Prodigy POI shift and bullet tumble on Ruger Mark II

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kapkanimd
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Re: Prodigy POI shift and bullet tumble on Ruger Mark II

Post by kapkanimd »

Islander wrote:
kapkanimd wrote:
Islander wrote:My question actually meant "Did you just call them before posting the 'Still Nothing' comment?"

I spoke with Mike Mers at AAC today. The current status is:

Cores are built. Waiting for final anodyze. Expect delivery to AAC around March 1, then immediate shipment to folks with this unique problem.

MY THOUGHTS:
Being from a manufacturing background, I will not freak out if two weeks from now I hear "two more weeks". If it turns into a month or two, I'll be concerned. Right now my money is on AAC to resolve this in less than a month.

Best to all,
Islander
Hmm thanks for the update, I dont understand why they couldnt have just told me that :^/
Don't know. I called Mike Mers and talked with him. Did you call them recently?
I have tried calling a ton of times, I used to get through, but lately no luck.. tried P/M as well but no response yet.. I am fine as long as I know something is up, I dont need to talk to them now if that is what they will tell me.
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JohnInNH
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Re: Prodigy POI shift and bullet tumble on Ruger Mark II

Post by JohnInNH »

TOOL1075 wrote:it's pretty cool of a company to re-manufacture a product to alleviate a defect or performance issue. that is actually above-and-beyond, and a great expense, I think. they could have just said "those barrels aren't good enough" or something - but instead, they changed the design. expensive F--k-up, but an honest no-bullshit solution. I like it.

I'm just curious as to what the problem is/was..... is it blast baffle geometry? core run-out? specific thread-length of these barrels resulting in gas shedding at the worst possible point in early-time bullet travel?

man, I'm just curious - but I know there probably won't be a public official answer.... it's just neat to think about though, and highlights the importance of design nuances.
I applaud what AAC has done with the Prodigy from a customer support standpoint.. I am surprised they excited to hear they have redesigned/tweaked the core to fix this.. I would like to know what was changed. I don't want to have another new set of problems (the old core had less blowback as example) or what are we sacrificing to make the fix?

I would rather work with them to provide data than to just say screw it.


If it is 2 db louder at shot4 but 3 db less FRP, less blowback, and more stable, than I don't mind loosing 2-3 db.

Hopefully that is what's happening..

I still want to help AAC by supplying data. If I can get this bead blasted I will try to get new pics of a new set of targets to check for keyholing.
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Re: Prodigy POI shift and bullet tumble on Ruger Mark II

Post by JasonAAC »

TOOL1075 wrote:it's pretty cool of a company to re-manufacture a product to alleviate a defect or performance issue. that is actually above-and-beyond, and a great expense, I think. they could have just said "those barrels aren't good enough" or something - but instead, they changed the design. expensive F--k-up, but an honest no-bullshit solution. I like it.

I'm just curious as to what the problem is/was..... is it blast baffle geometry? core run-out? specific thread-length of these barrels resulting in gas shedding at the worst possible point in early-time bullet travel?

man, i'm just curious - but I know there probably won't be a public official answer.... it's just neat to think about though, and highlights the importance of design nuances.

We want to make the best stuff period. We won't hide the answer, I'll find out the deal. I'll also try to keep checking on status for the new cores.
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kilroymcb
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Re: Prodigy POI shift and bullet tumble on Ruger Mark II

Post by kilroymcb »

To answer your question, yes. I spoke to Mr. Mers personally a little over a month ago. He gave me two weeks out at that time... Which seems to be a recurring them.

I think this is the last "two weeks" I will be waiting. Its all very well and good that AAC is working to resolve the problem. However, fixing this problem has taken the length of 2 tax stamp approvals. Why would I wait on a product to "maybe" be right when I can get another that doesnt have any problems?

And this isnt me hating on AAC. I own one of their SPR/M4 cans and love it. But enough is enough.
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Re: Prodigy POI shift and bullet tumble on Ruger Mark II

Post by TOOL1075 »

i read Robert's patent today- is that why they called it the Prodigy? is it named after Robert? lol
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Re: Prodigy POI shift and bullet tumble on Ruger Mark II

Post by Islander »

kilroymcb wrote:To answer your question, yes. I spoke to Mr. Mers personally a little over a month ago. He gave me two weeks out at that time... Which seems to be a recurring them.

I think this is the last "two weeks" I will be waiting. Its all very well and good that AAC is working to resolve the problem. However, fixing this problem has taken the length of 2 tax stamp approvals. Why would I wait on a product to "maybe" be right when I can get another that doesnt have any problems?

