Another Variation on "short 5.56 suppressors"

[krowpots]

Before I start I should probably say I've read the two other recent threads here on this topic already. However neither OP seems to have had the seem goals in mind, and that changed the answers given.

So I am building an AR, and I intend to run it suppressed. It will be my primary HD rifle, but will also be shot out to 400 yards. I am looking to keep the barrel+suppressor under 20in OAL, without double-stamping or gimping ballistics at distance (with TMKs). This means either a 16in barrel + suppressor that adds <4.1in past the end of the muzzle NOT muzzle device,or a 14.5in pinned + suppressor that adds <5.51in past the end of the muzzle (or some variation on those themes not exceeding 20in by much).

In addition to meeting the length requirement, I am looking for a suppressor that is:

-Full auto rated (mag dumps will not happen often, but will happen).
-Quite enough for HD, at least to the point where I am not concussed.
-Suppresses enough flash to not be spitting fireballs after the first round (I've heard some TI through serious sparks).
-Light enough not to seriously unbalance a relatively light build.
-Cheap enough so my wife doesn't put me under and sell my organs to cover the cost.

So I've compiled a list of suppressors that seem to meet my criteria. They are as follows:

Gemtech: Trek/Trek-T/GMT-5.56LE/Patrolman- all add only ~4in past end of barrel, weight and price are 17.3oz/10.8oz/12.3oz/12.3oz and $500/$900/$650/$850 respectively.
SRT Arms: Typhoon/Typhoon TI- add only 4.1in past end of barrel, weight and price are 17oz/9oz and $545/$965 respectively. <---Not sure if full auto.
AAC: Mini 4- adds 4in past end of barrel, 13.5oz+mount and $750 Maybe the M4-2000 at 5.2in added?
Allen Engineering: AEM2- adds 3.75in? past end of barrel, 15oz+mount and $575
Delta P Design: Brevis II/Bervis IIUltra- adds 3.7in past end of barrel, 11.5oz/7.5oz and $1400/$1500 respectively. <--- Not sure if full auto.
Surefire: Socom 5.56 mini- adds 5in past end of barrel, 14.5oz+mount and $1100.
Innovative Arms: Grunt-M Exo: 5in past end of barrel, 14.5oz $650.
Huntertown Arms: Chameleon 5.56 Mini, 5in past end of barrel, 10.5oz and $600 <---Not sure if full auto. They say "moderate?"
Suppressed Armament: M-455/EADROM- 5.5in past end of barrel, 15oz/9oz, $575/$715 <---Not sure if full auto.
Maybe the AWC: Raider? Unsure on length added.
Maybe Griffin Armaments: Recce 5 or M4SD-k? Unsure on length added.

There is no budget for this part as I have time to save, and if something is worth saving for 8 months to get vs getting now or in 2 months that's fine. But the performance needs to be worth it for the price. I'm just looking for the minimum in each category that will meet the length requirement. In other words, the best performance per dollar after meeting the other requirements.

So here is the help I need your help selecting a suppressor. Which one(s) best fit my needs? Are there any too avoid? Anyone have any experience with a similar situation or any of these suppressors? Are there any not on this list that should be? Are there any on the list that shouldn't be?

Thanks so much for the info!

[quiettime]

...There is no budget for this part as I have time to save, and if something is worth saving for 8 months to get vs getting now or in 2 months that's fine. But the performance needs to be worth it for the price. I'm just looking for the minimum in each category that will meet the length requirement. In other words, the best performance per dollar after meeting the other requirements. ...

They're liable to come out with something better in 8 months. Start saving now and keep checking this forum for reviews like the great ones from Fireman1291 and others

[krowpots]

O don't worry I will be keeping up to date if it comes to saving. I would never make a purchase unless I was 110% sure it was the best for the money (hence this thread).

I'd still like to know about the current crop of short suppressors (some of which have very long lifespans ahead of them).

[OJB4]

My Liberty Constitution (a couple years old mind you) is pretty short. 6.35 inches so if you have a 14.5 inch barrel it'll put you close to the 20 inch mark in OAL. It's heavy by todays standards though....comes in at almost 20 oz. It's full auto rated and it's also a take apart so you can double duty it as a 22 LR can if you feel like goofing off and cleaning it up. They're also a great company in my opinion. They've always been very helpful when I've called them with questions, etc.

