Suppressor for MPX

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Suppressor for MPX

Post by tripntx » Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:05 pm

What suppresser currently marketed or soon to be released would be a good match for 9mm MPX with 8" barrel (possibly 4.5" barrel in future)? It wouldn't hurt if it was a .40cal can since the MPX is supposed to be a quick change can.

I picked up a 8" MPX 9mm P on Thursday, as well as ordered the 3 mag deal and telestock and Form 1 mailed on Friday to SBR it. SPARC 2 has been ordered directly from Vortex, and CMT 3.5# straight trigger from Primary Arms.

I shot it this weekend with AAC Evolution 9 attached (piston from Capitol Armory & SRI fixed barrel spacer) and wasn't impressed with sound due to only having 115 gr and 124 gr on hand, but I do have 147 gr and 165 gr HUSH on order from Freedom. Strapped magneto speed onto EVO-9 for a few rounds: Perfecto 115gr 20 round average 1175 fps and Aguila 124 gr 20 round average 1138 fps.

The EVO-9 diameter is puny compared to how much open space is available inside the MPX handguards, and I do plan to get a 4.5" 9mm or maybe a .40cal barrel when they are released.

If another thread answers currently marketed as well as soon to be released better cans then please point me towards the thread.

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Re: Suppressor for MPX

Post by tripntx » Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:18 pm

I wanted to add, the MPX is fun to shoot. I can see owning more than one, possibly two as SBR's since these can be great home defense firearms for both my wife and I.

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Re: Suppressor for MPX

Post by TROOPER » Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:34 pm

I'm in the exact same situation (minus the dates).

- Evo-9
- Sig MPX-P
- Barrel being cut to 4.5 inches
- SBR filed about a month ago

... and I am also looking for an appropriate can. My 'ideal' can will make better use of the space on the inside of the hand-guard as well as being slightly longer since the forward weight won't be an issue. I'm realizing that my 'dream can' doesn't really exist since the market for what you and I are asking for is incredibly limited. Most folks want a 9mm silencer on a handgun, and small-ish is undoubtedly better.

There's also the issue of potential blow-back. First of all, the internet says (so take it for what its worth) that this gun is over-gassed. I suspect that will be exacerbated by increased back pressure.... which might be offset by a larger blast chamber... which leads to increased FRP -- very unfavorable for most hand-gun silencers.

Really, I only even replied to keep this thread alive as opposed to having anything to contribute. That said, I may be looking out on the smaller shops for this, as well as trolling through some of the other Sig or AR15 forums for suggestions. I would like a bigger can only because I -- like you -- am assuming that this will produce better results. We might both be wrong.

Still, if I find something, I'll share it.

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Re: Suppressor for MPX

Post by TROOPER » Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:47 pm

Liberty 9mm........ 8 x 1.375 (length x width)
Silencerco 9mm... 7.5 x 1.37
AAC 9mm .......... 7.9 x 1.38
Gemtech............. 7 x 1.375

All have the same basic external dimensions and displacement, right? But then there's Thompson Machine who, in addition to a comparable-sized 9mm silencer -- comparable to the above, at least -- ALSO sell one intended for use on a submachine gun, which means three things: it is more concerned with minimizing blowback than the normal 9mm silencer intended for a handgun... it's less concerned with smaller diameter since it doesn't have to worry about obstructing gun-sights as much.... and it is less concerned with length since it doesn't need to necessarily minimize its mass and balance in order to keep a handgun viable. Its likely host will be a two-handed affair with either a buttstock or hip-fired.

Thompson Machine SG-2 ..... 9.25 x 1.625

How does it perform? I don't know. But I assume that it address the blowback since that's a key point of its design, and I also assume that it seeks to improve absolute suppression by sacrificing compactness of length and diameter.

This might be just the thing.

If anyone can chime in on any of this... thought process... results... the SG-2 in particular... anything at all, please do so. I shall also look around to see what there is to see on this matter and post whatever I can on the issue.

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Re: Suppressor for MPX

Post by TROOPER » Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:40 pm

... also "Bowers Vers-9" silencer.

11.25 x 1.75... <--- Bowers, $535 (MSRP) ... baffle-stack
9.25 x 1.62 ... <--- Thompson Machine, $449 (MSRP) ... user-serviceable mono-core

Pros for Bowers seem to be that it is simply a larger can. It also utilizes a baffle stack which is typically better at absolute suppression.
Cons for Bowers is that it costs 13% more than the Thompson.

