RECOIL Reduction WHEN Suppressed

[JarHeadTim]

Hey All...

First post on this forum. Have finally decided to fall on the sword and put a suppressor in jail. I have a somewhat unique requirement / handicap and would appreciate your insight narrowing down the candidates. I am looking for:

1. 7.62 QD can for multi caliber / multi weapon use.

2. Prefer Modular construction so a 5.56 end cap / muzzle brake can be swapped out for 5.56 use

3. Prefer Ti construction, full auto rated not mandatory.

4. I have a surgically repaired recoil / butt stock shoulder that is now very recoil intolerant. I need a Can that has attachment device with a functioning muzzle brake for it's non-suppressed weapon use AND A CAN THAT HAS RECOIL REDUCTION WHEN IN USE.

I found the Silencerco Omega. Have read that the Anchor Brake reduces 308 Win recoil to that of a .243 which is acceptable.

Are there any other viable options than Silencerco...?

S/F

[Chorizo]

Gemtech One. You can get a bi-lock muzzle brake mount for it from Gemtech. Also the Silencerco Hybrid has a ASR mount for it.

S/F

[Fulmen]

Any decent can will reduce recoil, adding a front brake will probably not make much difference.

[JarHeadTim]

That is what I want to know. Again, I have looked at the Omega, which has an external brake and have read that the brake works pretty well. I looked at the Gemtech One as recommended by Chorizo but I don't see that it has an external brake available... Has anyone shot the YHM Nitro? Would like to know how it fairs...?

S/F

[Chorizo]

It doesn't have an external muzzle brake, rather an internal. A silencer will reduce recoil by approximately 25% as recoil is about 1/3 provided by gas expansion out the front and the silencers job is to moderate that blast.

An internal muzzle brake helps because it redirects the gas expulsion internally to reduce recoil...just not quite as effectively as when it is vented directly to the outside air.

[thecameraman79]

I have an omega but haven't shot it on my 308 rifle yet just my 300 BLK with subsonic rounds so I can't speak to recoil reduction on a 308. I have however just recently picked up a 50 BMG suppressor with a break on the end of it that is removable. I've only shot with the break on but I can definitely attest to a larger recoil impulse (even with 5 extra pounds of the suppressor being on the rifle) vs shooting the gun with just the break on it (no suppressor). Although exaggerated by the larger round I'm sure you'll find the same with the 308. I do believe the break on the end of the can does help reduce it some but not as much as shooting it with just the break.

Here are comparison videos shooting it suppressed and unsuppressed. Definitely more recoil can be seen with the can on the end...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVh-ijS4AxY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fezKgSz7Uc

[JarHeadTim]

I have an omega but haven't shot it on my 308 rifle yet just my 300 BLK with subsonic rounds so I can't speak to recoil reduction on a 308. I have however just recently picked up a 50 BMG suppressor with a break on the end of it that is removable. I've only shot with the break on but I can definitely attest to a larger recoil impulse (even with 5 extra pounds of the suppressor being on the rifle) vs shooting the gun with just the break on it (no suppressor). Although exaggerated by the larger round I'm sure you'll find the same with the 308. I do believe the break on the end of the can does help reduce it some but not as much as shooting it with just the break.

Here are comparison videos shooting it suppressed and unsuppressed. Definitely more recoil can be seen with the can on the end...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVh-ijS4AxY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fezKgSz7Uc

PLEASE GIVE ME FEEDBACK WHEN YOU SHOOT THE OMEGA ON THE .308...

Thanx,

[thecameraman79]

I have zero plans to shoot it on the 308. I have a AAC 51T brake rockset on the barrel and use my 762-SDN-6 on that rifle. Truth about guns has done some muzzle brake testing and did there test with one suppressor. Now it didn't have the break on the end of the suppressor but I highly doubt that it is as effective as a bare brake.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/0 ... rake-test/

I have an omega but haven't shot it on my 308 rifle yet just my 300 BLK with subsonic rounds so I can't speak to recoil reduction on a 308. I have however just recently picked up a 50 BMG suppressor with a break on the end of it that is removable. I've only shot with the break on but I can definitely attest to a larger recoil impulse (even with 5 extra pounds of the suppressor being on the rifle) vs shooting the gun with just the break on it (no suppressor). Although exaggerated by the larger round I'm sure you'll find the same with the 308. I do believe the break on the end of the can does help reduce it some but not as much as shooting it with just the break.

Here are comparison videos shooting it suppressed and unsuppressed. Definitely more recoil can be seen with the can on the end...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVh-ijS4AxY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fezKgSz7Uc

PLEASE GIVE ME FEEDBACK WHEN YOU SHOOT THE OMEGA ON THE .308...

Thanx,

[Grounded]

We actually measured the reduction to be pretty substantial from shooting unsuppressed with no muzzle device to adding a can. Let me see if I can't find the numbers in my computer and post them later.

[JarHeadTim]

We actually measured the reduction to be pretty substantial from shooting unsuppressed with no muzzle device to adding a can. Let me see if I can't find the numbers in my computer and post them later.

10-4 that would be awesome

[thecameraman79]

The muzzle brake test I sent you shows with a bare muzzle comparison vs the suppressor vs the brakes. The suppressor indeed reduced recoil over a bare muzzle but had the least amount of recoil reduction compared to all but one of the breaks. View the graphs in the link. It's worth the 2 minutes...

http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-s ... chart4.jpg

We actually measured the reduction to be pretty substantial from shooting unsuppressed with no muzzle device to adding a can. Let me see if I can't find the numbers in my computer and post them later.

[JarHeadTim]

I have seen all the series of muzzle brake tests that PRB and Truth About Guns have done, great stuff... Again, I use JEC Brakes on my rifles and they are amazing, virtually no recoil or muzzle rise.


