"Hollywood Quiet" .22 host - barrel length questions...

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silvor
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"Hollywood Quiet" .22 host - barrel length questions...

Post by silvor » Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:56 pm

I am looking to have a bolt gun that is the quietest it can possibly be with (hopefully) CCI Standard Velocity or similar. Would I need to lengthen or shorten my 16" barrel to achieve the quietest possible host? I'm willing to SBR if necessary. Using CCI Quiets in the bolt gun is SUPER quiet, however I'd like to have a bit more punch.

Before I got my suppressor, I was under the impression that the shortest barrel would make the least amount of noise because all ammo would be subsonic out of the short barrel. But, it seems the longer barrels are quieter - at least with ammo below 1100 fps. (Because the gas has more time to dissipate?). I thought the suppression was all about bullet speed?

I have a Spectre II and been using several hosts as follows. They are listed in order from quietest to loudest.

16" bolt gun (definitely the quietest by far)
16" S&W M&P
Browning Buckmark with 4" barrel
Ruger Charger (6" barrel)

So, do I get a new longer barrel, or shorten it?

I've taken a lot of dB ratings (I have a background in sound recording) and everything above is at 90dB or lower at 6' away from the host.

What do you guys think?

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Todd Is
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Re: "Hollywood Quiet" .22 host - barrel length questions...

Post by Todd Is » Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:18 pm

Integral bolt action 22 is most likely the closest thing to hollywood quiet there is. And depending how loud you set your volume on the t.v., it may very well be quieter than hollywood quiet.

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Re: "Hollywood Quiet" .22 host - barrel length questions...

Post by BlogSarge » Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:11 pm

Welcome to the forum Silvor!

Bullet speed is half the equation.

A gun going off can have two sounds; the sound of the hot expanding gases hitting the atmosphere (the bang) and the sound of the bullet as it breaks the sound barrier (the sonic boom).

Subsonic bullets do away with the latter while a good suppressor does away as much as it can with the former. The suppressor allows the gases to expand and dissipate in it and then, when the gases get to the atmosphere it is much less noticeable. That might also explain why a longer barrel is often quieter.

I'd sure love to find an integral 16" overall barrel for my Savage FV-SR. Anyone know of one?

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Re: "Hollywood Quiet" .22 host - barrel length questions...

Post by Hasdrubal » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:01 pm

Since you're intentionally starting with subsonic ammo, the shorter barrel by itself will not help. If you were starting with something supersonic, then the point of the short barrel would be to prevent the bullet from reaching supersonic speed.

The reason your bolt action is more quiet than the M&P is that there is no means for the gas to escape without passing through the silencer baffles, uncontrolled. That is also related to the reason the M&P is more quiet than the pistols. While all three guns have a portion of the gas escaping from the chamber end when the bolt cycles, on the rifle, the gas has expanded into the additional volume of the longer bore first. That might not seem like a lot of volume, but it's also not a lot of gas.

Check out this link, it shows that .22lr does not gain a tremendous amount of velocity going from pistol to rifle length barrels, which implies that most of the powder is burned in a very short length of barrel.
http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/22.html

Also look at this one, .223 muzzle pressure vs barrel length. The lower the pressure, the less sound you will get from escaping gas, whether passing through a baffle stack, bleeding off around a piston, or around a casing as it is extracted from the chamber.

Short answer, you will probably have the best results keeping your 16" barrel and just running the CCI standard velocity. I use it in a Charger takedown with a 10" homebuild monocore on it, and I don't hear much beyond the bolt clacking and the bullet hitting the target.

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Re: "Hollywood Quiet" .22 host - barrel length questions...

Post by doubloon » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:04 pm

Liberty metered a rig a while back that hit 109 or thereabouts ... nothing closer to a pellet rifle that i can recall
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Re: "Hollywood Quiet" .22 host - barrel length questions...

Post by doubloon » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:10 pm

BlogSarge wrote:...
I'd sure love to find an integral 16" overall barrel for my Savage FV-SR. Anyone know of one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT_SY8EcI3o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDtd2jNIwAU MUSAFAR!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI This is Water DavidW
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Re: "Hollywood Quiet" .22 host - barrel length questions...

Post by doubloon » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:12 pm

Hasdrubal wrote:...
The reason your bolt action is more quiet than the M&P is that there is no means for the gas to escape without passing through the silencer baffles, uncontrolled. ...
when i hold the bolt closed on my 10/22 it's as quiet as my bolt gun

otherwise the action is louder than the shot
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Re: "Hollywood Quiet" .22 host - barrel length questions...