Pros for the Thompson Machine are that it is purpose built to reduce blow-back and noise from the ejection port. It is user serviceable which should greatly extend its life as well as giving it the opportunity for use on 22 bolt-actions. It is 12% less expensive than the Bowers.
Cons for Thompson Machine are that it may not have the same level of suppression given its smaller size and mono-core.

I don't know what the comparison is for suppression.

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Re: Suppressor for MPX

Post by TROOPER » Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:23 pm

Okie dokie. Here is a picture that illustrates what we're working with:
Image

The red portion measures 1.675 with my digital calipers. It also shows the two points I measured between to get those numbers.

The GREEN line represents an unknown radius. I can measure diameter at that point, but not the radius... and you can see that the radius here has the potential to be an issue... although my gut says that the radius is the same there as at the 'red' points.

Either way, the take-away from this picture is that the Bowers can with it's 1.75 inch diameter will not fit, regardless of what the unknown 'green' radius is.

Let me rephrase that as clearly as possible:

The Sig MPX can not host a Bowers Vers-9 under the hand guard.

Which in a way is fortuitous... because it really simplifies the question of what's better on the MPX, the Bowers Vers-9 or the Thompson Machine GS-2.

... now the last question is what's better, the TM GS-2 or the... ((insert standard 9mm handgun silencer)).

But, if the question is "what's the biggest commercial 9mm that can fit under that handgaurd?" Then currently, the answer appears to be the Thompson Machine.

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Re: Suppressor for MPX

Post by JasonM » Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:28 pm

just a note- not from the internet, but from personal experience, the handful of MPXs that I've had the fortune to shoot did not strike me as overgassed.

And i have used them in the various barrel lengths, with and without cans*, and in semi and full auto.

*the only cans I've used them with have been Sig cans.
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Re: Suppressor for MPX

Post by TROOPER » Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:02 pm

I appreciate that first-hand experience. It also explains an oddity that I've seen in the MPX forums -- that some people are reporting the MPX to be a relatively quiet shooter even without the can. Mind you, they just mean "relatively" as in "compared to other unsuppressed 9mm handguns".

That said, I assume -- and you know what they say about assuming -- that the Sig 9mm cans being used on this platform are roughly the same as the MPX-C "muzzle-brake" in that it might well be nothing more than a relatively unsophisticated mono-core as opposed to a highly advanced, cutting-edge baffle-stack.

That matters because I suspect that such a 'high-volume', low baffle-count mono-core might be more conducive to reducing back-pressure. In which case, the Thompson Machine over-sized mono-core known as the GS-2 might be barking-up-the-right-tree.

Still, I do have an Evo-9 (older design) which I'll be using until/if I decide that a different can would be better. It just seems a shame to not utilize the key attributes of this platform such as the available space under the hand-guard, or the fact that with a 4.5 inch fixed barrel on a rifle, a longer can wouldn't be the detriment that it would be on a handgun.

Unfortunately the key obstacle I'm facing now is that finding objective "third-party" information on the GS-2 has been very, very unfruitful thus far. This might be partly do to weak "Google-Fu" on my behalf, but the more likely culprit is the ultra-narrow niche of that kind of silencer combined with it coming from a relatively smaller company combined with it being about silencers at all... which is itself a narrow niche of the shooting community, which is itself a smaller portion of society as a whole. It's very "Inception"... a 'niche within a niche'.

I'm tempted to contact Thompson Machinery directly to solicit their opinion... but then I just can't imagine them saying, "Well it does work.... but honestly our GS-2 is really no different than any other 9mm can from any other company... you're really just buying the name."

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Re: Suppressor for MPX

Post by JasonM » Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:37 pm

TROOPER wrote:I appreciate that first-hand experience. It also explains an oddity that I've seen in the MPX forums -- that some people are reporting the MPX to be a relatively quiet shooter even without the can. Mind you, they just mean "relatively" as in "compared to other unsuppressed 9mm handguns".

That said, I assume -- and you know what they say about assuming -- that the Sig 9mm cans being used on this platform are roughly the same as the MPX-C "muzzle-brake" in that it might well be nothing more than a relatively unsophisticated mono-core as opposed to a highly advanced, cutting-edge baffle-stack.

