AAC Illusion 9 indexing on sig MPX?

[fullofdays]

My Illusion 9 is an jail and I'm trying to determine if my MPX gen II carbine with a keymod style handguard. I'm trying to determine if the 9 mm can will be able to host it under the handguard. Does anyone have experience with an illusion 9 on an MPX or AR handguard? Its an eccentric design which is fantastic for pistol hosts and I'm wondering if I'll have to index it upside down so it will fit under the handguard.

Does anyone know how the illusion 9 indexes? Is it similar in design to the osprey with a clutch?

[CanOfWhooppass]

On an AR with round handguard, the barrel is centerline to the handguard. Most larger handguard are about 1.8" ID, that works with up to about a 1.5" suppressor. You will want some space between the suppressor and handguard to keep the handguard cool. Also many of those handguard use add on rails and the screws/mounts can take up some space inside the handguard as well.

I'd find out from the distance from center of bore to furthest edge of your suppressor, add .15 for clearance and then double that to find out the minimum ID handguard you need. Even if you can find a handguard that large you may not be able to get a decent grip on it.

[RJT]

Okie dokie. Here is a picture that illustrates what we're working with:

This is from another MPX thread. Maybe it will help.

ETA - That is an Evo 9.

[CanOfWhooppass]

Looks like even IF it can index somehow, you would have to remove the handguard every time you wanted to clean it. I understand that is simple on this weapon.

But, it also means that if you are using direct thread and the suppressor unscrew a tiny bit you will have metal on metal contact damaging the finish. Mounted upside-down I would expect it to be prone to unscrewing. If the contact actualy applies force it could mess with alignment.

I'd proceed with caution. I went with under the handguard on my 9mm AR build, but my suppressor is concentric with a 3-lug so unscrewing is unlikely and even if it did I'm using a 45 can so I've got some extra tolerances.

[este]

Looks like even IF it can index somehow, you would have to remove the handguard every time you wanted to clean it. I understand that is simple on this weapon.

But, it also means that if you are using direct thread and the suppressor unscrew a tiny bit you will have metal on metal contact damaging the finish. Mounted upside-down I would expect it to be prone to unscrewing. If the contact actualy applies force it could mess with alignment.

I'd proceed with caution. I went with under the handguard on my 9mm AR build, but my suppressor is concentric with a 3-lug so unscrewing is unlikely and even if it did I'm using a 45 can so I've got some extra tolerances.

Which leads to the obvious question.... of why bother!?

[fullofdays]

well i dont want to pay to chop a perfectly good full length sig rail for one. paying for a shorter rail is not cost effective either. Trying to keep modification cost to a minimum.

[CanOfWhooppass]

well i dont want to pay to chop a perfectly good full length sig rail for one. paying for a shorter rail is not cost effective either. Trying to keep modification cost to a minimum.

I'm not sure I follow. Your gun should already have a barrel that puts the muzzle at the end of the handguard or beyond. If you add a thread adapter (I think the mpx is metric to 1/2x28) your suppressor should clear the handguard. Usualy only time you do under is if you buy a new shorter barrel or longer handguard.

[fullofdays]

Sorry for the confusion... I have a carbine with a 16 inch bbl and a 15 inch keymod rail. Not a pistol with an 8 inch bbl and 6 inch rail...

[CanOfWhooppass]

Sorry for the confusion... I have a carbine with a 16 inch bbl and a 15 inch keymod rail. Not a pistol with an 8 inch bbl and 6 inch rail...

It sounds like you are trying to force fit what you have to stay cheap, which is a bad idea. A 16" barrel is a poor choice for a suppressed 9mm because even 147gr ammo will be supersonic with much more than a 7 to 8" barrel. I'd think hard about where you want to end up so you don't spend way more money in the long run. If I had your gun I'd be thinking SBR for sure.

If you just want a cheap way to mount what you have I'd look for an adapter to go between your barrel and suppressor to give you a little more length. You may require an adapter if your barrel doesn't have the same threads as your suppressor anyway. You know you need a fixed mount, right?

If you decide you will go SBR later, figure out what handguard you will need for it, it will solve this problem too. Goodluck!

