Negligible noise difference between standard vs subsonics

[Philrozzi]

I went to the range today with my brand new .22 rifle and because everyone was saying that with subsonic ammo you only hear the hammer click I bought a box of cci quiets to try.

When I ran out of subsonic I went back to my regular cci's and to my ear there was no audible difference and no supersonic crack. I was very surprised due to the fact that everyone was saying how they ran subsonic ammo because it was much quieter.

I will probably just stick with the regular cci's because the flight path/trajectory of the quiet-22's was just awful to me.

[Loki_stormbringer]

If your using CCI standard velocity I believe those are also subsonic.

[Philrozzi]

If your using CCI standard velocity I believe those are also subsonic.

Ok that explains it. I wish I would of known that before I sighted it in for quiets and then had to re-sight again for standard, lol.

[curtistactical]

The CCI standard velocity rounds are one of the quietest 22 rounds available that I know of. I have metered a bunch of 22 ammo and these are my favorite.
Joe

[Philrozzi]

The CCI standard velocity rounds are one of the quietest 22 rounds available that I know of. I have metered a bunch of 22 ammo and these are my favorite.
Joe

Yeah they're amazing. They're all I've ever used in my ruger 22/45 but shooting them out of a pistol is a tad bit louder.

[Loki_stormbringer]

They should say on the box like 1050 FPS.

Changed to 1050 instead of 1150.

[doubloon]

If your using CCI standard velocity I believe those are also subsonic.

Ok that explains it. I wish I would of known that before I sighted it in for quiets and then had to re-sight again for standard, lol.

An approximation of the expected velocity is printed on every box of ammo.

[whiterussian1974]

An approximation of the expected velocity is printed on every box of ammo.

http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/ ... oadNo=0032
FEATURES & BENEFITS
•40 grain lead round nose at a sub-sonic 1070 ft/sec
•Same velocity as our premier match rimfire cartridges
•Clean-burning propellants keep actions cleaner
•Sure-fire CCI priming
•Reusable plastic box with dispenser lid

Velocity, ft/sec
Muzzle = 1070
50 yards = 977
75 yards = 940
100 yards = 908
(Doesn't state bbl, but 16" is usually the fastest for .22lr.)

[Philrozzi]

If your using CCI standard velocity I believe those are also subsonic.

Ok that explains it. I wish I would of known that before I sighted it in for quiets and then had to re-sight again for standard, lol.

An approximation of the expected velocity is printed on every box of ammo.

I just figured that every box of subsonic was labeled as such, either quiet or subsonic etc... since most shoppers dont know what fps a bullet goes supersonic.

[Capt. Link.]

I only use these for hunting but the RWS HP subsonics are very quiet without a suppressor.They work very well in rifle length barrels without going transonic.The bullets are heavily waxed w/ top accuracy and perfect bullet performance on small game.This is a premium loading that is very quiet suppressed.

Some of these subsonic loads will go transonic with a long barrel and the free-bore boost seen w/ many suppressors.You might try match grade as most are lower in speed than subsonic's.The pistol match grades are uber quiet in carbine length barrels.

[Philrozzi]

I only use these for hunting but the RWS HP subsonics are very quiet without a suppressor.They work very well in rifle length barrels without going transonic.The bullets are heavily waxed w/ top accuracy and perfect bullet performance on small game.This is a premium loading that is very quiet suppressed.

Some of these subsonic loads will go transonic with a long barrel and the free-bore boost seen w/ many suppressors.You might try match grade as most are lower in speed than subsonic's.The pistol match grades are uber quiet in carbine length barrels.

I might give them a try sometime when there's a free shipping promo going on online. My LFS mainly carries a ton of CCI but not too many other brands.

[curtistactical]

I only use these for hunting but the RWS HP subsonics are very quiet without a suppressor.They work very well in rifle length barrels without going transonic.The bullets are heavily waxed w/ top accuracy and perfect bullet performance on small game.This is a premium loading that is very quiet suppressed.

Some of these subsonic loads will go transonic with a long barrel and the free-bore boost seen w/ many suppressors.You might try match grade as most are lower in speed than subsonic's.The pistol match grades are uber quiet in carbine length barrels.

I have also had very good luck with the CCI Green Tag target ammo. I will have to try the RWS. I use Remington sub sonics when I am shooting a rifle, in a handgun bulk pack ammo usually stays sub sonic though so if I am just plinking with the pistols its usually cheap bulk pack.

