, with an integral suppressor of course.
Can also do them as standard title one and threaded or un-threaded muzzle.
Comes standard with a five round mag, seventeen round is readily available.
Only down side is that host actions are still in short supply at suggested retail or less.

It does take more work than just a barrel swap, but it's still a snap compared to working with ancient Enfields.
Uses the original factory magazines so no adapter is needed.

Should be final testing #1 on Tuesday, will put up some pics and maybe even video.
Been looking for a product that is less labor intensive than the Enfields with a broader market.
Hoping this may be it.

Just to sweeten this a bit, it appears that .40 sw and 10mm should also be practical with the sacrifice of a little magazine capacity.
5 rd. becomes 4.
9mm Largo and heavy bullets may be possible too for hand-loaders.
I've had 9mm Largo in the mag.
38000 PSI pressure limit.

Price to be determined, as said short supply is inflating the cost of the host actions.
Might do them on buyer supplied actions.

PM or email if interested.
At these prices I want my gas 100 octane, leaded, and my windshield washed!

glocker17
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:52 pm

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by glocker17 » Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:13 am

I assume the rifle is the Rock Island, I was thinking that some one would make it into a 9mm.

User avatar
Richard/SIA
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:51 am
Location: Nevada

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by Richard/SIA » Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:28 am

Yes it is. :)
But unlike the pistol the bolt head is factory sized only for the .22 TCM so has to be modified.
Also the feed ramp takes a tweak to work with truncated cone bullets reliably.

I also checked with Rock Island, they assured me that they have no plan to introduce a 9mm version from the factory.
All they currently import are apparently pre-sold thanks to back-orders.
So I suppose they have no reason to make a niche item 9mm version.
At these prices I want my gas 100 octane, leaded, and my windshield washed!

User avatar
Emilio
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 2339
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:38 pm

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by Emilio » Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:06 am

I'd like to see a fair priced bolt using common mags I already have ( like my Glock carbine) . Other guns and calibers already fill the "need" suppressed but a 9mm bolt would be a fun toy.

No modded surplus for me and don't trust the Armscore rifles so far.
Member of the LSU, SWR, and RUGGED underground. Shame Silencerco!

jlwilliams
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 2076
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:15 am
Location: NC

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by jlwilliams » Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:47 am

I really want one. Naturally, price is a big consideration. Depending what sort of a deal you can get on the guns and how much it will cost to convert them I think you could have a really good niche item there.

No doubt there is nothing 9mm can do that existing rifle rounds don't do better, but I still want one.

User avatar
Richard/SIA
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:51 am
Location: Nevada

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by Richard/SIA » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:08 pm

Waiting for the Duracoat to cure.
I find that the action works better in 9mm than it did as 22 TCM
The action noise of suppressed SA and FA always annoys me.
I've been being bugged to do "A 9mm De Lisle" for years, this is as close as it's going to get.
I may add a fore-end grip of some sort later, for now I just want to get the suppressed version to the range.

Image
At these prices I want my gas 100 octane, leaded, and my windshield washed!

ncorry
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 182
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:17 pm

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by ncorry » Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:12 pm

http://nfatalk.org/forum/showthread.php?t=12353

Here's one that is simply threaded and appears to work well.

User avatar
Richard/SIA
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:51 am
Location: Nevada

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by Richard/SIA » Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:36 pm

ncorry wrote:http://nfatalk.org/forum/showthread.php?t=12353

Here's one that is simply threaded and appears to work well.
What caliber?
Don't feel like signing up for another forum I will have little time to visit.
At these prices I want my gas 100 octane, leaded, and my windshield washed!

User avatar
Bendersquint
Industry Professional
Posts: 11359
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:19 pm
Location: North Carolina
Contact:

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by Bendersquint » Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:57 pm

Richard/SIA wrote:
ncorry wrote:http://nfatalk.org/forum/showthread.php?t=12353

Here's one that is simply threaded and appears to work well.
What caliber?
Don't feel like signing up for another forum I will have little time to visit.
9mm.