That matters because I suspect that such a 'high-volume', low baffle-count mono-core might be more conducive to reducing back-pressure. In which case, the Thompson Machine over-sized mono-core known as the GS-2 might be barking-up-the-right-tree.

Still, I do have an Evo-9 (older design) which I'll be using until/if I decide that a different can would be better. It just seems a shame to not utilize the key attributes of this platform such as the available space under the hand-guard, or the fact that with a 4.5 inch fixed barrel on a rifle, a longer can wouldn't be the detriment that it would be on a handgun.

Unfortunately the key obstacle I'm facing now is that finding objective "third-party" information on the GS-2 has been very, very unfruitful thus far. This might be partly do to weak "Google-Fu" on my behalf, but the more likely culprit is the ultra-narrow niche of that kind of silencer combined with it coming from a relatively smaller company combined with it being about silencers at all... which is itself a narrow niche of the shooting community, which is itself a smaller portion of society as a whole. It's very "Inception"... a 'niche within a niche'.

I'm tempted to contact Thompson Machinery directly to solicit their opinion... but then I just can't imagine them saying, "Well it does work.... but honestly our GS-2 is really no different than any other 9mm can from any other company... you're really just buying the name."
Part of the problem here is that Sig has been gracious enough (over-eager enough?) to have shown us lots and lots of pics of a new system that was very much in development of the past few years. Not to mention the Sig silencers have also been in rapid development over this time. If you were lucky enough to get to the Sig range, you'd often see an almost random mix of parts between guns - varied cans, hadnguards, stocks, etc.

Some impressions can be deceiving- the 8" barrel MPX does seem to be 'quieter' than a 9mm handgun, but i think that's perceived because the longer barrel ensures more/complete power burn and it has less muzzle blast than a typical pistol... to me, the MPX sounds the same unsuppressed as any other subgun.

I have never seen or shot a functioning MPX with the "Muzzle brake silencer", all the functional ones I've used have had some version of their 9mm cans - from the very short (2 baffle?) version to the full-size. The all have some version of modified K baffles and have ranged from "take the edge off" (micro can) to MP5SD (full-size can).

I really don't remember any gas or back pressure issues.

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Re: Suppressor for MPX

Post by JasonM » Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:38 pm

further, more volume and less pressure is almost always a good thing, so If Thompson Machine fits the bill, go for it.
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Re: Suppressor for MPX

Post by TROOPER » Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:55 pm

Thompson Machine SG-2 ordered. Side-note: the can itself doesn't include the threaded adapter, so the silencer and threaded-portion must be ordered together.

That said, the place I ordered it for charged me $496 out-the-door.... Silencer + 1/2 x 28 adapter + tax (not the $200 ATF tax-stamp). I'm told to expect approximately 4-5 months until I take possession. Till then, I'll just be hosting an older AAC Evo-9 with a fixed spacer.

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Re: Suppressor for MPX

Post by Liberty Suppress » Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:22 pm

The Mystic X From Liberty Suppressors will work exceptionally well on these platforms. Take a look at that as well...

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Re: Suppressor for MPX

Post by TROOPER » Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:18 pm

I know zilch about ARs, and while this isn't an AR per-se, it's close enough that both my question and ignorance come to bear. Assuming that the MPX is over-gassed, and that's an "if".... where does the excess gas vent to? Does it come out of the ejection port? Or does it come out of the auto-regulating valve under the handgaurd?

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Re: Suppressor for MPX

Post by hyrulejedi86 » Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:22 pm

I'd like to step-in and request a quick opinion from those of you who have shot the MPX. I really want one but I'm having to wait a bit until funds are available. In the meantime I'm doing my research to determine if it's worth the cost. For me the only comparison I have in a 9mm carbine is a 9mm AR and sadly I have been sorely disappointed with it shot suppressed. The action noise is so bad I can't shoot it without an earplug in my right ear. I was hoping that the system the MPX has would reduce that noise to a more tolerable level maybe even better especially since the bolt doesn't move into a tube that is sitting right by your ear. I'm planning on running either a 6" or 8" barrel using my 124 and 147gr reloads.

Thanks for any input.

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Re: Suppressor for MPX

Post by TROOPER » Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:53 pm

This'll sound dumb, but I haven't shot mine yet.