[Philrozzi]

I only use these for hunting but the RWS HP subsonics are very quiet without a suppressor.They work very well in rifle length barrels without going transonic.The bullets are heavily waxed w/ top accuracy and perfect bullet performance on small game.This is a premium loading that is very quiet suppressed.

Some of these subsonic loads will go transonic with a long barrel and the free-bore boost seen w/ many suppressors.You might try match grade as most are lower in speed than subsonic's.The pistol match grades are uber quiet in carbine length barrels.

I have also had very good luck with the CCI Green Tag target ammo. I will have to try the RWS. I use Remington sub sonics when I am shooting a rifle, in a handgun bulk pack ammo usually stays sub sonic though so if I am just plinking with the pistols its usually cheap bulk pack.

Which cheap bulk pack do you use in your pistols? I've always used CCI standard in my 22/45 lite because some other brand I tried that was cheaper wouldn't cycle it correctly. The stuff that didn't work was called federal target or something like that.

[curtistactical]

Which cheap bulk pack do you use in your pistols? I've always used CCI standard in my 22/45 lite because some other brand I tried that was cheaper wouldn't cycle it correctly. The stuff that didn't work was called federal target or something like that.

I think the stuff I have been shooting is just Federal high velocity.

[rimshaker]

Ok that explains it. I wish I would of known that before I sighted it in for quiets and then had to re-sight again for standard, lol.

What can are you using?

Remember the standard SAAMI test barrel length for 22LR is 24". Yep not a typo, 24" lol.
So be wary of manufacturers dB performance numbers. They will be way lower than what you'll ever get out of today's standard 16-18" barrels for 22lr.

[doubloon]

...
Remember the standard SAAMI test barrel length for 22LR is 24". Yep not a typo, 24" lol.
So be wary of manufacturers dB performance numbers. They will be way lower than what you'll ever get out of today's standard 16-18" barrels for 22lr.

Yes, CCI uses different barrels and/or guns for its 22lr performance.

...
(Doesn't state bbl, but 16" is usually the fastest for .22lr.)

I've yet to see any 22lr ammo that won't clock faster out of an 18" barrel than a 16".

I read on the interwebs somewhere that 18" is the "optimum" barrel length. Like rim says, there are a lot of competition shooters out here using 22" or longer barrels.

[doubloon]

...
I just figured that every box of subsonic was labeled as such, either quiet or subsonic etc... since most shoppers dont know what fps a bullet goes supersonic.

Most suppressor owning shoppers I know are familiar with the speed of sound at sea level.

[Philrozzi]

Ok that explains it. I wish I would of known that before I sighted it in for quiets and then had to re-sight again for standard, lol.

What can are you using?

Remember the standard SAAMI test barrel length for 22LR is 24". Yep not a typo, 24" lol.
So be wary of manufacturers dB performance numbers. They will be way lower than what you'll ever get out of today's standard 16-18" barrels for 22lr.

Huntertown arms guardian on a Savage FVSR

[ick]

The presence of a sonic crack, and the significance of it sound can be attributed to:
1. The actual speed of sound at your specific temperature (and somewhat from air pressure/humidity/altitude).
2. Length of the barrel (a 3" pistol barrel results in lower velocity projectile compared to a 14" rifle barrel)
3. A range that tends to either magnify the sonic crack effect... or dampen it. (dense woods/buildings/walls magnifies vs. open field tends to dissipate crack)

You found no difference in your example. I found just the opposite was the case in one of my times at the range up here. Up here in the mountains, when the weather is cold (0º)... my subsonic has a supersonic crack. Might as well shoot HV. Additionally, there are leafless hardwoods and range walls that tend to reverberate and magnify any crack if there is one. It really makes the crack loud.

Conversely, when we have incredibly high heat my .22 HV doesn't have much of a sound. However, even on THOSE days my 5.56 at 3,000 fps still gives quite a crack.

What is your location/temperature/range environment?

Overwhelmingly it is temperature that controls the speed of sound and therefore the presence of the sonic "crack".

As a side note: It seems to me that humidity and air pressure do have an impact on what your ear hears... but that is another story I guess.

