Suppressor use for home defense.

[Chuck Finley]

I'll use my 10.5" AR + silencer for HD. With just my wife and I in our bedroom, I'm calling 911 and getting into a defensive position covering the door to my bedroom. I'm not going out and searching for someone in my house, valuables can be replaced, that's why I have insurance.

[LavaRed]

To be honest, I keep 2 .45 spent cases on my bedside table, because I have found they protect reasonably well against gunshot noise, while still allowing you to carry a "normal" conversation, for some odd reason. Doesn't work with other caliber cases tho.

Oh, but I do sleep with my M3 Grease Gun in bed. Loaded, Bolt closed, dust cover down.

[Mr_Psmith]

Remember, if you are worried about an irrational jury, you have the right to ask for a bench trial. It's up to you whether you want to trust the Hollywood-influenced Jury Pool, or the Judge who may-or-may-not have an axe to grind.

[Conqueror]

An AR is a suitable HG only if you live alone in a home a good distance from any others

Stopped reading right about there.

[KiloXray]

I can honestly say that I am absolutely DUMBFOUNDED by the number of posters that seem to think it is a good idea to use a suppessor and then REMOVE IT before the cops show up. I mean seriously, that is about the stupidest thing I have ever read on this forum. If you want to use a suppressor on your HD weapon, go for it. Man up and deal with however it goes down. I most assured believe that you have a significantly higher chance of the cops figuring out some how that you DID use one ( not saying there is anything wrong with it) than them NOT figuring it out. And if they DO figure it out and know that your removed it? I can only imagine the s--t storm that would insue for you.

Actually I sort of want to see one of you knuckleheads actually try this, so the rest of us can have a huge fat ass " I told you so" moment afterwards.

Wow.

[Chuck Finley]

An AR is a suitable HG only if you live alone in a home a good distance from any others..

What?

[jerrytofdallas]

Pistol's, hushed or not are not my first choice in a dark house at 3am with the alarm blaring, dogs barking etc. My go to bedside gun is a folding stock, short reset trigger, Tromix 8" Saiga-12 with a 20 round MDS drum loaded with reduced recoil and flash 00 buck. Got a Surefire light and green laser on it. I've never been accused of not bringing enough gun to the fight

http://i48.tinypic.com/2hx616v.jpg

[Chondro]

An AR is a suitable HG only if you live alone in a home a good distance from any others..

What?

The problem I have with AR's is the penetration of the round..In many instances all you have seperating your rooms in a home is drywall. Unless you would be lucky enough to hit a stud.

A few years ago they built a large group of homes here in the low 300 grand range and the housing constuction left something to be desired. Simply drywall on studs with 2 inch pink foam and then vinyl siding(the corners of the homes did at least have plywood 4 feet from the sides) And they wondered why their siding was buckling after a few years.

A few years ago I was at the range and met a gentleman there with an AR that he proudly toughted as his HG. He lived in the same apartment complex that I did while attending college..There is not a single direction in that complex that would be safe to shoot(with .223) at an intruder should you miss or say hit an area like the neck...That round is gonna just keep on going until it hits something big enough to stop it..

An AR is a great house gun if you live alone and have no chance ending on your back shooting in the direction of your kids room or through your wall into a neighbors window into their kids crib..

I spent alot of time shooting all different types of ammo into all kinds of things as a kid..I know what it takes to stop them..The only thing I haven't played with is the new frangible stuff..But I doubt even a 2 x 4 would be enough to stop it right there on the spot..

I'm not one that was ever unimpressed by the .223 round..I took an old truck rotor to the range this past summer to use as a "gong" and the 52 grain hollowpoints I was using buzzed right through it like it was paper..
A friend of mine also used a .223 to take down a 700pound animal(name escapes me now) on an African hunt nearly 20 years ago..He had broken his collar bone but the trip was already set..One shot to the aorta and it went right down..

The reason I use a pistol as a house gun is because its what I'm most famaliar with..I've been shooting them since I could walk..Well over a million rounds through pistols at this point in my life..Could shoot them in my sleep and can keep them concealed until I need them..
Not alot of time with shotguns..00 buck being a great stopping round..just not enough time using them that they would be a go to gun for me..

