muzzle breaks, flash hiders, and deciding between the two..or three rather..

[jjwelly]

Hey all:

I'll try to keep this quick and easy, but I'm having a hard time deciding on what I should do for muzzle options on a few of my guns.

I have..
300 blackout, noveske 10.5", that currently has an AAC blackout FH. I pretty much run this with my 762-sdn-6 can, but sometimes I do like running it w/o. Currently I run two separate scopes on this one. For supersonic, i run a 1-4x Trijicon accupoint on a Larue QD mount. And for subsonic, I run an EOTECH w/ QD mount.

Have no issues with this one at all. Then I decided to build a MATEN in .308, which I'm still doing and is where my questions arise. This one has a 16" barrel. I plan to use it for hunting at times, as well as some range shooting. As far as can use, well, I guess it's hard for me to know at this point. I can see myself not wanting to add the weight of the can when I'm hunting.

I was thinking that maybe I'd through on a brakeout 2.0 onto this new build, but it seems that most tell me it's not very good and muzzle brake nor FH. I've seen one video of it, and the flames shooting out of it were noticeable, so it scared me some. I'm not a fan of loud, and don't want to piss people off next to me at the range. So I'm a little scared of running either the AAC muzzle brake or the brakeout w/o running it suppressed. Mainly because I don't have any experience with either of these types of devices. I do read about them being helpful to protect the can though, and with .308 pressures I was thinking that would help some.

Then when thinking about protecting the baffles, maybe I should buy a muzzle brake or brakeout and put it on the 300blk since it's a SBR, and since I run it mostly suppressed. Then I would through the blackout onto the .308. I know the 300blk does not have the pressures and maybe running that round on a SBR is not to worry about protecting the baffles, but it has me wondering.

So my question to all of you with more knowledge and experience than I, what muzzle device types would you run on each of these firearms?

I do have a buddy who has an AR10 that is going to meet me at the range next week to shoot, so I'll get a feel of what a .308 round recoil feels like with, what I expect is, a FH on his firearm. I'm not exactly sure what his setup is.

Thank you all for your time.

[quiettime]

I would definitely run a can while hunting. Just too many advantages outweigh the extra length and weight.

Muzzle brake somewhat helps the blast baffle live longer and would be a welcome addition should you choose to shoot your .308 unsuppressed

[ericlw]

well the only thing i can tell you is i wish i had never put a brake on any of my rifles. it makes they WAY to loud at the range without my suppressor.

[jjwelly]

I would definitely run a can while hunting. Just too many advantages outweigh the extra length and weight.

Muzzle brake somewhat helps the blast baffle live longer and would be a welcome addition should you choose to shoot your .308 unsuppressed

Ok that's good to know. Would you help me understand the benefits of using the suppressor while hunting? I think if I knew what the benefits were, it would help me decide what to do.

I understand that a brake helps with baffle protection, and from what I understand, work great while running suppressed. But shooting unsuppressed with a brake seems to be miserable. So putting on a brake would mean that firearm would be run suppressed 100% of the time. Not sure if that's an issue with me or not.

Thanks for the comments and help..

[jjwelly]

well the only thing i can tell you is i wish i had never put a brake on any of my rifles. it makes they WAY to loud at the range without my suppressor.

that's what I hear. If I put on a brake, whether on the 300blk or the .308, I have a feeling that will make it a 100% gun...

[whiterussian1974]

So my question to all of you with more knowledge and experience than I, what muzzle device types would you run on each of these firearms?

FHs are a trade off. They help quench the exhaust fire and allow a limited expansion instead of the MASSIVE blowback that some MBs have. But they don't minimize recoil much.

Have you thought about the Aries?
It is like a Combo. Reduces recoil and blast, plus controls Concussion.
http://blog.predatorbdu.com/2014/10/new ... brake.html
viewtopic.php?t=130302

or http://deadairsilencers.com/product/pyr ... zle-brake/

[rimshaker]

300 BLK doesn't need a brake IMO, no matter what barrel length. Mainly because the recoil is mild. And its muzzle pressures are low enough not to worry about baffle protection much.

A supersonic BLK round in a 9" barrel has roughly the same muzzle pressure as 556 in a 16" barrel. Someone ran the numbers through QuickLOAD a while back.

