Lets help speed up our Form 4's!!!!

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Chondro
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Lets help speed up our Form 4's!!!!

Post by Chondro » Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:57 pm

I was over at my SOT’s last night testing out one of my new cans that came in and it occurred to me something we can do to speed up the approval process. His examiner had called and left a message that one of his customers had not written his social security number down and she wanted it to complete his application.

First thought was how very nice it was that she didn’t just kick it back and the second thought was what a complete waste of time. She’ll probably be just be picking up one of my forms when he calls back to pass that information on.

Between the number of applications up and so many new people in the class 3 business that are complete morons, along with the number of people filling out the forms that are misinformed and not very good at following directions, its really got to add up to time taken away from sticking those sexy stamps on the forms.(yeah a run-on sentence I know why I don't teach English to anything but the dog)

We should try and compile a list of the common mistakes and then put together an example of a Form 1 and Form 4 along with the fingerprint cards to show what goes where. Including the Certification of Compliance.

Then we all can print out the papers and give them to our SOT’s to pass along to their customers. Probably a good idea to get that in pdf format so they can just print it at as needed. I know someone here was really good putting things in pdf form.

The most common mistakes I can think of are:
1. On the back of the form 1 or 4 (17. Law enforcement Certification form 4 and section 13 form 1) have the sheriff write your name down when he/she signs off.
2. Have the pictures taken with the exact same specs as a passport photo..white background etc..Then glue it to the form and use just 1 staple at the center top(one person got his kicked back because he used 10 staples to affix the picture)
3. On the fingerprint cards make sure that the person doing them signs under the employer section. The person getting their fingerprints done does not put their employer there! (Have to go over that one everytime I get mine done and I know a lot have been kicked back because of it)

Lets all get together to see if we can’t make the examiners job easier and therefore faster! Maybe a crazy idea… but if not then any other common mistakes that you know have caused a delay then add to the list.

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YugoRPK
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Post by YugoRPK » Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:06 pm

Sheriff ?
Photos ?
Fingerprint cards ?

What are these things you speak of?

Doesnt matter. I'm still 4 months pending on a trust and it doesnt have any of that crap or a background check. Theyre just slow.

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Black
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Post by Black » Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:08 pm

Like this? http://www.silencerresearch.com/Silencerguide.pdf

But I also don't think it's really crapped up forms that are slowing everything down, I think it's just the volume.
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jeepjr
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Post by jeepjr » Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:37 pm

Black wrote:Like this? http://www.silencerresearch.com/Silencerguide.pdf

But I also don't think it's really crapped up forms that are slowing everything down, I think it's just the volume.

Not a good link. Most of that info is out of date. Ok to use as a general reference, but DO NOT follow the procedural instructions.
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Post by Wakko » Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:50 am

YugoRPK wrote:Sheriff ?
Photos ?
Fingerprint cards ?

What are these things you speak of?

Doesnt matter. I'm still 4 months pending on a trust and it doesnt have any of that crap or a background check. Theyre just slow.
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Chondro
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Post by Chondro » Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:03 am

I don't mean to say that the hang up is returning forms and getting them back. But it is the only single thing we have control over to a degree..If everyone here got their SOT to make sure that their customers filled out their forms correctly it certainly would speed things along..

Lets say the examiner sits down with 10 forms..8 are trusts and we all know that nothing is ever left out or mistakes made on those..but the other two are individual with mistakes. Now the examiner has to take the time to make phone calls or send them back..write down what needs to be added or corrected and send them back and make and answer calls while digging for the forms when calls are returned.

I just helped my SOT over the weekend do a local gun show and ran into 3 people who botched up their forms or fingerprint cards. One guy insists who screwed up he is speeding things up by calling every 2 weeks to move things along..hes been waiting 7 months.. :roll:

Hey if a 20% isn't a big deal I'll take that much out of your pay.. :lol:
If 10% of the time spent complaining about the wait was used to try and smooth things up..it would be..If 10% of a 40 work week is spent working on problems thats 4 hours that could be spent working on appoving or denying stamps..Multiply that by 13 examiners and thats 52 hours a week working on forms lost.

I get it though..no go..

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Diomed
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Re: Lets help speed up our Form 4's!!!!

Post by Diomed » Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:46 am

Chondro wrote:His examiner had called and left a message that one of his customers had not written his social security number down and she wanted it to complete his application.
Uh... huh? I seem to have missed the part where the applicant is supposed to put their social security number on a NFA form.

Anyway, IIRC the biggest single issue according to ATF is tax payments bouncing. Other than that a lot of it is human error (on both sides of the fence) which is never going to be removed from any system.

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Re: Lets help speed up our Form 4's!!!!

Post by ArevaloSOCOM » Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:52 am

Diomed wrote:
Chondro wrote:His examiner had called and left a message that one of his customers had not written his social security number down and she wanted it to complete his application.
Uh... huh? I seem to have missed the part where the applicant is supposed to put their social security number on a NFA form.

Anyway, IIRC the biggest single issue according to ATF is tax payments bouncing. Other than that a lot of it is human error (on both sides of the fence) which is never going to be removed from any system.
This........
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Post by Kramer » Thu Dec 31, 2009 9:58 am

YugoRPK wrote:Sheriff ?
Photos ?
Fingerprint cards ?

What are these things you speak of?