I think what ever gun you use for self defense a minimum of 1000 rounds should be put through it a year..With the primary focus being the background..

Didn't mean to upset anyone with the AR one..I'm sure in those instances the right measures that I spoke of are in play..Was trying to get others riled a bit on the other stuff..

Best to talk about and think about it here..If you have a business with a 100 employees that count on your for income..or a spouse and children that do as well..Then the monetary aspect should be looked at too..If lose your business then your employess are out of a job and then can't do things like come here and complain about getting screwed over 50 bucks of the cost of a can from their dealer...And your family still needs a home to live in to eat in if your alive..somebody has to make money even for the anti-capitalism crowd.. That was a joke people..don't hang me for that one..

[ThePatriot]

Using a can and taking it off in a effort to avoid telling the PoPo you didn't have when on when you shot the perp is a Huge No No IMHO.

If they caught you in a lie, you'd be so fucked. Interfereing with eveuidence, interefering with a police investigation, your ass is so raped.

If you'd be a fool.

Powder burns, blood splatter evidence and others would give you away IMHO.

THIS

[Chondro]

Why I mentioned the problem with the argument..It all goes back to perception is reality and the underlying theme of the thread.

My nutcase neighbor has nothing over you. He talks like this all the time and I can't understand him either. I will go with; do what seems right to you and always have your attorneys number in your pocket.

Thanks man...In a world of nutcases a normal person is considered mad.

[Cobra700]

A legally owned suppressor has never been used in a self defense shooting.

Exactly. I can see some $200/hour ambulance chaser attorney representing the criminal I shot asking me on the stand

"So you have a silencer on the weapon you used to cripple my client? In your opinion Mr. Ick, isn't that a ninja weapon? So is it true that you used a ninja weapon to cripple an unarmed helpless man that was just trying to feed his family?"

No thanks. Unfortunately I am going to have to tolerate damage to my hearing to avoid said peril.

Thats why you don't "cripple"

[Diomed]

The problem I have with AR's is the penetration of the round.

The current state of groupthink is that with frangible ammo, the 5.56 AR is less likely to present an overpenetration risk in structures than standard pistol rounds.

[Chondro]

I've heard good stuff about those bullets..I have to admit I would need to see it..I had some old 30 caliber stuff from Vietnam..It was compressed steel powder..It wouldn't richochet..But it sure as hell would not turn to dust..

Even those explosive varmit bullets will go through a 2 x 4..

Glaser safety slugs are the best for pistol IMHO..No idea if they even make those anymore though..

[rob_s]

those that poopoo the 5.56 for indoor use but instead choose to use a pistol due to a perception of "over penetration" would do well to research their opinion before posting it publicly for all to scorn and ridicule.

There are other reasons why I might choose a handgun vs. a carbine in a defensive role, but over-penetration of the round is not one of them.

[Conqueror]

The problem I have with AR's is the penetration of the round.

I knew what you meant, my point was that you are not correct. Any ammo that will penetrate bad guys will also penetrate walls. 9mm will penetrate at least 12 layers of 5/8" sheetrock. Many of the good 5.56 ammo available these days fragments before penetrating as many walls as regular handgun ammo. There's not really anything wrong with using a 5.56 rifle for home defense, even if you don't live a mile from the neighbors.

[adrianrog]

My concern has always been that if I start a shootout downstairs that the girls will come into the stairway and be in the line of fire.

Of all the reasons that I read 'for' having a suppressor on a HD gun, this is one of the best.

For me, I figure I'm not very likely to have to defend my home, but I do want a gun around if I do. I currently have a S&W M10 with +P Gold dots in my bedroom. In addition to that, if I'm home, there's also a Kahr PM9 with +P gold dots, which is my carry gun.

While I don't think I'm likely to need to defend my home, I figure in the next 20 years, there's a good chance that someone might break into my home and steal any guns they can get their hands on. Having expensive guns out just means that expensive guns will be stolen. I'd rather loose a $300 M10 than a $400 glock and a $500 can and a $25 magazine and a $200 tax stamp. On top of that, that M10 can sit there for 20 years and still work just fine if I need it. A semi-auto magazine might or might not work well after sitting loaded for that long.