Now 308 pressures and recoil are a different story, especially in a 16" barrel. That's pretty short considering standard 308 barrels are like 20"+.
Even if the recoil is still mild for you, the baffles are definitely gonna take a beating over time. Using a brake in this instance might be a good thing.

[jjwelly]

300 BLK doesn't need a brake IMO, no matter what barrel length. Mainly because the recoil is mild. And its muzzle pressures are low enough not to worry about baffle protection much.

A supersonic BLK round in a 9" barrel has roughly the same muzzle pressure as 556 in a 16" barrel. Someone ran the numbers through QuickLOAD a while back.

Now 308 pressures and recoil are a different story, especially in a 16" barrel. That's pretty short considering standard 308 barrels are like 20"+.
Even if the recoil is still mild for you, the baffles are definitely gonna take a beating over time. Using a brake in this instance might be a good thing.

Thanks. That's pretty much what I was thinking. So I'll leave my 300blk alone and leave the FH on there.

Now as for the .308, well, I guess I'm not sure yet. I may just try the brakeout 2.0, and hope that it's tolerable to shoot w/o the suppressor. Then when shooting with suppressor, I have the comfort of it being protected some, better than the FH, not as much as the full brake.

I am really wanting to know the advantages of using a suppressor when hunting. I can't think of when you would want to hunt suppressed, other than not 'disturbing' neighbors...

[rimshaker]

I am really wanting to know the advantages of using a suppressor when hunting. I can't think of when you would want to hunt suppressed, other than not 'disturbing' neighbors...

That's easy. For your own ears and comfort of course

[quiettime]

Same benefits as when not hunting, less recoil, less noise. Doesn't disturb the animal if you're shooting subs, and sometimes they just stand right there and die peacefully.

Supers they don't know which way to run and sometimes run toward you instead of away.

And why wouldn't you want not to disturb the people around you?

[jjwelly]

Same benefits as when not hunting, less recoil, less noise. Doesn't disturb the animal if you're shooting subs, and sometimes they just stand right there and die peacefully.

Supers they don't know which way to run and sometimes run toward you instead of away.

And why wouldn't you want not to disturb the people around you?

ok understood. I won't be shooting subs out of the .308 thats for sure. But that's helpful.

As far as disturbing people around, me, I meant that it's a benefit to shooting suppressed so I'm not disturbing the neighbors. Varmint control at the house at night! But I wouldn't be using the .308 for that purpose. The 300blk with subs works for this. For hunting with the .308, for example deer, well I guess I was thinking that 1 shot taken wouldn't matter much whether it's suppressed or not, since I would be out in the middle of nowhere deep in the woods.

This is all really helpful info you all are giving me. Great examples to use the can when hunting. I'm really trying to grasp how I'll end up using the gun/can, so I can make a real decision on the brake vs. FH. If the can is worth carrying in the field, and using a brake w/o can at the range is miserable for you and those next to you, am I safe to think that those of you with brakes just use the can 100% of time? For the 300blk, I pretty much already do. But my initial thinking was I wouldn't be doing that with the .308.

[jjwelly]

300 BLK doesn't need a brake IMO, no matter what barrel length. Mainly because the recoil is mild. And its muzzle pressures are low enough not to worry about baffle protection much.

A supersonic BLK round in a 9" barrel has roughly the same muzzle pressure as 556 in a 16" barrel. Someone ran the numbers through QuickLOAD a while back.

Now 308 pressures and recoil are a different story, especially in a 16" barrel. That's pretty short considering standard 308 barrels are like 20"+.
Even if the recoil is still mild for you, the baffles are definitely gonna take a beating over time. Using a brake in this instance might be a good thing.

Also I am still considering changing out the 16" barrel for a 18" barrel, but I don't think it will make too much of a difference in this decision. I know the .308 pressures are high, and the baffles will see much faster wear than from the 300blk, which is the only reason I'm considering a brake or brakeout.

Again I thank everyone's input and time helping to clarify things and give input. Now I know my 300 is setup fine, and just have to focus on the .308..

[quiettime]

I think 18" is a better choice for .308...

Once you start shooting suppressed, it's hard to make a case for unsuppressed

[whiterussian1974]

I think 18" is a better choice for .308...

Once you start shooting suppressed, it's hard to make a case for unsuppressed

.308 is great 18-24". Just tailor the powder to the bbl. 22-24" is more common for bolt-action, 18" for semi.
---
Definitely. Even if it's just a 18dB Moderator. I really don't know why anyone would CHOOSE to shoot w/o. It's nearly sadistic to force Citizens to suffer the blast and hearing/sight injuries that un- causes. Studies show that a can is superior to glasses and earplugs.