Post by BlogSarge » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:45 am

doubloon wrote:
BlogSarge wrote:...
I'd sure love to find an integral 16" overall barrel for my Savage FV-SR. Anyone know of one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT_SY8EcI3o

Thanks. But damn, there goes another thousand bucks... :lol:

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Re: "Hollywood Quiet" .22 host - barrel length questions...

Post by jreinke » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:58 am

My quietest gun is my SBRed TC Contender with a 22 LR barrel cut down to 5.5". With my Spectre II and shooting Aguila Super Kilobri's it's beyond Hollywood Quiet and into the realm of Mouse Fart Quiet! :wink:
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Re: "Hollywood Quiet" .22 host - barrel length questions...

Post by silvor » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:22 am

jreinke wrote:My quietest gun is my SBRed TC Contender with a 22 LR barrel cut down to 5.5". With my Spectre II and shooting Aguila Super Kilobri's it's beyond Hollywood Quiet and into the realm of Mouse Fart Quiet! :wink:
Any videos?

How does it sound with bulk ammo?

I thought about doing something like you did, but wanted to use something similar to CCI Standard. I use Super Colbri's in my 24" Marlin bolt without a suppressor and there is zero report. My Savage and Spectre and CCI Quiets is quieter yet.

What part of WI are you from? I'm from SE MN.
Hasdrubal wrote:Since you're intentionally starting with subsonic ammo, the shorter barrel by itself will not help. If you were starting with something supersonic, then the point of the short barrel would be to prevent the bullet from reaching supersonic speed.
I get what your saying, but here's what I don't get...

CCI Standard still is quieter out of my Buckmark or any other suppressed barrel than bulk ammo. There's still somewhat of a crack, but it's downrange, or it seems to be. Definitely not the thump of the target. So am I hearing the extra gas pressure?

But I thought...and now I am realizing I am likely wrong, a short barrel bolt gun with bulk or even CCI standard, would get me "Hollywood quiet".

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Re: "Hollywood Quiet" .22 host - barrel length questions...

Post by doubloon » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:08 pm

silvor wrote:...
But I thought...and now I am realizing I am likely wrong, a short barrel bolt gun with bulk or even CCI standard, would get me "Hollywood quiet".
viewtopic.php?p=919025#p919025
doubloon wrote:...
Suppression dB ratings

153-190 -- if I were you I'd sell that KelTec RFB
147-152 -- unless that's a 50BMG you got ripped off
141-146 -- are you sure those rounds are subsonic?
135-140 -- you didn't spend enough
129-134 -- loud
123-128 -- quiet
117-122 -- stupid quiet
111-116 -- giggly quiet
105-110 -- mouse fart quiet
100-104 -- is that an air gun or did you forget to load it?
000-099 -- Hollywood
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI This is Water DavidW
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Re: "Hollywood Quiet" .22 host - barrel length questions...

Post by John A. » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:45 pm

Supersonic speed is ~ 1116 fps where I am. Depending on atmospheric stuff. So, long as I keep the velocity around 1090 or less is ideal for me.

Any match ammo, and all subsonic ammo, and even some standard velocity works well from a 16 inch barrel.

This also allows full powder burn, and less first round pop, which isn't really a huge thing with rimfire cal's unless you are using a really short barrel where there would be a lot of muzzle flash if you didn't have a silencer attached.

The muzzle flash is where you get most of first round pop, combined with a large expansion chamber that holds a lot of oxygen.

So, there's a few different things going on there.
I don't care what your chart says

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Re: "Hollywood Quiet" .22 host - barrel length questions...

Post by doubloon » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:28 pm

John A. wrote:Supersonic speed is ~ 1116 fps where I am. Depending on atmospheric stuff. So, long as I keep the velocity around 1090 or less is ideal for me.

Any match ammo, and all subsonic ammo, and even some standard velocity works well from a 16 inch barrel.

This also allows full powder burn, and less first round pop, which isn't really a huge thing with rimfire cal's unless you are using a really short barrel where there would be a lot of muzzle flash if you didn't have a silencer attached.

The muzzle flash is where you get most of first round pop, combined with a large expansion chamber that holds a lot of oxygen.

So, there's a few different things going on there.
Science. No arguments here.


CCI STD works fine for me from a 16" barrel 99% ... lesser quality standard or subsonic ammo may be less consistently loaded or sized and results in a larger fps spread.

I chronied several 22LR brands through both a Savage FV SR and a TRR SR suppressed and unsuppressed one day. The consistency of CCI ammo over the rest was clear for me. ELEY was the only thing I had with me that day to surpass or match the performance of CCI.