User avatar
Bendersquint
Industry Professional
Posts: 11359
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:19 pm
Location: North Carolina
Contact:

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by Bendersquint » Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:58 pm

Richard/SIA wrote:Waiting for the Duracoat to cure.
I find that the action works better in 9mm than it did as 22 TCM
The action noise of suppressed SA and FA always annoys me.
I've been being bugged to do "A 9mm De Lisle" for years, this is as close as it's going to get.
I may add a fore-end grip of some sort later, for now I just want to get the suppressed version to the range.

Image
Why did you make the stock so short and use such a fat can?

User avatar
Richard/SIA
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:51 am
Location: Nevada

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by Richard/SIA » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:26 pm

Used tube and baffles already on hand for simplicity.
Basically the same as what I do for the AR9 and Thureon units.
Tube is integral to the barrel to keep it one stamp.
This one is mine.
Now I can take some time to modify the fore-end to fit, inletting the stock as a single piece is slow.
Had to do a bit more to the feed ramp but now it's flawless for feed and ejection.
Suspect a lot of buyers will just want the caliber conversion and threaded muzzle.
I make my own barrels from rifled blanks.
At these prices I want my gas 100 octane, leaded, and my windshield washed!

User avatar
Bendersquint
Industry Professional
Posts: 11359
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:19 pm
Location: North Carolina
Contact:

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by Bendersquint » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:46 pm

Richard/SIA wrote:Used tube and baffles already on hand for simplicity.
Basically the same as what I do for the AR9 and Thureon units.
Tube is integral to the barrel to keep it one stamp.
This one is mine.
Now I can take some time to modify the fore-end to fit, inletting the stock as a single piece is slow.
Had to do a bit more to the feed ramp but now it's flawless for feed and ejection.
Suspect a lot of buyers will just want the caliber conversion and threaded muzzle.
I make my own barrels from rifled blanks.
I would be interested in one only because I don't have the time to do it myself.

User avatar
Richard/SIA
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:51 am
Location: Nevada

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by Richard/SIA » Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:59 pm

Joined the other forum to have a look but it won't display, "Insufficient permissions". :?:
EDIT: OK, working now.
The power supply on my computer died and I had to get another so missed some emails.

I found this statement odd, " While there are several designs of semi-autos out there, to shoot suppressed rounds you are basically forced to shoot single shot only as the subsonic rounds just don't have enough energy in them to cycle that gas actions that are out there".

I've never found an issue with 9mm AR's or Thureon's cycling even subsonic rounds.

I like the bolt action for eliminating the action noise.
I find AR actions particularly loud.
At these prices I want my gas 100 octane, leaded, and my windshield washed!

User avatar
TROOPER
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 7440
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:24 pm
Location: Augusta, Georgia

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by TROOPER » Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:02 pm

I have a Beretta CX4 Storm in 9mm, and while I can't comment as to how well it suppresses regarding sound -- since I've never heard any other 9mm rifle suppressed -- I can say that the amount of blowback is noticeably increased. Lotta' grit-in-the-face with WWB, for instance. But I have never had a stoppage on this rifle shooting suppressed or otherwise. I daresay that there would be even more reliability (if it's possible to have more than 100%) on the blowback action due to increased back-pressure.

User avatar
Bendersquint
Industry Professional
Posts: 11359
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:19 pm
Location: North Carolina
Contact:

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by Bendersquint » Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:51 pm

TROOPER wrote:I have a Beretta CX4 Storm in 9mm, and while I can't comment as to how well it suppresses regarding sound -- since I've never heard any other 9mm rifle suppressed -- I can say that the amount of blowback is noticeably increased. Lotta' grit-in-the-face with WWB, for instance. But I have never had a stoppage on this rifle shooting suppressed or otherwise. I daresay that there would be even more reliability (if it's possible to have more than 100%) on the blowback action due to increased back-pressure.
This is a bolt action rifle.

