.44 Magnum Rifle Questions?

[Solothurn]

I want an accurate suppressed .44 Magnum rifle. I'd like a Ruger 77/44 with a 1-11" Douglas barrel but still considering an NEF or maybe a lever-action. If I go with a detachable silencer, I want to SBR the rifle.

What silencers are suitable for this application?

What's a good barrel length for subsonic 240-300 grain bullets?

Is anybody making a 1-11" twist barrel for the NEF?

Does anybody make an integral .44 with a 16 to 17" barrel? Which makers do the best job on something like this?

Is a screw-on with a short barrel going to be as quite as an integral with the same overall length?

[Conqueror]

If I was building any sort of suppressed .44mag, it would be a 77/44, and it would be built by SRT Arms.

[Skunk]

NEF uses a 1-38" twist barrel in 44 mag. The logical next best for that rifle would be 45 Colt, which they build with 1-16" twist barrel. Good heavy bullets are available in that caliber and it is sub sonic to start.

If you have to have 44 mag, SRT/ Ruger 77/44 is the way the way to go.

[Dweezil]

^This^. WAY too slow of a twist in the 44Mag Handi. Rifle. The 45LC is a much better choice. Also, the NEF 45LC Buffalo classic comes on the stronger SB2 frame rated to much higher pressures than the NEF 44 Mag, which usually comes on the SB1 frame found on shotguns, muzzle loaders etc. With this frame/barrel combo, you can load the 45LC to MUCH higher pressure than the typical "cowboy loads" if extra power is something you're looking for.
I have a 45LC BC off getting threaded as we speak.

[toolfan91]

Only one problem with the SRT setup, it's sealed. Elite Iron makes a take apart unit with the fast twist Douglas barrell, so if you are casting your own .44 mag bullets, that'd be the way to go IMO.

[Dweezil]

Yupp! I'm getting a QMF 45 for my 45LC, mostly because I'm going to need to clean it after shooting lead cowboy loads. It's light, short and I don't need a booster in this application.

[TEXMEX]

Only one problem with the SRT setup, it's sealed. Elite Iron makes a take apart unit with the fast twist Douglas barrell, so if you are casting your own .44 mag bullets, that'd be the way to go IMO.

S & H Suppressors also makes a suppressed 77/44 designed for a user to disassemble to clean.
http://www.sandharms.com/

[Diomed]

Denall's version is also user-servicable.

[Crosshair]

Yup. Any Suppressed 44 mag gun should be a take apart design. If you don't then you are seriously limiting yourself in what ammunition you can shoot.

I really like Denall's design and were I to do it again I would still go with him.

[Solothurn]

Does TD Manufacturing have a website? I can't find anything. Anybody got a pic of their Denall 77/44?

[bigbigpig]

Does TD Manufacturing have a website? I can't find anything. Anybody got a pic of their Denall 77/44?

I'm not sure if he has a website but he emailed me a picture a while ago when I was shopping for a 77/44. I ended up going with the SRT and couldn't be happier. Here's the pictures and my thoughts on it in this post:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=23125&p=225524&hili ... er#p225524

[Crosshair]

Does TD Manufacturing have a website? I can't find anything. Anybody got a pic of their Denall 77/44?

He does not have a website.

Here is a bad pic of mine.



Here is a video of me shooting mine. The audio does not really do a good job of showing how quiet this thing is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jMeacFXNZA

[mg81]

My personal experience with my 77/44 rifle with a Douglas fast twist barrel is that you can only use quality jacketed bullets like an XTP.

The rifling rate in the fast twist tends to tear your bullet apart. Plated (Rainer style) bullets will have there jacket partially stripped and left in the suppressor and the accuracy is crap. Hard cast bullets fall into the same category. Perhaps if you don't try to shoot them at max subsonic speed (~1050 fps) like I do than you would do better. Maybe a slower powder would help as well(I use titegroup)

I guess my point is having a user serviceable can is not as important to me as performance (has there been a reputable trial done to compare the different integrally suppressed 77/44's?) since I only use jacketed bullets the suppressor really does not need any cleaning for the number of rounds that I will put through the gun.

I would highly recommend SRT's 77/44 rifle. The accuracy of the rifle and workmanship is first rate and they are prompt with service and answering emails/phone calls.