If someone is having a problem keeping CCI STD subsonic about the only next thing I'd say is worth trying is either CCI Quiet or ELEY Club/Match
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Re: "Hollywood Quiet" .22 host - barrel length questions...

Post by Hasdrubal » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:13 am

Well, it's either that your bulk ammo is going supersonic, and you're hearing the sonic crack reflected off downrange items, or if it's subsonic, it still has higher velocity than the CCI standard, and therefore more gas pressure from more powder. Bulk ammo seems to be supersonic from my 10" charger, as a general rule, but some brands are and some are not from my mkII. Unless you can tell by experience what supersonic sounds like, you would need a chronograph to be sure.

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Re: "Hollywood Quiet" .22 host - barrel length questions...

Post by Todd Is » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:11 am

CCI makes a 40 grain hollowpoint subsonic at an advertised 1050 fps. Highly recommended!!!
http://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/cci-22- ... ammunition

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Re: "Hollywood Quiet" .22 host - barrel length questions...

Post by jreinke » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:00 am

doubloon wrote:
silvor wrote:...
But I thought...and now I am realizing I am likely wrong, a short barrel bolt gun with bulk or even CCI standard, would get me "Hollywood quiet".
viewtopic.php?p=919025#p919025
doubloon wrote:...
Suppression dB ratings

153-190 -- if I were you I'd sell that KelTec RFB
147-152 -- unless that's a 50BMG you got ripped off
141-146 -- are you sure those rounds are subsonic?
135-140 -- you didn't spend enough
129-134 -- loud
123-128 -- quiet
117-122 -- stupid quiet
111-116 -- giggly quiet
105-110 -- mouse fart quiet
100-104 -- is that an air gun or did you forget to load it?
000-099 -- Hollywood
Your chart is wrong! Funny, but wrong. :wink:
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Re: "Hollywood Quiet" .22 host - barrel length questions...

Post by jreinke » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:05 am

silvor wrote:
jreinke wrote:My quietest gun is my SBRed TC Contender with a 22 LR barrel cut down to 5.5". With my Spectre II and shooting Aguila Super Kilobri's it's beyond Hollywood Quiet and into the realm of Mouse Fart Quiet! :wink:
Any videos?

How does it sound with bulk ammo?

I thought about doing something like you did, but wanted to use something similar to CCI Standard. I use Super Colbri's in my 24" Marlin bolt without a suppressor and there is zero report. My Savage and Spectre and CCI Quiets is quieter yet.

What part of WI are you from? I'm from SE MN.
No video capability. :(

I live in southern central WI about 18 miles above the state line with FIB land.
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Re: "Hollywood Quiet" .22 host - barrel length questions...

Post by Historian » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:54 am

Doubloon,

You did it again.

"105-110 -- mouse fart quiet" raised such a
funny image from long ago in the 1940's when I swear
I remember a sketch of Chuck Schumer, whose face on a box of DECON
breaking wind.

Needed this belly laugh to warm up on this frozen tundra.

Thank you, sir.

Actually, when HPA passes I plan on purchasing 2 Ruger cans and
doppleganging the baffles into a 9.5" Ti tube, emulating the late
great PTK's home brew that used to be on YouTube. Now that
actually was pellet round silent.

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Re: "Hollywood Quiet" .22 host - barrel length questions...

Post by doubloon » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:33 pm

jreinke wrote:...
Your chart is wrong! Funny, but wrong. :wink:
I'm open to suggestions. :D

Buckets are more or less based (among other things) on meterings of decent 9mm cans (123-128dB range), decent rimfire cans (117-122dB range) and the best rimfire cans (111-116dB range).

A 50 BMG suppressed actually meters ~150dB. So does a Kel-Tec RFB but the BMG is louder than the RFB unsuppressed ... barely.

Anything over ~135dB (and there are a lot of them) just plain sucks ... c'mon, pony up some $$ and get a real can.

I don't care how proud anyone may be of their ~130dB 45ACP, 40S&W or craptastic 9mm can ... that s--t is loud. It may be an acceptable suppression number but it's still loud.

No metering for any can I've seen yet consistently breaks the 110dB mark on a firearm except the JJFU Steel Potato.

The only thing I've ever seen meter below 100 is an air rifle or anything on the interwebs metered with an iPhone.

Is it the ranges you don't like? The labels?
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Re: "Hollywood Quiet" .22 host - barrel length questions...

