General silencer discussion. If you want to talk about a specific silenced rifle or pistol, it is best to do that in the rifle or pistol section for that brand.
One other thought I had was what kind of ammo are you shooting? I had some surplus stuff that was really nasty and that might be an issue? try the fnh factory ftuss and see if that changes anything. just an idea!
The ammo that am using is Factory FNH SS197 and SS198. Neither function with the suppressor on. However, both function flawlessly with the suppressor off. That fact coupled with the amount of debris in the chamber and the appearance of the spent casing indicates without much of a doubt that it is the suppressor causing the malfunction. Its almost funny (not really) how it’s the fault of the ammo, the weapon, the barrel, etc, never actually a poorly designed/manufactured suppressor.
Worse than the cost to send it back is the fact that I will not have access to some of my primary weapons the entire time all three are gone. No one has mentioned how long this will be (days, weeks or months). How many of you reading this thread would want to have to send your perfectly functioning weapons many states away for an undisclosed amount of time to someone you don’t even know. The money isn’t the half of it, just an inconvenience! As you can see in the previous post, I offered to ship the AWC back to the distributor at my expense (I’ve already paid $30.00 to get it here) knowing that I would have to pay the difference and shipping a third time just to get my hands on something that works. And I like the thought of a stranger touching my weapons just about as much as I’d like one touching my wife.
As far as Tornado Technologies goes, I decided to go with them because I had done a little research and from what I read, it seemed that they were the better choice between the two. I am very pleased with their work! I hope that Goldie or someone else from Tornado Tech will chime in and defend their product.
I will send my weapons and the suppressor back to AWC once I have shot (no pun intended) the video that I have referenced earlier.
Your going to send your weapon and your can to the people you have already peed on in this thread. Great!
They will do what they always do and already have asked to do for you, help you get this squared away.
Your host is hardly expensive given what travels through their doors. They do class III work all day long, all week long, those guns come in with price tags in the tens of thousands.
The fact that your host fires the rounds without the suppressor means absolutely nothing. It the host AND the can, the barrel WITH the can, that is the issue that plagues you.
Undisclosed amount of time? Did you ask? Someone you don;t know? Did you not already speak with Chris? The inconvenience is hardly your issue alone. They are going to to work hard to understand how you have created a rare host that won't function with their can. Be far less suspicious, far less distrusting and far more thankful that they have extended their shop and best interests to get your gun back on its feat, working on a host THEY DID NOT BUILD. My guess is that you will not pay for anything, trust me when I tell you that AWC isn't in the business to bust your chops over shipping costs when you post a thread that suggests that AFTER you put on a welded end barrel that you have problems and that those problems are THEIRS. Their issue is most likely correcting the record and getting a valued customer back on track.
Your weapon is NOT your wife. For those that depend on their cans and their weapons they read a line like that and sum it up pretty fast. Clip the lace off your panties and get the host back to the shop. These guys mount, match, machine and set-up more barrels and cans than most.
A little research? Hardly, barrels do not get welded.ever, especially when there are full made barrels available. Hell some of them they GLUE (Loctite) to the end of the barrel. Second note to yourself, your research skills need a broader and deeper effort.
Get ready, your about to write an open apology to AWC.
Last edited by Lost Soul on Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I’m amazed at the fact that I can graduate college a total of five times and still be so stupid! An average tenth grader should be able to figure out why the weapons are unable to cycle. Condescending pricks tend to irritate the hell out of me.[/color] [/b][/quote]
So what the hell is the problem? Maybe you should go back five more times and figure out how to silence the sonic crack!
SRM wrote: I’m amazed at the fact that I can graduate college a total of five times and still be so stupid! An average tenth grader should be able to figure out why the weapons are unable to cycle. Condescending pricks tend to irritate the hell out of me.[/color] [/b]
So what the hell is the problem? Maybe you should go back five more times and figure out how to silence the sonic crack! [/quote]
Lost Soul wrote: Get ready, your about to write an open apology to AWC.
and
Clip the lace off your panties and get the host back to the shop.
I will write a lengthy apology if it is determined that I am incorrect. But I don’t see that happening in this situation.
You seem to know a lot about AWC and their suppressors. You also seem awful defensive of their product and employees. Where does the vast knowledge come from and what is you association with AWC?
How bout I clip the lace off your ole ladie's panties? Judging by the way you type, I’d be willing to bet she’d appreciate it.
BimotaBiker wrote:You seem to know a lot about AWC and their suppressors. You also seem awful defensive of their product and employees. Where does the vast knowledge come from and what is you association with AWC?
While I don't think it's quite to the point we need to be getting out the torches and pitchforks, one has to admit that having two-thirds of one's posts be about AWC's greatness (and the remainder concerning trashing a competitor) is a little fishy.
If I was AWC, I would be pissed off that after offering to do the right thing all you do is post it out.
Since the early 60's many of us having been mounting cans of one source or another and after a while it all gets pretty clear. There are few companies, very few that have actually contributed squat on the design and construction of top end suppressors, most steal designs (and only if they actually have the machinery to do anything more than washers), more build "good enough cans." Most don't understand the very basics about cans and their interaction on hosts, you will see guys bitch about sending their MiAs back to AWC three or four times and then on some Saturday night we all get to hear the tales of the guy that had a barrel built at AWC and a spindle custom made and matched (only company in the world that does that) only to bitch and bitch about the fact that his rifle won't shoot and function. Then we all get to roll around laughing our asses off when the story gets told that the perfectly made barrel was hacked back by his "custom builder", tipping the whole gas exchange off kilter. Months spent complaining about the very best M1A can made only to find out that his parts rifle was totally compromised by a bobbed barrel that shows a lack of basic understanding of effects of a chop on a M1A can. New matched spindle and it was a tack driver. Sound familiar? One either knows about cans and hosts or they don't. Almost without exception, the very first to bitch on-line are the ones that end up embarrassed as hell as they catch up on the curve, they are also the ones that watch as companies like AWC and others do everything they can to help them catch up.
