How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

General silencer discussion. If you want to talk about a specific silenced rifle or pistol, it is best to do that in the rifle or pistol section for that brand.

All NFA laws apply.

Moderators: mpallett, mr fixit, bakerjw, renegade

User avatar
Bendersquint
Industry Professional
Posts: 11357
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:19 pm
Location: North Carolina
Contact:

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by Bendersquint »

Its been the industry standard for decades and i have yet to see a barrel or can damaged due to that.

If its threaded properly there is nothing to worry about.
jlwilliams
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 2080
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 7:15 am
Location: NC

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by jlwilliams »

You will probably end up threading them a few different ways. 1/2-28 is probably the most widely used today but there are plenty of 1/2-36 and metric pitches and the classic Mac coarse threads and so on. I'm sure it would be easier to thread a stock of barrels, but a gun like this will probably be mainly used as another host for a can that a customer already owns you will probably get requests for every imaginable pitch.

On the other hand, an 11 inch integral would be the balls.
User avatar
yondering
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 373
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:22 am
Location: NW Wa. state

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by yondering »

I agree that 1/2-28 is less than ideal; the only reason it's used for 9mm is most 9mm semi-auto pistol barrels are too thin for anything larger. 5/8-24 would be fine, although 9/16-24 is common for .35 cal rifles, which is basically what this is...

JMO, the 9mm bolt gun is pretty cool, but I'd rather have the same thing in 38/357 with enough twist for heavy bullets. 9mm is just limited too much in heavy bullet selection. Availability and cost of 357 bolt actions is a problem though.
User avatar
Richard/SIA
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:51 am
Location: Nevada

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by Richard/SIA »

I think it's a lot like .578-28 for .45.
Really thinner than I like but very common from pistols.
My own preference would be more beefy.
But then I rarely use screw-on suppressors as I much prefer integral.

Just started to do Ti. tubes for the Trecenti, so for those willing to bear the increased cost I'm anxious to do more 9mm experiments. :D

I'm on the hunt for more of the reasonably priced TCM actions.

OT, but I also need a MAC-Pro desktop to replace my G5 if anyone is interested in some sort of trade.
Not looking for new, just new enough to get a few years out of it.
Do not need a bunch of whiz-bang features like airport or bluetooth, just have to replace the G5 with a newer system compatible with my files.
At these prices I want my gas 100 octane, leaded, and my windshield washed!
User avatar
Richard/SIA
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:51 am
Location: Nevada

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by Richard/SIA »

yondering wrote:I agree that 1/2-28 is less than ideal; the only reason it's used for 9mm is most 9mm semi-auto pistol barrels are too thin for anything larger. 5/8-24 would be fine, although 9/16-24 is common for .35 cal rifles, which is basically what this is...

JMO, the 9mm bolt gun is pretty cool, but I'd rather have the same thing in 38/357 with enough twist for heavy bullets. 9mm is just limited too much in heavy bullet selection. Availability and cost of 357 bolt actions is a problem though.
Once I have some time to experiment I will see about 9mm Largo and heavy bullets.
So long as the chamber pressure does not become an issue I have already tried standard 9mm Largo in the magazine and it looked like they should work.
Also looking at some heavy 10mm rounds.
Have to find more actions to play with!
At these prices I want my gas 100 octane, leaded, and my windshield washed!
User avatar
yondering
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 373
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:22 am
Location: NW Wa. state

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by yondering »

Is that TCM magazine longer than standard 9mm? If so, that would help a lot. What's the longest OAL it will handle?
User avatar
Richard/SIA
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:51 am
Location: Nevada

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by Richard/SIA »

1.30" OAL 9mm Largo seems to be workable.
The .22 TCM measures at 1.243".
So clearly more room than many standard 9mm mags.

I will look into what's possible with them some more.
Need a source for Largo brass without pulling bullets.
At these prices I want my gas 100 octane, leaded, and my windshield washed!
jlwilliams
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 2080
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 7:15 am
Location: NC

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by jlwilliams »

Would 38 super be easier to source?
User avatar
Richard/SIA
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:51 am
Location: Nevada

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by Richard/SIA »

jlwilliams wrote:Would 38 super be easier to source?
Isn't that a rimmed round?
If so it won't want to feed well.
At these prices I want my gas 100 octane, leaded, and my windshield washed!
jlwilliams
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 2080
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 7:15 am
Location: NC

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by jlwilliams »

Richard/SIA wrote:
jlwilliams wrote:Would 38 super be easier to source?
Isn't that a rimmed round?
If so it won't want to feed well.