Good luck choosing. I'm sure there's plenty lighter ones on the market now, but my Constitution has served me very well.

[RJT]

The only advice I have, is to stay away from GemTech, Huntertown, and AWC.

[krowpots]

Stay away from GemTech? Why? I've heard bad things about the other two companies, what is the problem with GemTech?

Also does anyone know if the SRT Arms Typhoon is full auto rated?

[JasonM]

In addition to meeting the length requirement, I am looking for a suppressor that is:

-Full auto rated (mag dumps will not happen often, but will happen).
-Quite enough for HD, at least to the point where I am not concussed.
-Suppresses enough flash to not be spitting fireballs after the first round (I've heard some TI through serious sparks).
-Light enough not to seriously unbalance a relatively light build.
-Cheap enough so my wife doesn't put me under and sell my organs to cover the cost.

So I've compiled a list of suppressors that seem to meet my criteria. They are as follows:

Gemtech: Trek/Trek-T/GMT-5.56LE/Patrolman- all add only ~4in past end of barrel, weight and price are 17.3oz/10.8oz/12.3oz/12.3oz and $500/$900/$650/$850 respectively.
SRT Arms: Typhoon/Typhoon TI- add only 4.1in past end of barrel, weight and price are 17oz/9oz and $545/$965 respectively. <---Not sure if full auto.
AAC: Mini 4- adds 4in past end of barrel, 13.5oz+mount and $750 Maybe the M4-2000 at 5.2in added?
Allen Engineering: AEM2- adds 3.75in? past end of barrel, 15oz+mount and $575
Delta P Design: Brevis II/Bervis IIUltra- adds 3.7in past end of barrel, 11.5oz/7.5oz and $1400/$1500 respectively. <--- Not sure if full auto.
Surefire: Socom 5.56 mini- adds 5in past end of barrel, 14.5oz+mount and $1100.
Innovative Arms: Grunt-M Exo: 5in past end of barrel, 14.5oz $650.
Huntertown Arms: Chameleon 5.56 Mini, 5in past end of barrel, 10.5oz and $600 <---Not sure if full auto. They say "moderate?"
Suppressed Armament: M-455/EADROM- 5.5in past end of barrel, 15oz/9oz, $575/$715 <---Not sure if full auto.
Maybe the AWC: Raider? Unsure on length added.
Maybe Griffin Armaments: Recce 5 or M4SD-k? Unsure on length added.

There is no budget for this part as I have time to save, and if something is worth saving for 8 months to get vs getting now or in 2 months that's fine. But the performance needs to be worth it for the price. I'm just looking for the minimum in each category that will meet the length requirement. In other words, the best performance per dollar after meeting the other requirements.

So here is the help I need your help selecting a suppressor. Which one(s) best fit my needs? Are there any too avoid? Anyone have any experience with a similar situation or any of these suppressors? Are there any not on this list that should be? Are there any on the list that shouldn't be?

Thanks so much for the info!

You've got a good set of realistic expectations.

Personally, I dislike pinning anything since i want to be able to remove the can to either use it on other hosts, clean the mount, and inspect it in the case of any damage or suspected damage. Same thing with muzzle devices - occasionally you might want to update or change the device if something new comes out, i know it's blasphemy, but you might not want to shoot with the can all the time, and finally if you are using a brake, it is a wear item and depending on the ammo you are using it can actually wear out relatively fast. Having it pinned greatly complicates replacement.

So, personally I'd go 16" plus mini can. My off-the-bat top two choices based on experience are the Surefire SOCOM Mini and the AAC MINI4. All mini cans will have some flash in the dark, especially on the first shot. Nothing you can really do about this. Some ammos have flash retardants that can help.