That said, the problem you're likely running in to is that the over-whelming majority of 9mm carbines seem to be blow-back... which is all well and good for simplicity and reliability, but it's a rather unsatisfactory system for suppression. The only way a silencer works is to slow the exit of hot gas out of the muzzle. Because of that, the pressure inside of the barrel stays high longer than it would if it weren't suppressed, which, in a blow-back, means that high pressure gas is inside of the barrel and chamber when the bolt opens to eject the brass. End result? Ejection of hot-gas, 'grit', unburned powder, and, worst-of-all, noise coming right out of the ejection port.

It's that exact same mechanism which makes a 380 so frustrating. Since most 380s -- not all, but most -- rely only on simple blowback for operation, when a suppressor gets put on, they become disappointingly loud... or at least loud for being suppressed.

My limited understanding is that the majority of 9mm ARs are also blow-back... as is my Beretta CX4... which produces the same problems which you have just described. Because of that, while it's a great firearm in general, it's really sub-ideal as a silencer platform. Even without hearing it, I'm confident that the Sig MPX, when suppressed, is going to be head-and-shoulders better simply because it maintains its lock past the point of high-pressure in the barrel -- even suppressed. This becomes even more true when you consider that the MPX was built ground-up with the intent of being suppressed.

It's those final two points which sold me on the MPX over the CZ Evo. I'm not trashing on the CZ, but from the stance of a suppressor host, CZ missed the point of a pistol which was made to ultimately become an SBR. Especially once you consider that since SBR is in NFA territory, it's really a very small jump to then assume it's going to be suppressed... and that's where blow-back is weak.

If I had to speculate, I'd guess that Sig showed their hand too soon regarding the MPX. They made the industry aware of what was coming too soon before it was available, which allowed CZ to then easily put together a blow-back version in the same niche platform and reach that relatively untapped market first.... and for less money!

GLOCK did that same thing with their handguns chambered in 40 S&W, beating Smith-&-Wesson themselves to the market with a functional host. Funny!

Of course I could be completely wrong about the time-line... and it's possible that CZ had the Evo in-the-works for years and it simply worked out to their benefit.

I dunno... in trying to answer your specific question, I can only speculate. That said, my Google-Fu and 'stalking' of this particular firearm leads me to believe that it is a well-conceived, well-executed idea which won't have any serious, immediate competition for quite a long time... if it ever really does at all.

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Re: Suppressor for MPX

Post by tx_quiet_guy » Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:41 pm

Can you let me know what thread adaptor you purchased for the MPX with SG-2 and where it was purchased? I would like to get the same setup and not sure about where to get the thread adaptor.

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Re: Suppressor for MPX

Post by TROOPER » Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:36 pm

tx_quiet_guy wrote:Can you let me know what thread adaptor you purchased for the MPX with SG-2 and where it was purchased? I would like to get the same setup and not sure about where to get the thread adaptor.
I got it from Thompson Machine themselves.

Also, I've since had my MPX legally SBR'ed, and it is a true pleasure to fire. I've been shooting "Lawman" 147 grain, and with the EVO-9, it's very, very quiet, and very, very low recoil in between shots.

I'm still in waiting mode for the SG-2. Check mailed mid-August, and I figured I wasn't really seriously waiting until mid-December (it was running ~ 4 months back then).

-------- ETA ---------
Just checked the Thompson Machine webpage, and under the SG-2, it lists the various thread-pitch adapters available. I didn't dig around on their webpage to see how to order it, but if all else fails, an email or phone call should get you sorted out.

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Re: Suppressor for MPX

Post by tx_quiet_guy » Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:50 pm

Thank you - much appreciated.

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Re: Suppressor for MPX

Post by OJB4 » Mon Jan 18, 2016 5:07 pm

Are there any MPX's that are already SBR'd available for purchase? I am hoping to avoid having to Form 1 one and have it engraved and then buy a stock to swap out with the pistol brace. Seems that there should be Factory SBR's available....right??

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Re: Suppressor for MPX

Post by RJT » Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:13 pm

I've seen a couple of NFA MPX Cs on gunbroker. I think an 8" barrel was the shortest though.
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Re: Suppressor for MPX

Post by OJB4 » Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:40 pm

RJT wrote:I've seen a couple of NFA MPX Cs on gunbroker. I think an 8" barrel was the shortest though.