[RJT]

A 16" barrel is a poor choice for a suppressed 9mm because even 147gr ammo will be supersonic with much more than a 7 to 8" barrel. I'd think hard about where you want to end up so you don't spend way more money in the long run. If I had your gun I'd be thinking SBR for sure.

Not really, my 147s stay subsonic out of a Colt 9mm. It's just unwieldy for a HD setup with a can.

For the skeptical... http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html

[CanOfWhooppass]

"Not really, my 147s stay subsonic out of a Colt 9mm. It's just unwieldy for a HD setup with a can."

For the skeptical... http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html[/quote]

Thanks for the correction, I don't have any first hand knowledge, but I just researched barrel length for my 9mm build and based it off the Internet. That is very close though!

[TROOPER]

My CX4 Storm also keeps 9mm 147 grain subsonic. Barrel length is 16.6 inches.

Close... sure, but the pressure for 9mm tapers so quickly that there's no real difference in performance once you get beyond 12 inches.

[CanOfWhooppass]

My CX4 Storm also keeps 9mm 147 grain subsonic. Barrel length is 16.6 inches.

Close... sure, but the pressure for 9mm tapers so quickly that there's no real difference in performance once you get beyond 12 inches.

Thanks, I'm not sure why I was so sure in my belief without double checking, but I'm glad i got fact checked. My defense load is Federal HST 147 +P, not sure of if that would change matters, but even if so, it is the exception to the rule. I ended up going 5" 3-lug, AR mostly for ballance and moving through tighter spaces.

[TROOPER]

That's the funny thing with 9mm: past 12 inches, no gain. But going shorter... no real loss either. Difference between a GLOCK 17 and a GLOCK 19 in terms of 'power'? 10... 15 fps. Nothing to get worked up over, and not enough to make-or-break any situation.

[fullofdays]

UPDATE: just picked up my new can from my FFL and was told by the armorer there that the illusion 9 piston does not work on any 9 carbines. It's a pistol only suppressor design and is meant to move with the barrel and action of a pistol. He called AAC to confirm and they told him an adaptor is 'in the works'. Wish I had known this before purchasing as its a niche 9mm can and not an all rounder like a tirant or other 9mm cans on the market.

Not sure what to do now as my form 1 just cleared for my soon to be SBR'd MPX and now I have a can that doesn't work for my new SBR host... Hmmmm. Any thoughts?

[TROOPER]

UPDATE: just picked up my new can from my FFL and was told by the armorer there that the illusion 9 piston does not work on any 9 carbines. It's a pistol only suppressor design and is meant to move with the barrel and action of a pistol. He called AAC to confirm and they told him an adaptor is 'in the works'. Wish I had known this before purchasing as its a niche 9mm can and not an all rounder like a tirant or other 9mm cans on the market.

Not sure what to do now as my form 1 just cleared for my soon to be SBR'd MPX and now I have a can that doesn't work for my new SBR host... Hmmmm. Any thoughts?

If you use the silencer on the MPX, you risk the danger of damaging the threads on the barrel of the MPX, and that would suck.

Not much you can do.
... wait for an adapter
... find a reasonable host for your current 9mm and really enjoy it
... start the wait process on a dedicated carbine silencer like the Thompson Machine SG-2. You won't regret it, and you won't need it to pull duty on a pistol since you've got a quality pistol silencer now.

There's really not much you can do. Take a moment to pull yourself together... take a deep breath... then look objectively at the situation you are actually in versus the situation you'd like to be in, then move on from there. Disappointment aside, you're 'stuck' with a great handgun silencer... and that's not a truly terrible position to be in.

[fullofdays]

Guess I'll buy another can. Not a bad thing

[1rflman]

Could you have a custom spacer tube made to replace the spring in the Nielson device? Indexing the can could be accomplished by changing the piston position when assembling the booster with spacer. Just a thought...

[rimshaker]

Was thinking maybe one of the existing Tirant or Evo fixed spacers would work, but after looking at the Illusion's spring... it's way longer. Several coils longer than a Tirant's.

Pretty sure AAC already has some Illusion spacers in-house. Just not mass produced yet.