And what is wrong w the belt and suspenders approach? I use it whenever I can. A multi-tiered approach featuring redundancy and added safety.
---
I don't understand why Militaries don't have at least a 12dB 4-baffle can on many Infantry rifles. It would enhance squad communication and relieve the tinnitus and other Health risks that Soldiers often face. And the weight and maintenance are comparable to the flashhider. Just a bit more. They could even vent the last chamber w side slits to act as a muzzle brake. Though that would lessen sound performance.

[whiterussian1974]

Also I am still considering changing out the 16" barrel for a 18" barrel, but I don't think it will make too much of a difference in this decision.

You could even port your bbl 2" behind the 18" muzzle. This could dump pressure into a "sump" in a reflex chamber behind the can.

Even when shooting wo a can, you could use a muzzle shroud to direct the porting gases forward to protect yourself and others from the blast. Similar to the Ferfrans' "concussion reduction system."
http://www.armsunlimited.com/FERFRANS-M ... mb-crd.htm

[jjwelly]

Great comments here that help me think about things I wouldn't have even thought to consider. Honestly I really didn't think it would be advantageous to use a can for hunting. Typically I'm trying to cut weight wherever I can, and if I am lucky enough to shoot, it's 1 shot and over. So I didn't think sound was that big of a benefit (other than protecting my own ears!) of using the can. The negatives are added weight, and longer barrel which definitely causes problems at times. Tree branches and everything else seems to get in the way, so the shorter the better for me. Also an added benefit of shooting w/o the can, say at the public range, is not putting wear on the can. I don't see a whole lot of point of shooting with it if right next to me people are blasting away. I'd have to have super ear protection on anyways from their blasting.

However, after reading some replies, I'm trying to rethink through this and consider the benefits of hunting with the can, as well as using it elsewhere.

One thing that seems to be true is the harshness that exists with muzzle breaks w/o suppressors, whether 16 or 18 barrels. Other thing that is also on my mind is that using a 16 or 18 barrel with a FH w/ the can is somewhat disturbing as the baffles will be taking a beating. I may call AAC to get their take on exactly how much I should be worried about this.

So I'm sort of stuck. FH is best to shoot w/o can, but w/ can it can hurt the baffles. And breaks may be unbearable to shoot w/o can, causing the firearm to be suppressed use only, which maybe is not a bad thing. I may just have to buy a muzzle brake and try it out just for my education and experience.

I know most seem to think the 18 length is the 'best' compromise for general use for semi .308. But from what I've read, there's virtually no difference b/w 16 and 18, at least out to 600-700, which is way past my expected distances. Plus if I'm thinking of adding a can part/full time, that is adding both weight and length which are both things I'm trying to cut. Still have a little time to decide, as I haven't mounted the barrel yet and can still return/exchange it. Both have the mid length gas, so no advantage there.

I sure like that muzzle shroud device. I see that AAC has a device called the blastout, which looks like it does this very thing! Ahh, maybe that's the ticket for use w/o can!

[ChinStrap40]

I would go with flash hiders.

You say the main benefit of the muzzle brake is to protect the blast baffle, but the more we are learning about suppressors, that seems to be a non-issue. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is what I have gathered from all of the recent discussions.

[rimshaker]

If the can has Stellite baffles, or at least the first one, I wouldn't worry as much trying to protect them using a brake.

[jjwelly]

Ok good to know. I was planning on calling AAC so I'll bring up those points and see what they say about protecting the baffles with a brake.

As it stands right now, the only reason for a brake is for baffle protection. I haven't shot .308 yet, but will do so tomorrow with a friend who has one. We'll see if recoil is an issue..

[jjwelly]

Ok, off the phone with AAC. With the 762sdn6 can, you can safely (as far as baffles go) utilize a FH with a barrel at least as long as...

300blk - 7.5 inches or more
556 - 10 inches or more
308 - 14.5 inches or more

they have a lifetime warranty regardless, assuming you are using them as intended.

So from what they say, if I'm shooting 308 with a 16" barrel, I shouldn't be concerned with baffle protection, and that shouldn't be a part of my decision when choosing a FH or brake..

Still interested in the brake, and good to know that if I do go that route, I could get a blastout for public range use.