[ranb]

I am making a can for my 16 inch 44 mag contender barrel. It has a 1-22 twist. I have learned a few things with this barrel. One is that hard cast bullets even with gas checks will leave lots of lead behind at 1050 fps if a fast burning powder like bullseye is used. Slower WC820 (like H110) means a lead free bore, as long as I do not use any crimp at all. While crimping made for more consistant velocities, it also made for much leading.

Magnum rifle primers also make a big difference when using a light load (15 grains) of WC820. A load with a pistol primer leaves much unburnt powder in the bore, low velocity, higher stdev's and large groups. The rifle primers even improve the performance of bullseye when lightly loaded with 9 grains in the large 44 magnum case.

So far I am grouping 2 inches at 100 yards with Sierra 250 FPJ, 4 inches and up with cast Lee 310 grain from wheel weights. Even though the end caps will be welded on, I can still service the can if I find gunk building up from cast bullet use. I can cut off the welds on my lathe and take out the baffles 9 (I hope) to clean them. But if I can not make the cast bullets group better than six inches at 200 yards, I will stick with jacketed and damn the expense.

Ranb

[Crosshair]

The rifling rate in the fast twist tends to tear your bullet apart. Plated (Rainer style) bullets will have there jacket partially stripped and left in the suppressor and the accuracy is crap. Hard cast bullets fall into the same category. Perhaps if you don't try to shoot them at max subsonic speed (~1050 fps) like I do than you would do better. Maybe a slower powder would help as well(I use titegroup)

Very good point and something people need to think about when getting a suppressed 77/44. The fast twist rate means you'll be able to use the heavier bullets, but it drastically cuts down on the types of bullets you can use. The slower twist rates don't handle the heavies as well, but your choices of usable bullets goes up.

I guess my point is having a user serviceable can is not as important to me as performance (has there been a reputable trial done to compare the different integrally suppressed 77/44's?) since I only use jacketed bullets the suppressor really does not need any cleaning for the number of rounds that I will put through the gun.

Yup. It all depends on the intended use. For me, the ability to take apart and clean is vital because I exclusively use my own cast lead bullets. The drastic cost savings means I can afford to shoot it more. For someone with more money who can afford all those jacketed bullets, then a take-apart design is not a requirement.

It would indeed be interesting to have a side-by-side test.

I am making a can for my 16 inch 44 mag contender barrel. It has a 1-22 twist. I have learned a few things with this barrel. One is that hard cast bullets even with gas checks will leave lots of lead behind at 1050 fps if a fast burning powder like bullseye is used. Slower WC820 (like H110) means a lead free bore, as long as I do not use any crimp at all. While crimping made for more consistant velocities, it also made for much leading.

Very odd. I use soft cast (air cooled) bullets in my 77/44 w/1-20 twist and have no leading at all regardless of what powder I use. The fastest powders I have used were Titegroup and Clays. Clays gave good accuracy, but Winchester 231 beats it by a small margin. I use a decent crimp on all my 44 rounds.

The only time I have had leading problems is when I tried to skimp on the amount of lube I put on the bullets. Even then, the leading was easily brushed out. What are you sizing to and what are you using for lube? I Tumble lube with a mix of Johnson's Paste Wax, Vaseline, and Lee Alox. Then shove them through a .430" Lee sizer die.

I wonder why I have to work hard to make bad cast bullets and others seem to have to work at it to make good cast bullets? I know it's not because I'm good. Wonder what it could be?

[ranb]

I started with alox, am now using a mixture of mineral oil and parafin wax. It was changing powders that did the most for me. I use Hornady checks and size to 430".

Ranb

[redtazdog]

My personal experience with my 77/44 rifle with a Douglas fast twist barrel is that you can only use quality jacketed bullets like an XTP.

The rifling rate in the fast twist tends to tear your bullet apart. Plated (Rainer style) bullets will have there jacket partially stripped and left in the suppressor and the accuracy is crap. Hard cast bullets fall into the same category. Perhaps if you don't try to shoot them at max subsonic speed (~1050 fps) like I do than you would do better. Maybe a slower powder would help as well(I use titegroup)

I guess my point is having a user serviceable can is not as important to me as performance (has there been a reputable trial done to compare the different integrally suppressed 77/44's?) since I only use jacketed bullets the suppressor really does not need any cleaning for the number of rounds that I will put through the gun.