It's a "semi rimmed" cartridge. It was designed for the 1911, so it may work.
Deavis
Member
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:39 am

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by Deavis »

Richard/SIA wrote:
yondering wrote:I agree that 1/2-28 is less than ideal; the only reason it's used for 9mm is most 9mm semi-auto pistol barrels are too thin for anything larger. 5/8-24 would be fine, although 9/16-24 is common for .35 cal rifles, which is basically what this is...

JMO, the 9mm bolt gun is pretty cool, but I'd rather have the same thing in 38/357 with enough twist for heavy bullets. 9mm is just limited too much in heavy bullet selection. Availability and cost of 357 bolt actions is a problem though.
Once I have some time to experiment I will see about 9mm Largo and heavy bullets.
So long as the chamber pressure does not become an issue I have already tried standard 9mm Largo in the magazine and it looked like they should work.
Also looking at some heavy 10mm rounds.
Have to find more actions to play with!
I love new ideas, but the 77/357 is more gun for less overall $ in this format.
User avatar
Richard/SIA
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:51 am
Location: Nevada

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by Richard/SIA »

Looked at some Ruger sites, not seeing any PISTOL caliber 77's except .22 LR.
Also not seeing the ability to use seventeen round mags.
The TCM is a niche item, my hope is that it's a popular enough item to be worth my effort.
At these prices I want my gas 100 octane, leaded, and my windshield washed!
Deathray
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:20 pm

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by Deathray »

Richard/SIA wrote:
jlwilliams wrote:Would 38 super be easier to source?
Isn't that a rimmed round?
If so it won't want to feed well.
It is semi rimmed and they feed pretty well, it is very commonly used in USPSA matches. .38 super comp would be a better choice since it is a truly rimless case. However it is not as widely available.
User avatar
Richard/SIA
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:51 am
Location: Nevada

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by Richard/SIA »

Lots of possibilities so long as the max pressure is not exceeded.
Bottom line appears to be that many alternatives make hand loading a must.
Factory box 9mm, .40 sw, and 10mm loads are readily available within the pressure limit.
.38 Super is not normally subsonic and uses pretty light bullets.
It can probably be made to work with hand loads but may not gain anything significant over other options.

It's all down to user preference and willingness to have to hand load.
I will continue to look into the optimum hand loaded round.
I'm wanting the heaviest possible bullet at 1050 FPS.
Hoping that will be around 200 grains.

For now I am concentrating on 147 gr. 9mm as I've done that and it works well.
I have several factory loaded boxes of it on hand for testing.
At these prices I want my gas 100 octane, leaded, and my windshield washed!
User avatar
yondering
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 373
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:22 am
Location: NW Wa. state

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by yondering »

Richard/SIA wrote:Lots of possibilities so long as the max pressure is not exceeded.
Bottom line appears to be that many alternatives make hand loading a must.
Factory box 9mm, .40 sw, and 10mm loads are readily available within the pressure limit.
.38 Super is not normally subsonic and uses pretty light bullets.
It can probably be made to work with hand loads but may not gain anything significant over other options.

It's all down to user preference and willingness to have to hand load.
I will continue to look into the optimum hand loaded round.
I'm wanting the heaviest possible bullet at 1050 FPS.
Hoping that will be around 200 grains.

For now I am concentrating on 147 gr. 9mm as I've done that and it works well.
I have several factory loaded boxes of it on hand for testing.
That's where something like the 77/357 has any 9mm bolt gun beat. 250gr+ is easily possible with the larger case and mag length. My favorite subsonic 35 cal bullet is 270gr as a flat point or 255gr HP.

Are 10mm mags available for this TCM rifle? Where would you get them?
User avatar
Richard/SIA
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:51 am
Location: Nevada

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by Richard/SIA »

Standard mag will take .40 SW and 10mm but loses one round of capacity.
17 rd. mag would probably fall to only 14. :cry:

I'm looking for bullets to work with the 9mm Largo brass from Starline.
My local loading expert is not available until Thursday.