And this isnt me hating on AAC. I own one of their SPR/M4 cans and love it. But enough is enough.
I can't blame you for being frustrated. When they told me they thought it might take a couple months to fix, and this was before SHOT, I automatically gave them 6 months in my head. I've worked in design & manufacturing. It ALWAYS takes longer than you think, and with all the work that comes before SHOT, I did not expect a quick solution. 8)

For the record, I've seen pictures of the new core in non-anodyzed form. AAC told me the new core increases sound signature by about 0.5 dB. Last I was told was that new cores are built and awaiting final anodyzing and should be in house around March 1. We'll see.
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Re: Prodigy POI shift and bullet tumble on Ruger Mark II

Post by Queso Grande »

Islander wrote:
kilroymcb wrote:To answer your question, yes. I spoke to Mr. Mers personally a little over a month ago. He gave me two weeks out at that time... Which seems to be a recurring them.

I think this is the last "two weeks" I will be waiting. Its all very well and good that AAC is working to resolve the problem. However, fixing this problem has taken the length of 2 tax stamp approvals. Why would I wait on a product to "maybe" be right when I can get another that doesnt have any problems?

And this isnt me hating on AAC. I own one of their SPR/M4 cans and love it. But enough is enough.
I can't blame you for being frustrated. When they told me they thought it might take a couple months to fix, and this was before SHOT, I automatically gave them 6 months in my head. I've worked in design & manufacturing. It ALWAYS takes longer than you think, and with all the work that comes before SHOT, I did not expect a quick solution. 8)

For the record, I've seen pictures of the new core in non-anodyzed form. AAC told me the new core increases sound signature by about 0.5 dB. Last I was told was that new cores are built and awaiting final anodyzing and should be in house around March 1. We'll see.

Good,
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Re: Prodigy POI shift and bullet tumble on Ruger Mark II

Post by Queso Grande »

Any word yet?
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Re: Prodigy POI shift and bullet tumble on Ruger Mark II

Post by JohnInNH »

Queso Grande wrote:Any word yet?
I was hoping to hear form Mike.. Still nothing. :?

I hope nothing went wrong...
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Re: Prodigy POI shift and bullet tumble on Ruger Mark II

Post by Islander »

I've seen photos of a finished ANODIZED core. Beautiful piece of work. Should not be long now.
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Re: Prodigy POI shift and bullet tumble on Ruger Mark II

Post by bamachem »

I currently have a 10/22 w/ SB-X, S&W 2213 w/ threaded adapter, and a Buck Mark SS that I'm about to get threaded.

My first NFA purchase will be a 22LR can in April.

I am SO GLAD I read through all 6 pages of WAITING contained in this thread. Until about 2-minutes ago, I was actually considering an AAC that's in stock at a dealer in my state.

No offense to AAC, but this seems to be a rediculous timeframe for handling a problem of this nature.
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Re: Prodigy POI shift and bullet tumble on Ruger Mark II

Post by Queso Grande »

bamachem wrote:I currently have a 10/22 w/ SB-X, S&W 2213 w/ threaded adapter, and a Buck Mark SS that I'm about to get threaded.

My first NFA purchase will be a 22LR can in April.

I am SO GLAD I read through all 6 pages of WAITING contained in this thread. Until about 2-minutes ago, I was actually considering an AAC that's in stock at a dealer in my state.

No offense to AAC, but this seems to be a rediculous timeframe for handling a problem of this nature.

What you can't see is the Phone calls and Emails that never get answered. ridiculous is correct...
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Re: Prodigy POI shift and bullet tumble on Ruger Mark II

Post by JasonAAC »

Everyone that has contacted me has gotten timely updates and replies.

This is a complicated fix/design update to address the issues some people are having. We wanted to make sure we got it right.

We are working hard to provide an awesome solution and at the end of the day our customers will be taken care of. I apologize that it has not been faster. But yes, the light at the end of the tunnel is very close.
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Re: Prodigy POI shift and bullet tumble on Ruger Mark II

Post by Islander »

Queso Grande wrote: What you can't see is the Phone calls and Emails that never get answered. ridiculous is correct...
For the record, every time I've called I have either been able to reach someone, or if not, I have always received a call or email back. Every email I have sent has been answered. And I have received updates without asking for them.

I can't account for anyone else's experience. I've always been polite and patient, and from the BEGINNING said I was willing to wait, even though alternatives were offered.

And for the record, I have no affiliation with AAC except owning a Prodigy.
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Re: Prodigy POI shift and bullet tumble on Ruger Mark II

Post by kapkanimd »

+1 I have been kept up to date on every step so far. I had a short gap where I had some trouble with contact, but Jason has been excellent and has been more than helpful with everything. This has been a long time coming, but I am not by any means harmed by not having my prodigy for the time it has been at AAC. I am aware that the final product is due any day now and I am more than happy with the outcome.
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Re: Prodigy POI shift and bullet tumble on Ruger Mark II

Post by wolf »

Queso Grande wrote:
bamachem wrote:I currently have a 10/22 w/ SB-X, S&W 2213 w/ threaded adapter, and a Buck Mark SS that I'm about to get threaded.