Post by doubloon » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:35 pm

Historian wrote:...
Actually, when HPA passes I plan on purchasing 2 Ruger cans and
doppleganging the baffles into a 9.5" Ti tube, emulating the late
great PTK's home brew that used to be on YouTube. Now that
actually was pellet round silent.
:mrgreen:
I want to see that video.

I can actually see people doing stuff like this and crazier when HPA goes into effect ... it will be an entertaining day on the interwebs for sure.
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Re: "Hollywood Quiet" .22 host - barrel length questions...

Post by Historian » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:37 pm

Doubloon,

If say Ruger has any upper management imagination
they will see a golden opportunity to increase sales if they
respond to users' desire for 9.5" light weight .22 cans
using their great 'hyperbolic' surface design.

Variable size cans are already entering the market because
weapons aficionados want them. If they do not supply the
customer with what they want they will be passed by those
who respond. Ask anyone who purchased every SnapOn
extension bar, screw drivers, etc. Testosterone poisoning that
every red blooded American boy has been subjected too since
childhood.

From observation OCONUS 'eons' ago, one off .22 long cans did work.

Amazing what indigenous talented smiths could turn out when
a need was expressed and USD waved. And no CNC lathes.

Weak wrists need not apply or bleat. :)

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Re: "Hollywood Quiet" .22 host - barrel length questions...

Post by jreinke » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:38 am

doubloon wrote:
jreinke wrote:...
Your chart is wrong! Funny, but wrong. :wink:
I'm open to suggestions. :D

Buckets are more or less based (among other things) on meterings of decent 9mm cans (123-128dB range), decent rimfire cans (117-122dB range) and the best rimfire cans (111-116dB range).

A 50 BMG suppressed actually meters ~150dB. So does a Kel-Tec RFB but the BMG is louder than the RFB unsuppressed ... barely.

Anything over ~135dB (and there are a lot of them) just plain sucks ... c'mon, pony up some $$ and get a real can.

I don't care how proud anyone may be of their ~130dB 45ACP, 40S&W or craptastic 9mm can ... that s--t is loud. It may be an acceptable suppression number but it's still loud.

No metering for any can I've seen yet consistently breaks the 110dB mark on a firearm except the JJFU Steel Potato.

The only thing I've ever seen meter below 100 is an air rifle or anything on the interwebs metered with an iPhone.

Is it the ranges you don't like? The labels?
...
Suppression dB ratings

153-190 -- if I were you I'd sell that KelTec RFB
147-152 -- unless that's a 50BMG you got ripped off
141-146 -- are you sure those rounds are subsonic?
135-140 -- you didn't spend enough
129-134 -- loud
123-128 -- quiet
117-122 -- stupid quiet
111-116 -- giggly quiet
105-110 -- Hollywood
100-104 -- is that an air gun or did you forget to load it?
000-099 -- Mouse Fart Quiet

ETA: an Aguila through a Contender with a can is waaaaay quieter than an air gun, or at least my buddies nitrogen piston airgun.
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Re: "Hollywood Quiet" .22 host - barrel length questions...

Post by doubloon » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:53 am

Ah, I see.

6 ... 1/2 dozen maybe

The reason for the order I have those in is because I think of Hollywood as unrealistic since the majority sound like a pellet rifle or make no sound at all, thus Hollywood is in the range that includes air rilfes and zero.

Yes, piston air guns meter in the 90dB range but since Aguila is a gimmicky primer only round I don't put that in a "firearm" category ... more like a cap gun.

ETA: air gun reference http://www.straightshooters.com/decibel ... rguns.html

And maybe you need to come down here for a visit so we can adjust your mouse reference. :mrgreen:

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Re: "Hollywood Quiet" .22 host - barrel length questions...

Post by Boosted98gsx » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:07 pm

FWIW, my browning t-bolt firing CCI SV subs with a sparrow sounds no louder than a pellet gun. The hammer hitting the firing pin makes more noise than the round does.

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Re: "Hollywood Quiet" .22 host - barrel length questions...

Post by doubloon » Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:06 pm

Boosted98gsx wrote:FWIW, my browning t-bolt firing CCI SV subs with a sparrow sounds no louder than a pellet gun. The hammer hitting the firing pin makes more noise than the round does.
Yes, hammer drop sounds loud compared to a well suppressed 22 especially when the hammer is right next to your ear and the suppressor is 20"+ away.

A Ruger 96/22 with a sparrow and CCI SV meters at ~114dB, I'm confident your setup would actually meter within 1-2dB of that number but not 20dB less to get into Beeman R9 range.

If anyone was able to get a T-bolt with a sparrow and CCI SV to meter in the 90dB range every one would own one already. :mrgreen:
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