Is there a guide to how to submit a form 1 after July 13th yet?

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Roadblock
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Is there a guide to how to submit a form 1 after July 13th yet?

Post by Roadblock »

Has anyone put together a guide for those of us who are going submit future form 1's? Talking after July 13th.

I planning to doing a homemade titanium can and a PAP M92 AK later this month, I'd like to start getting my ducks in a row now.

I keep hearing about finger prints, photo and a background check. Who does the background check? Can I take my own picture? Can I take my own finger prints?
Roadblock
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Re: Is there a guide to how to submit a form 1 after July 13th yet?

Post by Roadblock »

Going to add another question to this post.

Is it true that 41p only affects Trusts? From everything I'm reading with 41P you will need to add the following with your NFA submission:

1. Photo
2. Finger print cards
3. Questioner of responsibility

And I also heard "back ground check" but I'm confused is this is something you the submitter has to provide with the NFA forms or if they the ATF does the background check on you.

As for the finger photo and finger prints, those of you who have filed in the past as an individual, how did you get your photo and finger prints taken? Did you do them yourself or did your local Sheriffs or Police department have to do them?

I have a trust that I setup pre-41p with the intent of submitting a couple form 1's prior to July 13th but unfortunately, due to money I haven't gotten them submitted yet. I will be able to do them the end of the month so at this point, is it even worthwhile to mess with my trust?

I have a successor trustee that I will have to remove as she does NOT want to waste the time getting finger printed and photo'ed when she has no interest in the items in the trust other than to be someone who gets them if I die. She said, let the cops throw them out for all I care! :D

Right now I guess I'm not worried about any other trustees anyway so maybe the trust route isn't worthwhile for me.

*Edit*

Just read instructions on how to file as an individual and I see nothing about getting a "background check" as one of the steps to be completely by the submitter.

Still looking for input on everything over all.
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AlabamaPaul
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Re: Is there a guide to how to submit a form 1 after July 13th yet?

Post by AlabamaPaul »

Roadblock wrote:Going to add another question to this post.

Is it true that 41p only affects Trusts? From everything I'm reading with 41P you will need to add the following with your NFA submission:

1. Photo
2. Finger print cards
3. Questioner of responsibility

And I also heard "back ground check" but I'm confused is this is something you the submitter has to provide with the NFA forms or if they the ATF does the background check on you.The background check is completed by the FBI. It's why fingerprint cards are required.

As for the finger photo and finger prints, those of you who have filed in the past as an individual, how did you get your photo and finger prints taken? Did you do them yourself or did your local Sheriffs or Police department have to do them? I take my own photos, and anyone can do the fingerprint cards.

I have a trust that I setup pre-41p with the intent of submitting a couple form 1's prior to July 13th but unfortunately, due to money I haven't gotten them submitted yet. I will be able to do them the end of the month so at this point, is it even worthwhile to mess with my trust? A strictly personal decision.

I have a successor trustee that I will have to remove as she does NOT want to waste the time getting finger printed and photo'ed when she has no interest in the items in the trust other than to be someone who gets them if I die. She said, let the cops throw them out for all I care! :D If she is only a successor trustee and not a co-trustee, she is not a responsible person and does not have to submit the 5320.23.

Right now I guess I'm not worried about any other trustees anyway so maybe the trust route isn't worthwhile for me.

*Edit*

Just read instructions on how to file as an individual and I see nothing about getting a "background check" as one of the steps to be completely by the submitter.

Still looking for input on everything over all.
rimshaker
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Re: Is there a guide to how to submit a form 1 after July 13th yet?

Post by rimshaker »

https://www.guntrustlawyer.com/2016/07/atf-faq-41f.html

I bet PD's all over the country can't wait to be flooded with the paperwork.
tf2addict
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Re: Is there a guide to how to submit a form 1 after July 13th yet?

Post by tf2addict »

from https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/doc ... f/download

Q. How will the NFA Branch process ATF Forms 1, 4, and 5 once this proposal is implemented?

A. The NFA Branch will now be required to perform full criminal background checks on all individuals
who are identified as Responsible Persons of a trust or legal entity (e.g. corporation, LLC, etc.).