My first NFA purchase will be a 22LR can in April.

I am SO GLAD I read through all 6 pages of WAITING contained in this thread. Until about 2-minutes ago, I was actually considering an AAC that's in stock at a dealer in my state.

No offense to AAC, but this seems to be a rediculous timeframe for handling a problem of this nature.

What you can't see is the Phone calls and Emails that never get answered. ridiculous is correct...
i cant see them either

do you have a link to what you are talking about (your own experience )
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Re: Prodigy POI shift and bullet tumble on Ruger Mark II

Post by bamachem »

Good for you guys who are patiently waiting. I'm not so sure that I would be anything other than frustrated and disappointed if I were in your shoes.
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Re: Prodigy POI shift and bullet tumble on Ruger Mark II

Post by Queso Grande »

wolf wrote:
Queso Grande wrote:
bamachem wrote:I currently have a 10/22 w/ SB-X, S&W 2213 w/ threaded adapter, and a Buck Mark SS that I'm about to get threaded.

My first NFA purchase will be a 22LR can in April.

I am SO GLAD I read through all 6 pages of WAITING contained in this thread. Until about 2-minutes ago, I was actually considering an AAC that's in stock at a dealer in my state.

No offense to AAC, but this seems to be a rediculous timeframe for handling a problem of this nature.

What you can't see is the Phone calls and Emails that never get answered. ridiculous is correct...

Yes, and others
i cant see them either

do you have a link to what you are talking about (your own experience )
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Re: Prodigy POI shift and bullet tumble on Ruger Mark II

Post by audiojason »

Jason, is there a s/n range that is having problems, or are all units affected? Will there be a signup for the second new updated core? If so where will you be posting this info? Thank you for all the hard work.
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Re: Prodigy POI shift and bullet tumble on Ruger Mark II

Post by JasonAAC »

audiojason wrote:Jason, is there a s/n range that is having problems, or are all units affected? Will there be a signup for the second new updated core? If so where will you be posting this info? Thank you for all the hard work.
There is no range covered, it is a limited issue with some users on some hosts. If people are having issues, we will take care of them. We are only seeing this issue with a handful of people on a handful of particular guns.

If you are in the majority of people that have no issues, keep using your can, if you ever do have an issue in the future, we'll take care of you. If you bought/do buy a PRODIGY and have any issues, it will be fixed at no cost. The updated "fix" core is 1/2 dB louder than the 'normal' PRODIGY.

All updates will be here on ST, most likely in the AAC subforum, and on the aacblog.com.
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Re: Prodigy POI shift and bullet tumble on Ruger Mark II

Post by audiojason »

Thank you Jason. You ar allways super fast to replay and so helpful. Thanks again.
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Re: Prodigy POI shift and bullet tumble on Ruger Mark II

Post by JohnInNH »

Jason,

Have the new designed Prodigy cores come in from the outside vendor yet?
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Re: Prodigy POI shift and bullet tumble on Ruger Mark II

Post by JasonAAC »

JohnInNH wrote:Jason,

Have the new designed Prodigy cores come in from the outside vendor yet?
Email sent 5 minutes ago to you John. ;)
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Re: Prodigy POI shift and bullet tumble on Ruger Mark II

Post by JohnInNH »

Thanks... Will take the appropriate action.

Looks like no pistol silencers for a while... My Osprey has to go back too :(

I really can't wait to have the new core so I can start using it on my pistols w/o worrying about damaging it.

Now with a D-tool I can really use it like I have wanted to.

I will report my findings as soon as I get it back.

Again .. Thanks for all the help.
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Look what showed up at my house today...

Post by Islander »

Prodigy third generation core:

Image

Will shoot it tomorrow and report back. :mrgreen:

EDIT: Shot the Prodigy today with excellent results. About a 1.5" POI shift at 25 yards, straight up, and no keyholing for Winchester and Federal big box ammo. This is strictly for my Ruger MkII with TacSol barrel. For a pistol, that's close enough. Surprisingly I was getting better groups with the suppressor attached. Maybe more stable with that weight out front. Note that all four groups were shot without a bean bag, just resting my arm against the range lane wall. I am VERY pleased.

Thank you Mike Mers and Jason Marcella, all the engineers, machinists and all the other great folks at AAC. Excellent product.

Image
Last edited by Islander on Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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