You're going to get nothing but personal opinions as answers, many masquerading as authoritative information, but the vast majority will come from people that have never seen or touched (much less used) most or all of the cans you are asking about. 90% of the answers will be pushing the can they chose as a way to justify/defend their own choice(s). The silencer world is a fickle place. Take everything with a grain of salt, even what I'm saying.

that said, i've been fortunate enough to have used a lot of silencers over the years on many hosts in many environments... my 2¢:

(full-auto rating id kind of a buzzword and doesn't mean much these days, especially if you don't HAVE full-auto)

Trek - this is really well-liked by people that have them and is a good deal as well. If you are going thread-on, it's a good choice.

SRT - I have never been impressed with anything I've shot from SRT... old tech, heavy, loud, and lots of flash.

AAC MINI4 - as unimpressive as Remington is and what they've done to AAC, the MINI4 is a really solid little can. durable, sounds good (for a mini can).

Allen Engineering - have never seen it in-person, but the old OPS Inc stuff was really good performance-wise, if a bit dated in design.

Delta P - I've only used the Brevis 1, and was not impressed at all.. it seemed to be the poster child for "In terms of performace, You can't make up for lack of length with girth"... maybe the 2 is better.

Surefire SOCOM Mini - not super sound, but it takes the edge off. Super durable, and hands-down the best mount in the biz (maybe until i get more time with the new Sig stuff). Main hit against it is the cost.

Innovative arms - i thought the Grunt was really loud.

Hunter town Arms - too many horror stories about them and customer service to even consider.

Suppressed Armament - have never used

AWC Raider - I think of AWC like SRT... I have never been impressed with their product. Loud, heavy, BS claims.

Griffin Armament - These guys seem to have weathered the storm of a rocky start and are putting out some well-regarded stuff these days. I've got no personal experience with their new stuff.

____________

Also take a look at the Silencerco Omega... it's a little bigger than what you want, but with the thread mount and flat end cap, it is relatively small and will sound a lot better than the mini cans.

And finally consider looking at the new stuff from Sig Silencers (Kevin formerly of AAC), Rugged Suppressors (Henry formerly of SWR), and Dead Air Silencers (Mike Pappas formerly of Silencerco).
Some cool stuff in the works.

Also, if you are waiting 8 months, you'll get to see any new stuff that comes out at SHOT '16... I'm sure there will be some cool stuff. But remember that most of it shown in january won't actually ship until most likely next summer.

Good luck!

[krowpots]

Wow JasonM, I cannot thank you enough this is exactly the kind of info I was looking for. I posted this same thread to M4carbine, ARFcom, and reddit almost NO ONE has given me a strait answer like you, 95% just wanted to push one can (the one they had, or wished they had) or worse yet a whole different setup ("why not just go 300blk .458socom my FOTM wildcat"). Not that any were wrong or bad, it's just not what I need or am looking for right now.

I am heavily leaning towards the Trek since it is so cheap. I'd love either mini, but both are around $700-$800 without a mount. When you say Trek you mean the 17.3oz version or the T 10.5oz version? My only worry about the 17.3 (cheap) one is that it would add a little over a pound to a build that, with a 16in barrel would already be a bit front heavy. In your admirable wealth of knowledge do you have any experience in this area with similar weight/length setups?

Again many thanks!

[aries14482]

The only comments I feel qualified to add are:

1. Don't be afraid of thread-on cans. Rocksett will absolutely prevent them from backing off and isn't semi permanent, as some people seem to fear. They do save the weight a quick attach muzzle device would add (a quarter pound, typically).

2. I've never talked to anyone with a can on a carbine who didn't eventually put light weight high on the list of priorities for their next can.

Personally, I recommend also investigating the use of a lightweight barrel. If you get the chance to try out a lightweight can on a lightweight barrel and compare with more typical setups, see what you think. I've had opportunity to handle AAC, Surefire, and low-end thread-on cans on 16" and 10.5" AR15s, and I really feel that a can under 16oz total weight along with a lightweight barrel makes a drastic difference in handling. I still really like my lightweight barrel setup with 15.5oz thread on can. I've used it for 3-gun, mag dumps while playing around, plinking, etc. There are even lighter options out there now as well, even without the use of titanium.

