Newbie with Questions

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BABore
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Newbie with Questions

Post by BABore »

Hello all,

I do not own a can as of yet, but am seriously interested. I'm getting my NFA Trust going right now. I have done a good deal of online research and have narrowed cans down to a couple in particular and wanted opinions and other options.

My needs are fairly specific. I am a cast bullet shooter and am looking for a user serviceable can. That is a must for me. I will be primarily suppressing a 300 BO in a bolt gun. A Ruger American with 1 in 7 twist to be specific. I have already worked up two different sub loads that meet my accuracy needs out to 250-300 yards, though they will most likely be used at 100 yards or less. Since I don't need to cycle an action, I chose the fastest powder based on accuracy to limit the gas volume. For me, this was Accurate Arms #5. My goal is to have a very quite suppressed load.

I have narrowed my search to two different cans;

Liberty Mystic X
Thompson Machine 30Ti

Both are similar in design, weight, physical size, and cost. The 30Ti is slightly larger in dimension, but is also rated for full velocity 308 Win., which the Mystic is not. The Mystic is usable for many 357 caliber rounds. The 30TI does not list anything above 308 Win. All this tells me that that the 30TI will contain more gas volume and has a smaller hole. In theory, it should be more quite. Is this correct?

The Mystic X uses thread adapters ($95 MSRP) to change between barrel thread sizes. The 30Ti is only 5/8-24. I couldn't see where you could buy a replacement for 1/2-28. Are they available from Thompson, or do you have to make your own?

So, bottom line. Is my understanding correct? Are the two mentioned cans my best options based on my criteria? Are there better options? Will I really noticed a sound difference between them?

Thanks
rimshaker
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Re: Newbie with Questions

Post by rimshaker »

I would recommend going with the Mystic. It's the most versatile take-apart can on the market. On both rifles and pistols.

And having a stainless steel core allows you more cleaning options than the 30Ti (which has titanium internals).

The Mystic has a multitude of removeable mounting options, both direct thread and QA/QD. With the 30Ti you'd have to use thread adapters, which generally aren't recommended since they can introduce tolerance stacking and affect precision and POI.
hardcase
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Re: Newbie with Questions

Post by hardcase »

I don't have a Thompson Machine 30 TI but do have a Mystic. I use it on my 300 BO, 5.56 AR, and 9 mm pistols. It can be used on a .22 LR as well and I have but not since I got a .22 can.

The diameter of the Mystic is small enough that I can line up the top of the tube utilizing the stock sights on my Glock 19, i.e. the top of the tube is even with the sights. I use a EO-Tec on the 5.56 and a 3-9 scope on my Rem 700 SPS 300 BO bolt gun.

If you plan to use the can on an auto pistol, most now require a booster to function properly. The Mystic has a booster, a 1/2 fixed and a 5/8 fixed for use on a long gun available. The adapters are not cheap, but necessary.

I'm curious about your sub loads to 250-300 yds. Have you shot any yet? My backyard range is only to 100 yds but plan on going to one of 250 yds. For my rifle, beyond 75 yds with subs, the arc is more like a mortar (a bit of exaggeration but you get the idea). How much hold over do you use at 250 yds and bullet weight and profile? I'm not sure I'd have enough up adjustments in the cheap Redfield scope on my 300 BO.
BABore
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Location: Michigan

Re: Newbie with Questions

Post by BABore »

Thanks for the replies. How quite is the Mystic with your subsonic Blackout loads? I do like the versatility, but was concerned that I may be giving up noise reduction to get it. Having no experience with suppressors isn't a help.

As far as the load I developed. It uses a 175 grain gas checked bullet that is similar to the RCBS 30 silhoutte. I built the original mold when I was making molds commerically under BRP Molds. It is now produced by MP Molds out of Slovenia. I started out with a copy I made of the Lyman 311284 design that weighs 235 grains. This bullet actually fits the BO throat and engraves into the rifling. The 175 grains doesn't. I didn't have much hope for it, but it shot well. Low velocity helps cover alot of sins sometimes. I ran the numbers in QuickLoad and 6.5 grains of Accurate Artms #5 was said to be 1,100 fps with a 16.25" bbl. The load chronographed at 1,104 fps with a ES of 4 fps. I'm using a CCI 500 small pistol primer for both sensitivity and early pressure monitoring.

The bulk of my accuracy testing was 5-shot groups at 50 yards until I had a workable load, then I moved out to 100 yards. The rifle was sighted dead on at 50 yards and had an 7 inch drop at 100 yards. I'm guessing here, but at 250 yards I was holding the main crosshair 9-10 feet over the POI. This was still with the 50 yard zero. The next time out I plan to re-zero at 100 yards and then check the drop at 200 and 300 yards. The 3-12 Leopold I'm using have their holdover lines below the main x-hair as well as the lower post. I should be able to dial in the power ring to adjust my hits to coincide with them. I'll keep you posted on my results.
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Emilio
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Re: Newbie with Questions

Post by Emilio »

Are you talking about the "Ruger American Ranch"? If so,, great rifle, best value out of the box hands down!

30 cal cans will be more quiet but I use my Octane 9 & 45 cans and 45 can with 9 end cap for easy cleaning of anything lead and sub sonic. I love Liberty but the Octanes are the easiest pistol cans to clean and I use them for 22 to 45- 44 mag.

I use mostly 220 gr and if you cast you should coat your bullets for less fouling for cans.you can buy cheap coated bullets from Missouri also.