Thanks sir....I'll google-fu it and see what I turn up. Much appreciated.
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Re: Suppressor for MPX

Post by rentprop1 » Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:12 pm

found this thread from Google, just wondering if anyone is running the Liberty Mystic X on an MPX

I'm new to suppressors got my SBR MPX stamp back and dying to find a can for it, google all points back to this thread.

Ive fund others where people have chopped the barrels back and kind of give it the SD look, thats not what I was looking to do right away. I'd also like to find a can that I can use with other 9mm platform like a pistol down the road....like one can two uses not just one dedicated for the MPX

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Re: Suppressor for MPX

Post by TROOPER » Mon Feb 01, 2016 7:11 pm

I'm sure you won't find a shred of disappointment with the Mystic-X.

As far as cutting back the barrel, yes, a lot of people are doing this. Being new to silencers, you may have misunderstood why this is happening. Part of the reason for this is that they, and myself, want the barrel to be threaded 1/2 x 28 -- by far the most common threading for 9mm silencers in the US. The MPX comes 13.5 LH, which is extremely common for 9mm suppressors in Europe. Therefore, if you want a silencer that you can unscrew from your MPX and put on your 9mm handgun, then the question boils down to which is easier to make compliant... altering your MPX to 1/x2 x 28? Or trying to find aftermarket barrels for your handgun that are 13.5 LH.... and ensuring that when you purchase your 9mm silencer, that it is threaded appropriately. Ultimately, you need all three things to match, and some -- again, myself included -- have found it easier to bring the MPX over to 1/2 x 28 instead of trying to find the appropriate adapter for a silencer, or finding after-market handgun barrels.

Now please keep in mind that it isn't too difficult to get a hold of a GLOCK 17 threaded for 13.5 LH... or a Sig 9mm handgun threaded the same way. So it can be tempting to go the 13.5 LH route... but this may narrow the field of silencers that you have to choose from.

I can promise you that if you have money, you can get your way on this subject, regardless of what 'your way' is. But generally speaking, it may be easier to take all three to a 1/2 x 28.... and if you do this, you'll need to cut the barrel of your MPX... and if you do that, then why not cut it much shorter so that the overall package is handier. The blessing-and-curse of 9mm is that beyond 12 inches, there is no gain with 147 grain. At the same time, the difference between an 8-inch barrel and a 4-inch barrel isn't as great as you'd think:

147 grain 9mm:
8-inch barrel -- 1,047 fps
7-inch barrel -- 1,040 fps
6-inch barrel -- 1,030 fps
5-inch barrel -- 1,007 fps
4-inch barrel -- 951 fps

Based on that, you can see that there's no practical difference in between the 8 and the 5 inch given what people actually do with a 9mm... and realistically, the 4-inch barrel doesn't yield any difference except on paper. In the 'real world', the numbers shown here aren't significantly different.

Mystic-X will do right by you. It isn't the only one which will serve you well, but I'd consider it among the top-tier out there now.

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Re: Suppressor for MPX

Post by tripntx » Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:29 pm

I've been shooting my 8" MPX with ACC EVO-9 attached, but have both SilCo Osprey 45 and TM SG-2 9 cans on order. It's been rumored the 4.5" factory Sig MPX barrels will be ready for release as a barrel swap kit in the next couple of months (don't hold your breath). I'm sticking with 13.5 because my Blue Label G17 came with factory barrel which is also 13.5.
My plan, will use Osprey with 8" barrel, and SG-2 with 4.5" barrel.

My MPX is finally a complete SBR. The MPX-Tele stock I ordered in June 2015 was finally delivered last Friday. The week prior I took delivery of the Kate Moss Folder. I like the folder better than the tele.

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Re: Suppressor for MPX

Post by tarjas » Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:47 am

I have a Mystic X on my MPX with Liberty's 3 lug adapter. I have been very pleased with the set up, the QD is awesome to pull the suppressor of for packing/etc.

The Mystic is a long can but it suppresses the MPX well. I only have a couple hundred rounds down it but have had no issues with gas, etc. Liberty is a great company that has helped me with a few issues I have had with other hosts.

Link below has a pic to get an idea of the overall length with a 4.5" barrel I had cut. No complaints. That said, I do have an Obsidian in jail, running it in the K config with a 3 lug on my MPX is going to be sweet!

http://imgur.com/a/4rG1U

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