Meanwhile I'm trying to buy more TCM actions.
At these prices I want my gas 100 octane, leaded, and my windshield washed!
Deathray
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:20 pm

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by Deathray »

9 Largo should work with just about any regular old 9mm bullet.

Here is one dude who did some load development up to a 125gr bullet. I don't see why you couldn't just load it to 9mm Para minimum load specs with a 147 or even 158gr bullet and work your way up.
http://www.9mmlargo.com/cartridge/loads.htm
User avatar
jdj
Elite Member
Posts: 653
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:24 pm
Location: Hanover, NH

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by jdj »

I would like to see this in a 8-9" barrel, threaded 1/2-28 for most 9mm muzzle cans, and a permanently attached shroud a la the tacsol SBX barrel to accomodate a 1.375 9mm muzzle can and bring the OAL to 16". I imagine this would have a larger market than an integral as it could utilize the customers existing 9mm can. I would definitely be in for $800-$1400.

The suppression of muzzle cans is so good (e.g. aac Tirant) these days that I don't see that an integral would gain all that much.
"I regard virginity as a correctible perversity of no interest" - Lazarus Long (Time Enough for Love), Robert A. Heinlein
User avatar
Richard/SIA
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:51 am
Location: Nevada

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by Richard/SIA »

I'm hoping for 200+ gr. for the Largo cases.

A permanent "Shroud" is no issue so long as I know the OD of the intended can.
Should be able to do that at the lower end of jdj's scale.
At these prices I want my gas 100 octane, leaded, and my windshield washed!
Deathray
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:20 pm

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by Deathray »

A 200gr plus 9mm would be interesting to say the least.
User avatar
Richard/SIA
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:51 am
Location: Nevada

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by Richard/SIA »

Village Tactical just got in a shipment of .22 TCM rifles.
$399.00 and $25.00 shipping.
Davidsons has now put these on "Allocation" so grab them while you can as they will now be even harder to get.

http://www.villagetactical.com/
At these prices I want my gas 100 octane, leaded, and my windshield washed!
User avatar
Richard/SIA
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:51 am
Location: Nevada

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by Richard/SIA »

Did some more looking around.
The issue with 9mm Largo becomes head-space gauges.
No one has them.
Also some concern that a fool might try to shoot 9x23 Win in it.
They would only do that once but would probably blame me for the result as the rounds would probably chamber.

Got my hands on some .38 Super brass and data.
Looks like 180 gr. Speer TMJ, 4.6 Gr. of Unique at 30557 PSI, 1055 FPS/444 ft. pounds of energy at the muzzle.
Head-space gauges and reamers should not be any problem to get.

9mm 147 and 158 gr. are still probably simpler to source.

Plan to buy a couple more actions this week and build them.
At these prices I want my gas 100 octane, leaded, and my windshield washed!
User avatar
Richard/SIA
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:51 am
Location: Nevada

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by Richard/SIA »

I hesitate to even ask for fear of setting off a heated debate, but......
Desired barrel twist rates?
Seems short barrels need to be 1-10", longer barrels may be good with 1-16" or similar.

Really want to keep this simple for inventory purposes so want to avoid having too many twist rates.
Integral suppressor barrel is about 7", SBR or shrouded suppressor host barrel around 11" and non-NFA 16.5".

Is there any agreement for best twist rate for these lengths, 147 gr. to 180 gr.?
At these prices I want my gas 100 octane, leaded, and my windshield washed!
User avatar
yondering
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 373
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:22 am
Location: NW Wa. state

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by yondering »

1:16" should be fine for the bullet weights you plan to shoot. 1:14" would give a little extra margin of safety for long bullets, although 1:16 will usually handle 250+gr bullets in this caliber. I see no reason at all for 1:10", and no reason for a faster twist in the shorter barrels.
User avatar
Richard/SIA
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:51 am
Location: Nevada

Re: How many really want a NEW 9mm bolt action carbine?

Post by Richard/SIA »

In giving it more thought I now realize that the non-NFA 16.5" version will be shooting everything from 90 gr. to 158 gr. factory loads.
The NFA versions would want to be optimized for heavy sub-sonic rounds.
This might change the twist for 16.5" barrels?
At these prices I want my gas 100 octane, leaded, and my windshield washed!
Post Reply