[Philrozzi]

The presence of a sonic crack, and the significance of it sound can be attributed to:
1. The actual speed of sound at your specific temperature (and somewhat from air pressure/humidity/altitude).
2. Length of the barrel (a 3" pistol barrel results in lower velocity projectile compared to a 14" rifle barrel)
3. A range that tends to either magnify the sonic crack effect... or dampen it. (dense woods/buildings/walls magnifies vs. open field tends to dissipate crack)

You found no difference in your example. I found just the opposite was the case in one of my times at the range up here. Up here in the mountains, when the weather is cold (0º)... my subsonic has a supersonic crack. Might as well shoot HV. Additionally, there are leafless hardwoods and range walls that tend to reverberate and magnify any crack if there is one. It really makes the crack loud.

Conversely, when we have incredibly high heat my .22 HV doesn't have much of a sound. However, even on THOSE days my 5.56 at 3,000 fps still gives quite a crack.

What is your location/temperature/range environment?

Overwhelmingly it is temperature that controls the speed of sound and therefore the presence of the sonic "crack".

As a side note: It seems to me that humidity and air pressure do have an impact on what your ear hears... but that is another story I guess.

I'm located in Ohio and when I went shooting yesterday it was approx. 50 degrees out, sunny with no wind.

The range is located in a valley so it's fully surrounded by hills and trees. I would say the range part of the valley where there are no trees is about 100yds wide and 300yds long. The whole valley is probably 1000yds but it's mostly just woods apart from the range where the farmer that lets people shoot there cleared the land out.

[hyrulejedi86]

OP where about in Ohio are you located? A valley and trees will echo some sound back at you too. I shoot behind my parents house into a valley with lots of trees and suppressed guns are louder there to the shooter than at my in-laws where it's a field.

[whiterussian1974]

As a side note: It seems to me that humidity and air pressure do have an impact on what your ear hears... but that is another story I guess.

I mentioned environmental effects on perceived sound in a thread and got all kinds of haters, then some support from those in Europe and Oceania.
Shooting through foam-lined tubes really cuts a great deal of initial blast.
I'd love a thread on the physiological/psychological influence upon hearing perception. But that's up to someone else for now.
IF I did, I guess it would go in the Hunting Folder?
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=105668#p883916

[Philrozzi]

OP where about in Ohio are you located? A valley and trees will echo some sound back at you too. I shoot behind my parents house into a valley with lots of trees and suppressed guns are louder there to the shooter than at my in-laws where it's a field.

I'm located right near Mansfield. I'll have to try it out in a field, I'd be very interested to compare perceived sound levels between the two locations.

[ick]

Talking about haters reminded me of something.

We had a thread on here about the sonic crack and the mechanics of sound. At some point this guy was asking "Why, when I shoot my 7.62 straight up in the air, I can hardly hear the sonic crack. Why is that?" He was asking why that is true, what are the physics of sound.

Everyone went a bit crazy and to paraphrase the consensus was... "you idiot, that is dangerous. Stop shooting up in the air immediately. Always use a backstop."

A cogent discussion ensued about the terminal velocity of a falling round, blah, blah, blah. and that likely nobody would ever be injured.

Then it came out that he was using a range in the suburbs, a semi-populated area.

Not cool. But hey, at least there wasn't a sonic crack!

[whiterussian1974]

Talking about haters reminded me of something.

We had a thread on here about the sonic crack and the mechanics of sound. At some point this guy was asking "Why, when I shoot my 7.62 straight up in the air, I can hardly hear the sonic crack. Why is that?" He was asking why that is true, what are the physics of sound.

Everyone went a bit crazy and to paraphrase the consensus was... "you idiot, that is dangerous. Stop shooting up in the air immediately. Always use a backstop."

When I was a CorrOfr in the '90s, it was SOP to fire a shot in the air if an Inmate got w/i 20' of the fence. Then shoot center chest once they touched the fence.

I always ?ed why we didn't just shoot into the ground outside the fence, since that was positive backstop and unpopulated section of the yard. I never had to discharge under those circumstances. Just carrying at port-arms and having a rep as "a little unbalanced" was enough to keep Inmates in Line. They were always worried that I'd snap and cause an "accident." So they were always on best behaviour when I was nearby.
-----
As to sonic crack: I've never noticed that. Conjecturing on the Physics, perhaps b/c of air thinning as altitude increases and the lack of reflective surfaces? Sonic crack is a Line Source, unlike Point Source of Blast. So w/o reflective surface, someone .5m behind the muzzle shouldn't notice b/c the blast would overwhelm the crack. (168dB vs. 138dB.) If suppressed they are roughly equal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_source