Doesnt matter. I'm still 4 months pending on a trust and it doesnt have any of that crap or a background check. Theyre just slow.
Same here, I sent in two Form 1s and two Form 4s this year (Corp transfer) and all took four months!

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Chondro
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Re: Lets help speed up our Form 4's!!!!

Post by Chondro » Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:47 pm

Diomed wrote:
Chondro wrote:His examiner had called and left a message that one of his customers had not written his social security number down and she wanted it to complete his application.
Uh... huh? I seem to have missed the part where the applicant is supposed to put their social security number on a NFA form.

Anyway, IIRC the biggest single issue according to ATF is tax payments bouncing. Other than that a lot of it is human error (on both sides of the fence) which is never going to be removed from any system.
Yeah I keep forgetting not everyone goes individual..The poor souls that go that route like myself have to send in a set of two fingerprint cards with the forms..Dead center in the middle of the cards you have to put down your social security number.
Good thing you didn't go that way or they would be calling you back as well.. :lol: Unless you examiner is not as nice as my SOT's then you would be getting it sent back to you.. :roll:
Kinda my point with all this..
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Post by WoofersInc » Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:05 pm

Yeah I keep forgetting not everyone goes individual..The poor souls that go that route like myself have to send in a set of two fingerprint cards with the forms..Dead center in the middle of the cards you have to put down your social security number.
That is why I like Metro PD here in Vegas. They do the electronic cards and all of that info is already printed out on them. SS#, address, etc. Only have to sign them and send them.

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jhs27275
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Post by jhs27275 » Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:51 pm

One way to speed up the forms is let someone other than Ashton do them. :x

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YugoRPK
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Post by YugoRPK » Thu Dec 31, 2009 9:01 pm

jhs27275 wrote:One way to speed up the forms is let someone other than Ashton do them. :x

Rub it in...

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Post by jhs27275 » Thu Dec 31, 2009 9:34 pm

YugoRPK wrote:
jhs27275 wrote:One way to speed up the forms is let someone other than Ashton do them. :x

Rub it in...
He's had me pending for over four months.

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chingon
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Post by chingon » Thu Dec 31, 2009 9:49 pm

jhs27275 wrote:
YugoRPK wrote:
jhs27275 wrote:One way to speed up the forms is let someone other than Ashton do them. :x

Rub it in...
He's had me pending for over four months.
Holy s--t, I had 2 Form 4s on a Trust go through in about 36 days
BATFE received 10/3/2009 approved 11/9/2009
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YugoRPK
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Post by YugoRPK » Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:17 pm

Ive also been pending with that douchebag since the first week in September. Another since the first of November.

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jhs27275
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Post by jhs27275 » Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:28 pm

YugoRPK wrote:Ive also been pending with that douchebag since the first week in September.
He got mine in August.

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<Mach1
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Post by <Mach1 » Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:33 pm

Can anyone say "Use or lose" annual leave?

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Chondro
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Post by Chondro » Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:19 pm

chingon wrote:
jhs27275 wrote:
YugoRPK wrote:
Rub it in...
He's had me pending for over four months.
Holy s--t, I had 2 Form 4s on a Trust go through in about 36 days
BATFE received 10/3/2009 approved 11/9/2009
Who was your examiner?? What you do send the girl in your avatar to him???? :P
36 days...Hell mine take about 30 just to go pending!!! How anyone would think government health care is a good idea needs to go through the NFA process once..
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<Mach1
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Post by <Mach1 » Fri Jan 01, 2010 12:18 am

Phttt.
F3 -> F4, mailed 10/20 - Pending 11/3.
F5 -> F4 (SOT) mailed 11/2 - major seller snafu w/ATF - X-fer finally approved 12/21. In hand 12/24.

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Diomed
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Post by Diomed » Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:26 am

YugoRPK wrote:
jhs27275 wrote:One way to speed up the forms is let someone other than Ashton do them. :x
Rub it in...
I sent him a Christmas card. :P

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Chondro
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Re: Lets help speed up our Form 4's!!!!

Post by Chondro » Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:21 pm

Diomed wrote:
Chondro wrote:His examiner had called and left a message that one of his customers had not written his social security number down and she wanted it to complete his application.
Uh... huh? I seem to have missed the part where the applicant is supposed to put their social security number on a NFA form.

Anyway, IIRC the biggest single issue according to ATF is tax payments bouncing. Other than that a lot of it is human error (on both sides of the fence) which is never going to be removed from any system.
What does IIRC mean? This has me a bit confused..The checks should be cashed in GA before they are ever sent to WV and then at least way before they go pending and end up on a desk..I don't see how the examiners would ever have anything to do with that part. Nothing should even start if the payment does not go through..

Hell if anyone is that stupid as to bounce a check on an NFA item they should have theirs kicked off to a pile and wait an extra year.. :roll:
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Post by Kramer » Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:23 pm

IIRC- If I Remember Correctly

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Chondro
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Post by Chondro » Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:54 pm

Thanks.. 8) I'm getting the hang of this..Really proud of myself for figuring out the quote function.. :lol:
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Deathray
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Post by Deathray » Fri Jan 01, 2010 4:29 pm

Diomed wrote:
YugoRPK wrote:
jhs27275 wrote:One way to speed up the forms is let someone other than Ashton do them. :x
Rub it in...
I sent him a Christmas card. :P
I'd order him a pizza and two stripper-grams if it would get my SBR approved.

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