[thecameraman79]

You're always going to get opinions specially since that's what your asking for. if you wanted to just know the specs you'd go on the manufactures websites and get the numbers. Typically people are going to recommend the cans that they bought well because they did their research most of the time and they picked the can they bought for a reason and most people aren't going to own all the cans mentioned or own that many guns with all the different mounting options. I bought a Mini 4 and love it so far. It's still in jail but I've had the opportunity to fire it 4 separate occasions.

I went with the mini 4 because I like AAC and my SDN-6 Because I mounted the break I can run the SDN-6 if I want a little better suppression but since it'll never be hearing safe on my SBR I know i'll always be wearing some kind of hearing protection. From watching it being shot there is definitely some muzzle flash that comes out of the front of the can on a 10.5" barrel some of the time but it's not visible to the shooter (or at least not to this shooter anyway). I like the weight and size and would fit the bill for what you are looking for in that regard.

Again I can't speak for the other cans as I've never held or fired any of them but I like the size, weight and quality of the Mini 4 and how it knocks most of the concussion of the 5.56 down to a much more manageable level.

[krowpots]

Thanks for the info on the mini 4, it is certainly very attractive. How do you like the QD mount? I've been told maany don't find it secure enough?

I am not looking for specs but experience like yous. There is a large difference between saying "this is what I've seen with this or these cans" (like your post) vs "you should buy x can because I said so (no more info given).". One is far more helpful and informative than the other.

[JasonM]

Thanks for the info on the mini 4, it is certainly very attractive. How do you like the QD mount? I've been told maany don't find it secure enough?

I am not looking for specs but experience like yous. There is a large difference between saying "this is what I've seen with this or these cans" (like your post) vs "you should buy x can because I said so (no more info given).". One is far more helpful and informative than the other.

The AAC mounts (51T) can have a little wiggle, but i've never seen that cause any problems. After some shooting, the carbon tightens them right up.
They are just as accurate and repeatable as any other good cans.

(any wiggle freaks some people out though)

[quiettime]

...Griffin Armament - These guys seem to have weathered the storm of a rocky start and are putting out some well-regarded stuff these days. I've got no personal experience with their new stuff....

All I can say is I've fondled my Recce 5 at the jailhouse and it is a solid little compact can. I can't wait to run it, seems like I will hardly notice it on the end of my 14.5

And finally consider looking at the new stuff from Sig Silencers (Kevin formerly of AAC), Rugged Suppressors (Henry formerly of SWR), and Dead Air Silencers (Mike Pappas formerly of Silencerco).
Some cool stuff in the works.

No doubt these are exciting times

[thecameraman79]

Yeah I have heard talk about the wiggle and my very first can was the SDN-6 which has the exact same 51T mounting system and it had the "dreaded wiggle" which made me very nervous being my first can and all. after shooting it some I noticed it had no affect on anything and after taking it on and off a few times I was actually able to tighten it one more tooth and it has just about zero wiggle ever since. If I wasn't able to tighten it down the extra tooth I wouldn't worry though since it didn't give me any issues the first few times shooting it with the very minor wiggle.

Since then I have bought a few new "toys" and new 51T mounts for my scar 17 (flash hider) and Remington 700 (muzzle brake) and none of them have any wiggle to mention. My Mini 4 locks up nice and tight on it's 51T muzzle brake. I've heard people light sanding a tooth to get that one extra tooth to grab and that has worked for them I just haven't found it necessary to get a tight lockup on any of the 4 mounts I have.

To be fair the SDN-6 and Mini 4 are my only rifle cans at the moment (have an omega on order) so I can't compare it to any other mounting system nor have I played with any other mounting system but I feel both of mine lock up tight and have repeatable POI shifts.

Thanks for the info on the mini 4, it is certainly very attractive. How do you like the QD mount? I've been told maany don't find it secure enough?

I am not looking for specs but experience like yous. There is a large difference between saying "this is what I've seen with this or these cans" (like your post) vs "you should buy x can because I said so (no more info given).". One is far more helpful and informative than the other.

[wtrski76]

Another nice can that would fit your requirements is the silencerco specwar K - 13.7oz and 6.2" long. Full Stellite baffle stack and under $600. I did find out that the Omega with the ASR mount is also 13.7oz and 6.7" long, so another candidate, albeit more expensive.