It will be interesting to see what happens with wait times now. On the one hand there may be fewer applications for awhile but on the other hand the time per application will probably increase due to all the new paperwork and processes.
tf2addict
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Re: Is there a guide to how to submit a form 1 after July 13th yet?

Post by tf2addict »

rimshaker wrote:https://www.guntrustlawyer.com/2016/07/atf-faq-41f.html

I bet PD's all over the country can't wait to be flooded with the paperwork.
No action is required on their part other than just filing the notification away. Still that is a new burden.

I'm concerned from my end as to how I can prove I sent notification if ATF ever comes knocking. Better at least send it registered mail. I don't think the PD is even required to provide acknowledgement that they received it. I would hope most will.
rimshaker
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Re: Is there a guide to how to submit a form 1 after July 13th yet?

Post by rimshaker »

tf2addict wrote:I'm concerned from my end as to how I can prove I sent notification if ATF ever comes knocking. Better at least send it registered mail. I don't think the PD is even required to provide acknowledgement that they received it. I would hope most will.
It's the same thing for getting a C&R FFL. You simply mail the local CLEO a copy of the application for notification purposes. They never acknowledge receipt. Seems more like an honor system.
Roadblock
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Re: Is there a guide to how to submit a form 1 after July 13th yet?

Post by Roadblock »

AlabamaPaul wrote:
Roadblock wrote: As for the finger photo and finger prints, those of you who have filed in the past as an individual, how did you get your photo and finger prints taken? Did you do them yourself or did your local Sheriffs or Police department have to do them? I take my own photos, and anyone can do the fingerprint cards.
.
I finally got to look at one of the ATF supplied finger print cards and they clearly say they must be completely by an authority such as a police department and there is a box they have to put their LEO certification in. Looks like you can go to any PD though. I called my local Sheriffs, they want $15.00 per card, called my PD and they want $35.00 per card.
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T-Rex
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Re: Is there a guide to how to submit a form 1 after July 13th yet?

Post by T-Rex »

Roadblock wrote: I finally got to look at one of the ATF supplied finger print cards and they clearly say they must be completely by an authority such as a police department and there is a box they have to put their LEO certification in. Looks like you can go to any PD though. I called my local Sheriffs, they want $15.00 per card, called my PD and they want $35.00 per card.
The cards are FBI FD-258 and they do not say anywhere on them that they must be completed by a law enforcement officer.
41F states multiple times that fingerprints can be completed by anyone "properly equipped", not: properly trained, authorized or certified.

You can do a search for the FBI handbook on their fingerprint cards. The FD-258 is the "Civil Fingerprint Card" and has a documented procedure for completing.
If you order you're fingerprint cards directly from the ATF, they'll have the ATF ORI # on them.

Many, many people, including myself, have been rolling their own prints for years. I've never had a Form 1 or 4 come back because there wasn't an officer's signature.
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cyclone72
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Re: Is there a guide to how to submit a form 1 after July 13th yet?

Post by cyclone72 »

rimshaker wrote:
tf2addict wrote:I'm concerned from my end as to how I can prove I sent notification if ATF ever comes knocking. Better at least send it registered mail. I don't think the PD is even required to provide acknowledgement that they received it. I would hope most will.
It's the same thing for getting a C&R FFL. You simply mail the local CLEO a copy of the application for notification purposes. They never acknowledge receipt. Seems more like an honor system.
Not to get too off topic but how do you go about getting a C & R license?
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T-Rex
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Re: Is there a guide to how to submit a form 1 after July 13th yet?

Post by T-Rex »

Completed Builds www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79895
Burst Calculator www.engineersedge.com/calculators/pipe_bust_calc.htm
Silencer Porn www.instagram.com/explore/tags/silencerporn/
cyclone72
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Re: Is there a guide to how to submit a form 1 after July 13th yet?

Post by cyclone72 »

thanks!
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