I AM BY NO MEANS A SUPPRESSOR EXPERT but I struggle to understand how a muzzle attachment when encased by a suppressor can have any effect on recoil. A muzzle brake is in essence a reverse thrust device that redirects gas to cancel rearward movement of the rifle. How can a device that is encased, and can't move air outside the can have any effect on recoil (other than the psychological effect of if it isn't loud it isn't as violent)...?

Not arguing, just trying to understand.

[fishman]

I have seen all the series of muzzle brake tests that PRB and Truth About Guns have done, great stuff... Again, I use JEC Brakes on my rifles and they are amazing, virtually no recoil or muzzle rise.


I AM BY NO MEANS A SUPPRESSOR EXPERT but I struggle to understand how a muzzle attachment when encased by a suppressor can have any effect on recoil. A muzzle brake is in essence a reverse thrust device that redirects gas to cancel rearward movement of the rifle. How can a device that is encased, and can't move air outside the can have any effect on recoil (other than the psychological effect of if it isn't loud it isn't as violent)...?

Not arguing, just trying to understand.

I'm pretty sure the brake inside the can doesn't help recoil compared to a direct thread can.

[JeffWard]

The Omega is perfect for your needs... I own one, and I have a SECOND on order.

I shoot my current Omega on both my AR-10 308, and my Howa bolt 308. The recoil reduction is DEFINITELY noticeable. And the "note"/suppression is great.

The other great advantage to the Omega, is that is comes WITH a muzzle brake included in the price. I run mine direct threaded onto my 300BLK with the flat end-cap shooting subs, but I use the brake mount and the brake end-cap on the 308s! Shooting .223 I normally run it with the QD mount, but the flat cap.

JeffWard

[Fulmen]

A muzzle brake is in essence a reverse thrust device that redirects gas to cancel rearward movement of the rifle.

Not quite. Yes, the most effective brakes strive to send gas backwards, but all you need to reduce recoil is to reduce the forward velocity of the gas. And this is exactly what a silencer does.

I'm not sure if an internal brake will provide extra recoil reduction, but they do work well for suppression. Especially on lightweight aluminum designs. It acts as a strong blast chamber fixed directly to the muzzle, reducing the load on the silencer tube. Here's my can: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=96087

[T-Rex]

Everything I've read tends to prove that FHs and MBs lend little to nothing to aid in suppression, when compared to a DT mount. There's, also, no recoil reduction benefits from using a MB inside a can.

FHs and MBs are used to facilitate QD mount systems, give cross-platform usability, and act as a sacrificial surface when used on short bbls and FA firearms. Being that they are not silencer parts and offered in different configurations, a user could effectively use 1 can across multiple hosts, while having the ability to replace it once worn out.

This is most likely the reasoning for suppressors, like the Omega and Nitro, to offer MBs built into the endcap.

[JarHeadTim]

The Omega is perfect for your needs... I own one, and I have a SECOND on order.

I shoot my current Omega on both my AR-10 308, and my Howa bolt 308. The recoil reduction is DEFINITELY noticeable. And the "note"/suppression is great.

The other great advantage to the Omega, is that is comes WITH a muzzle brake included in the price. I run mine direct threaded onto my 300BLK with the flat end-cap shooting subs, but I use the brake mount and the brake end-cap on the 308s! Shooting .223 I normally run it with the QD mount, but the flat cap.

JeffWard

Jeff, Thank you... What I was looking for... Merry CHristmas

[Chorizo]

Everything I've read tends to prove that ......... There's, also, no recoil reduction benefits from using a MB inside a can..

Sources and links to what you have been reading please.

[T-Rex]

Sources and links to what you have been reading please.

You're asking for years of culminated information and in link form.
I have read things that were not on the internet.

I don't think a bit of legwork is too much to suggest.

[Capt. Link.]

Sources and links to what you have been reading please.

You're asking for years of culminated information and in link form.
I have read things that were not on the internet.

I don't think a bit of legwork is too much to suggest.

A muzzle brake inside a suppressor has Zero effect on recoil reduction.Physics 101
-CL

[fishman]

Sources and links to what you have been reading please.

You're asking for years of culminated information and in link form.
I have read things that were not on the internet.

I don't think a bit of legwork is too much to suggest.

A muzzle brake inside a suppressor has Zero effect on recoil reduction.Physics 101
-CL

+1

[T-Rex]

-CL

+1

You 2 made it too easy, no fun

[Fulmen]

A muzzle brake inside a suppressor has Zero effect on recoil reduction.Physics 101

Assuming the same level of suppression, sure.

[JeffWard]

Everything I've read tends to prove that FHs and MBs lend little to nothing to aid in suppression, when compared to a DT mount. There's, also, no recoil reduction benefits from using a MB inside a can.

FHs and MBs are used to facilitate QD mount systems, give cross-platform usability, and act as a sacrificial surface when used on short bbls and FA firearms. Being that they are not silencer parts and offered in different configurations, a user could effectively use 1 can across multiple hosts, while having the ability to replace it once worn out.

This is most likely the reasoning for suppressors, like the Omega and Nitro, to offer MBs built into the endcap.

I've fired both my 16" 308 bolt gun, and 16" 308 AR-10 with the Omega Brake end-cap, and with the flat end-cap. Without the end-cap, the cross-hair jumps up and right. With the brake end-cap installed, the cross-hair jump is MUCH less.

My experience.

[T-Rex]

My experience.

Jeff, your experience is greatly appreciated. However, I was referring to those items being used solely within the can's interior. I would expect some benefit from the feature you spoke of. I plan to try and incorporate these facets into some of my future projects.