User avatar
Richard/SIA
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:51 am
Location: Nevada

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by Richard/SIA » Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:03 pm

He was responding to my observation from the poster at the other site.
It was claimed that 9mm SA's are unreliable and may as well be single shots.
At these prices I want my gas 100 octane, leaded, and my windshield washed!

DrDremel
Senior Silent Operator
Posts: 133
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:10 pm
Location: Ortonville, MI

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by DrDremel » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:13 pm

I would be interested. I would love one as an SBR.

User avatar
Richard/SIA
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:51 am
Location: Nevada

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by Richard/SIA » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:38 pm

Stocks are about 10" in front of the action so an 11" barrel makes the most sense to me.
Additional length will not add significant velocity in 9mm, .40, or 10mm subsonic loads.
For subsonic we do not really want to add velocity anyway.

I need to get a better scope on the sample so I can shoot for groups.
Need to verify that these are good blanks.
Slightly unusual, 10 lands and grooves.
I can get regular 5 land and groove but they would be more expensive and a longer lead time.
At these prices I want my gas 100 octane, leaded, and my windshield washed!

Tony M.
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 368
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:42 am
Location: FL

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by Tony M. » Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:00 am

I'm interested.

What would the rough price-point be for a standard length threaded muzzle version?

jlwilliams
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 2076
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:15 am
Location: NC

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by jlwilliams » Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:12 am

Tony M. wrote:I'm interested.

What would the rough price-point be for a standard length threaded muzzle version?

And to follow up on Tony's question, will you be offering a conversion service if we supply one of the Rock Island rifles?

samson7x
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 190
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:48 pm

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by samson7x » Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:24 am

I'm interested and would like to know price point as well. Most interested in the standard length threaded version.

User avatar
Richard/SIA
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:51 am
Location: Nevada

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by Richard/SIA » Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:09 pm

I'm going to say $350.00 for a basic 9mm conversion on a customer supplied gun, including return shipping.
Add $25.00 for muzzle threading.
1/2-28 would be too thin for comfort, 5/8-24 would be my choice.

Barrel lengths need to be standardized, so 11" and 16.5".
Could make the shorty 12" if that's the favorite by consensus.
11" will clear the end of the stock with a can attached.
Barrels at .750" OD as original to fit the stock but will be a little lighter with the 9mm bore.

Black Parkerized barrel finish to match the action as standard.
Black Duracoat finish option for all steel parts including the action and bolt $100.00.

Unless I've miscalculated somewhere this should be fair pricing for both sides of the deal.

Currently the best source for TCM's to convert appears to be auction sites.
All the regular distributors carry them but they seem to still be on perpetual back-order.
Around $410.00 is fair, the guys trying to get $500.00+ are scalping.
If you are buying for a conversion getting the gun shipped directly to me will save one shipping charge.
At these prices I want my gas 100 octane, leaded, and my windshield washed!

jlwilliams
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 2076
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:15 am
Location: NC

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by jlwilliams » Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:19 pm

I can't do it this month but I've wanted a 9mm bolt action for far too long. Ill get a 22tcm rifle when I can.

User avatar
mpallett
Elite Industry Professional
Posts: 2876
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:28 am
Location: MA
Contact:

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by mpallett » Fri May 01, 2015 5:46 pm

Richard/SIA wrote: 1/2-28 would be too thin for comfort, 5/8-24 would be my choice.
Why? Pretty much every 9 mm pistol host out there is threaded 1/2x28.
Over weight Telco guy with a FFL/07 for hire :)

User avatar
Richard/SIA
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:51 am
Location: Nevada

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by Richard/SIA » Fri May 01, 2015 6:33 pm

I can do 1/2-28, just prefer a heavier thread.
Would never use 1/2-28 for anything of my own.
Partly a matter of leverage, people drop guns, knock them over from an upright position, etc.
It's a rule of physics that a dropped gun will always land on the muzzle end or expensive adjustable sight. :wink:
So I personally prefer a more robust mount.
If the demand is for 1/2-28 so be it.
At these prices I want my gas 100 octane, leaded, and my windshield washed!

Post Reply