On top of that, I feel like I can defend my home with the M10 pretty effectivly and only risk $300.

On top of that, adding a can hurts reliability in more cases than it helps. I might eventually decide to keep a Glock out for 15 or 17 rounds instead of 6, but I'd never add a can and decrease reliability.

-Adrian

[JohnInNH]

I've heard good stuff about those bullets..I have to admit I would need to see it..I had some old 30 caliber stuff from Vietnam..It was compressed steel powder..It wouldn't richochet..But it sure as hell would not turn to dust..

Even those explosive varmit bullets will go through a 2 x 4..

Glaser safety slugs are the best for pistol IMHO..No idea if they even make those anymore though..

You may want to rethink that! In one FBI study they were rated the WORST!

Not enough penetration Bird shot in jelly is still bird shot. The report actually made a point of saying "Glaser Safety Slugs" ... not a generic name which surprised me as being the example of what to not use.

I will try to find the article... I posted a link to it here once.

Found it.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf Page 5 2nd paragraph

"Fackler, when asked to estimate the survival time of someone shot in the front mid-abdomen with a Glaser slug, responded, "About 3 days, and the cause of death would be peritonitis."

[Lindenwood]

As far as over-penetration goes:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm

No round that will reach adequate penetration depths in a BG will be stopped by a reasonable number of standard interior walls.

And yes, with proper selection of ammunition you not only can end up with a round that is more effective at close ranges than standard FMJ, but with a reduced risk of over-penetration.

[cardboardkiller]

I hear all of the talk about rounds only going through this many layers of sheet rock and that this other round only goes through this many layers of sheet rock. None of you guys have windows in your houses?

Not bagging on anyone here in the least, I find all of this extremely interesting.

Yes, I know about the Box of Truth, the various tests and so on and so forth. I've been crawling around the internet and gun boards since the late 90's and fooling with guns for about 30 of my 35 years on this planet. I'm not calling myself an expert, but I'm not exactly a noob and I've put a bullet or two in a few things that aren't paper.

[Conqueror]

I hear all of the talk about rounds only going through this many layers of sheet rock and that this other round only goes through this many layers of sheet rock. None of you guys have windows in your houses?

Not sure what your point is... bullets from any firearm will go through a window with ease, so is it really even worth discussing? You can kill your neighbors with any gun if the bullet goes through a window.

[cardboardkiller]

Not sure what your point is... bullets from any firearm will go through a window with ease, so is it really even worth discussing? You can kill your neighbors with any gun if the bullet goes through a window.

You just made my point.

[rob_s]

I know I often refer to this forum as bizarro world, but christ it just got really fuckin' weird. 30 of 35 years and still wandering around lost in some other dimension...

[cardboardkiller]

I know I often refer to this forum as bizarro world, but christ it just got really fuckin' weird. 30 of 35 years and still wandering around lost in some other dimension...

My point is/was if you are that worried about over penetration through sheet rock there is always the choice of buckshot, which even if it escapes your house, will expend most of its energy (some say 70%) with 35 yards of the muzzle in a looser choked shotgun.

Killing or wounding someone in the next house with buckshot, much less 3 or 4 hundred yards away, is far less likely.

Go suck on some kryptonite.

[Omega_556]

My point is/was if you are that worried about over penetration through sheet rock there is always the choice of buckshot, which even if it escapes your house, will expend most of its energy (some say 70%) with 35 yards of the muzzle in a looser choked shotgun.

Killing or wounding someone in the next house with buckshot, much less 3 or 4 hundred yards away, is far less likely.

Complete and total ignorance...

Go suck on some kryptonite.

Good advice, you should take it.

[cardboardkiller]

Complete and total ignorance...

You might want to take up your opinions with the Box of Truth seeing as how 9mm hollow point and .45 hollow point both penetrated more sheetrock than the 12 gauge.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm (Pay special attention to the bottom of the page 2 summary)