If you live around people and need to be very quiet then you need a 30 cal can, if you just want to shoot in comfort a pistol can is plenty good.

As you can see , I don't have neighbors and don't care about Hollywood quiet or anything else,,,just hate ear plugs.. :mrgreen:


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hardcase
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Re: Newbie with Questions

Post by hardcase »

I think the powder used makes more difference than the brand of can as long as it is from a reputable manufactured and meets you needs. My limited experience for subs in the 300 BO is a faster burning handgun powder is quieter than a slow burning powder. I'd rather have a fast burning powder with a 45 can than a slow powder with a 30 can.

On my 300 BO, I can't tell the difference in my YH 30 cal and my Mystic 9 mm except weight with identical loads. I can't tell the difference in my Mystic on my .22 and my .22 can except weight as long as the rounds are sub-sonic and the same. My chronograph is set up in a storage building. Mine has infrared lighting. Some slower powders I actually see a large muzzle flash even with my 30 cal can. The advertisements for db listed in marketing means little when comparing one can to another as there are so many variables in testing. First round pop can be worse in some than others. People here with multiple cans are a better source of information.

Weight makes a difference too. A heavy can takes fun away.

I don't think 1,100 fps is a reasonable goal. I try for 1,000-1,025 fps to avoid the supersonic crack. Much over 1,025 at my altitude with general changes in atmospheric conditions and some go super.

As a general rule, the smaller the caliber, the easier it is to ring out the most in quieting. Some also use water or wire pulling jel to ring out more from their cans.
BABore
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Re: Newbie with Questions

Post by BABore »

Yes, I kind of figured that I might have to slow it down just a bit. I agree on the powder burn rate. Without a suppressor, if you want a quite load you use a fast powder and a longer barrel. I've loaded my 22 Hornet down as far as 0.75 grs of Bullseye with a 46 gr. cast. In a 22 inch bbl it sounds like a Daisy Red Ryder. Switch to Unique and the noise goes up with the same velocity.

As far as powder coating bullets or buying them that way, I'll have to pass on that for now. Most of the common leading issues surrounding cast bullets stems from poorly fit bullets made from too hard of an alloy that's lubed with Crayola like lube. Typical of high volume commercial casters. I used to shoot said bullets in my compensated Colt GC. The comp would be coated with lead after 100 rounds. Since I've casted my own of a softer alloy, sized to my gun, and lubed with a soft lube, I haven't cleaned the comp in 1,000s of rounds. That said, I do plan on preparing for the worst which is why I've been looking at serviceable cans.

This brings up another thought. I have used a product called Ultra Bore Coat to treat barrels that foul easily. It's a micro ceramic compound in an evaporating carrier. It fills in the pores and irregularities so fouling has less areas to adhere. It has worked extremely well and has an excellent rep. Has anyone here used it to treat a baffle core?

For those that own a Mystic X, can you get different end caps with a closer to 30 cal hole or does it also require the monocore thru hole to be sized closely to control the sound?
hardcase
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Re: Newbie with Questions

Post by hardcase »

BABore wrote:
This brings up another thought. I have used a product called Ultra Bore Coat to treat barrels that foul easily. It's a micro ceramic compound in an evaporating carrier. It fills in the pores and irregularities so fouling has less areas to adhere. It has worked extremely well and has an excellent rep. Has anyone here used it to treat a baffle core? Suppressors tend to be picky on what goes in them or used to clean them. Depends on what they are made of. I don't clean mine nearly as much now as I did when I first got a can. It was hard to get use to, thinking the cleaner the better but not generally considered to be the case with suppressors. I clean mine now when I figure it is at the point where it would be hard to take apart.

For those that own a Mystic X, can you get different end caps with a closer to 30 cal hole or does it also require the monocore thru hole to be sized closely to control the sound? I don't think so as the end cap is part of the baffles. Really would be picking nits with the Mystic X and not worth the effort even if it could be done. It would have to be custom work by someone who works on suppressors. Since the SN is on the tube, and not the baffles or end cap, maybe.
rimshaker
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Re: Newbie with Questions

Post by rimshaker »

BABore wrote:For those that own a Mystic X, can you get different end caps with a closer to 30 cal hole or does it also require the monocore thru hole to be sized closely to control the sound?
The Mystic has a single piece monolithic core so everything is fixed. It has a bore profile for 9mm, which is pretty close enough for 30cal. Any sound difference is probably negligible.
hardcase
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Re: Newbie with Questions

Post by hardcase »

You may not have seen this persons thread but it is about a 9 mm bolt gun conversion with an integral suppressor viewtopic.php?f=2&t=133105. I've never shot or been around one, except a .22 but the integral cans are supposed to be the quietest things going. Obviously couldn't put it on any other gun. The ballistics seem to be about what a 300 BO would be with the same bullet weights. Plenty of 9 mm brass available. The more I read the thread the more I want one. You could probably shoot heavier bullets in your 300 BO though. Liberty says you are allowed to shoot lead in the Mystic X. I don't know about this 9 mm bolt conversion.

I'd like to have one but my gun safe is full and I've met my quota of firearms purchases until the fall of the year. Hazards of being married :D .
Kanook
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Re: Newbie with Questions

Post by Kanook »

You will end up with more than 1 suppressor, so might as well get the Liberty Mystic X to start and save up for a 30cal can later.
BABore
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Re: Newbie with Questions

Post by BABore »

Thanks for answering my questions. I got the ball rolling today by getting my NFA trust going. Should have it done in a few days and move on to the next step.
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