I would highly recommend SRT's 77/44 rifle. The accuracy of the rifle and workmanship is first rate and they are prompt with service and answering emails/phone calls.

Thats strange that your 44 barrel tears up bullets, I have shot and tested the cheap Rainier's, Hornaday's, Nosler's, Sierra's
Hawk bullets and Speer and never had any bullets tear apart with both of my 1:11 twist barrels.
I would think if your barrel is tearing apart the bullets then your can would be tore up inside.

[mg81]

When I talk about the bullets being torn up I am referring to the outside getting stripped off by the rifling. I was shooting into a loose sand back stop and it was very clear that the bullets were getting the outside shaved off by the rifling, very apparent when I compared them to the same bullet shot out of a much slower twist pistol I also load to about the same velocity.

I am sure the outside of the bullet hitting the suppressor guts was not helping it one bit, I would have to shake out the loose bits (they were clearly bits of the plated jacket) from the suppressor, a long slow process, best done mindlessly while watching a movie.

I know Lees 2nd reloading manual has an excellent section on lead bullets and how to correctly choose loads/powder that won't destroy the bullet in the rifling. I am sure after reading the book that my powder choice(to fast) is a bad one for the plated bullets, which I think are probably a rather soft lead core, (I am guessing a soft swagged lead?). Not as hard as many cast bullets.

[goat]

Okay, new here.

Im looking to get a 77/44 built. So Im going to pester you all with Q's.

Wanting the 1:11" twist barel. I want the whole rifle to be around 30" including an integral suppressor. What length barells are some of you running?

Mine would be around 12" I am thinking. Will only ever shoot at sub-sonic [950-1000fps].

Cheers in advance.

[coyote223]

Okay, new here.

Im looking to get a 77/44 built. So Im going to pester you all with Q's.

Wanting the 1:11" twist barel. I want the whole rifle to be around 30" including an integral suppressor. What length barells are some of you running?

Mine would be around 12" I am thinking. Will only ever shoot at sub-sonic [950-1000fps].

Cheers in advance.

You'll probably need to have one custom made. Barrel on the SRT Bison is 8", non-removeable suppressor is 17". Web-site says total length is 1" longer than factory, factory 77/44 length is 38.5". So it's a bit over your 30" length requirement,,,


http://www.srtarms.com/

[goat]

Does anyone have an email address for Douglas Barrels?
http://www.douglasbarrels.net

I cant even find a .44 with a 1:11 twist on thier web page
They list 14, 16 & 36 twists only.

Do Brownells sell them?

[glocker17]

Probably a special order twist, and not a catalog item.

[Dark Tranquility]

Can you still fire standard off the shelf 240 grain and 180 grain .44mag ammunition with the 1:11 Douglas barrel or are you from that point on limited subsonic ammunition? I really would like to be flexible with what ammunition I use but don’t want to risk the potential baffle strike with the 1:20 factory barrel

Is there anyone else making custom fast twist barrels except Douglas?

Thanks, Dan

[freestar]

Does anyone like their Johns Guns suppressed Ruger 77/44? The baffles come out of the end so it is partially cleanable.The expansion chamber around the barrel and barrel ports are not accessable because the tube is not removable. How important is it to clean these areas when shooting lead cast bullets? Are some of these suppressor exterior tubes from other companies removable for cleaning and is this an important design feature?

How is the quality of the Johns Guns new Ruger 77/44 rifles after the take over by the new owner compared to the ones John Tibbets made? I have read a few negative postings by unhappy customers recently and I am wondering if I should be concerned about dealing with this company with the new ownership?

I like the look of the thinner suppressor tube on the Johns Gun rifle. It looks more like a normal rifle barrel.
Anything bigger in diameter looks bigger than the receiver and starts looking big for this little rifle.

[Crosshair]

Does anyone like their Johns Guns suppressed Ruger 77/44? The baffles come out of the end so it is partially cleanable.The expansion chamber around the barrel and barrel ports are not accessable because the tube is not removable. How important is it to clean these areas when shooting lead cast bullets? Are some of these suppressor exterior tubes from other companies removable for cleaning and is this an important design feature?

If you're shooting lead it's quite important. Tom Denall's design was made from the start to use cast bullets. It has no barrel ports and all the baffles come out as does the outer tube.

If you shoot a lot of lead you do get quite a bit of lead and lube buildup that should be cleaned every so often.