For the record, again, I do not work for AWC, never been to AWC, never sold an AWC can, don't get paid by AWC, own more cans then most and for more years than most have been alive and have grown tired of newbies bitching about makers when 99.9% of the time they are clueless. No more pissing on good companies because they are too heads down busy to scribe out on threads. AWC isn't the only great can maker, but they sure as hell are one of the very best and the others are rarely mentioned.
As Mac once stated " For the last number of years I have heard people refer to AWC Systems Technology as using “old” designs. The common phrasing goes something like this “AWC, yea they have been around, their stuff is the highest quality but it’s heavy and expensive, you can probably pay less for a more modern design.” Nonsense, it’s the purest form of pabulum puked up by the uninformed “wannabes” looking to divert attention away from the real facts of the matter. Nobody has sold more suppressors than AWC Systems Technology. Nobody has improved suppressor performance more than AWC Systems Technology. Nobody has contributed more to the very newest designs available than AWC Systems Technology. Nobody has pioneered more advanced manufacturing techniques or employed more sophisticated material utilization than AWC Systems Technology. Nobody has more repeat customers than AWC Systems Technology. Titanium use? For decades. Aluminum use? As little as possible as we have all seen what happens in the field. 100% circumferential welding? AWC pioneered it. Bimetallic construction to take the ring out of titanium? Since the beginning. Reflective designs? Not for a decade. Lifestyle products? Unlikely."
The simple fact that your willing to let the barrel maker (if you can call it that) defend himself but won't let the can maker even see the host with the can speaks legion. All backwards, all upside down. Not a line more until you get your can and host back to them and we all see what is really going on.
As to my wife, professor, she died back in '92 so you will need a shovel.
Lost Soul wrote: As to my wife, professor, she died back in '92 so you will need a shovel.
Although you have not changed my opinion concerning the suppressor that I purchased or the fact that I have to send it back to AWC to be "fixed" on my dime, I humbly and sincerely appologize for my previous insensitive comment concerning your late wife.
Lost Soul wrote:
<snip> (we get it, AWC has done a lot)
I'll play. Which pistol-sized can does AWC currently produce that is competitive with offerings from Gemtech, AAC, SWR, and others? I'm asking because I want to know - I have no dog in this fight.
I think a lot of statements referencing the "less-modern" aspect of AWC cans stem from the competition making quieter products. Thoughts?
this makes me laugh (because it's funny, not because I doubt its "truthyness":
YES, makes the Trinity sound like a Evo and I am not trying to be funny. I felt like I was raped when I first shot mine. And here is the best part AWC knows this s--t. There is no way after all the phone calls they still believe this piece of s--t is in any way quiet. They will when asked make the excuse "in it's class" if the class is heavy as s--t and loud as F--k they win. Really the only quiet suppressor they make is the Ultra 2 77/22 and maybe the MK 9. And a retard can make those quiet. Mid 80s technology and shitty mid 80s. Even the Archangel I have is at best 22db and that is if I spit in it.
and then here's some good info:
The original MK-9 was a coaxial design that used a pretty simplistic core of stamped cone baffles ahead of a mesh wrapped diffusion spindle that vented through a series of ports around the diffusion spindle into the volume between the inner and outer tubes. The last MK-9 I examined (circa 2005) was a coaxial design, but the simple stamped baffles had been replaced with a smaller number of machined aluminum "K" baffles. K baffles typically work best with higher pressure. To fix a bunch of them in a tube downstream of a diffusion spindle venting into a coaxial setup does not seem that intuitive. If someone wants a traditional MK-9, buy a MK-25 from Tim Bixler of S.C.R.C. He still builds them the "old" way, and his machine work is truly second to none.
speaking of which, I'm assuming Tim Bixler is still around and making nice cans?
lost soul is a shill.
awc has been trying to hush people up from saying negative things for some time now.
Wouldn't shock me if this person is rollingthunder from SnipersHide or some other guy who is on the dole to do damage control for their dated products.
Do a thread search on SnipersHide for awc and you can see this behavior in all its glory.
Hopefully the mods will shut down this shill instead of letting him shout from his keyboard about how someone with a problem is automatically and idiot, point the finger at everything except the can and berate him about how he is not worthy of full service because he isn't a big enough account or a secret squirrel.
By the way, Tornado Tech threaded my 57 barrel and THREADED on an extension, not welded.
It works flawlessly with every can I have used(nothing from awc)
Right or wrong the OP has a problem and shouldn't have to endure this worthless propaganda.
I am telling you dude, cut your losses with AWC and move on. This will not end well as they have your money and you have a stamp for the can, you are over a barrel and they don't care if you fall in.
Lost Soul and RollingThunder51 on Snipershide are certainly the same, I noticed this on his first post in this thread. I used to think that AWC using this shill was silly, but now its just pathetic, so blatantly obvious.
Two times I have sent a can into AWC and the customer service and turnaround was excellent, now if they will get there technology out of 1985 they will be good to go.
Lost Soul wrote:
P.S. References to any LSS regulator harkens back to gen I and only in the first few months. Any reference to Thundertraps being heavy (they are now 100% titanium and are amongst the lightest available) tells you were your responses are coming from. LSS's haven't shipped out of AWC with regulators for YEARS.
First off, YES I was one of the first to recieve an LSS, it did come with a cycling device, NO it did'nt effing work, YES I talked Chris into making me a thread adapter and was adamant about the system not needing a cycling device. I LIKE my LSS just fine now, the OP asked if anyone had experience with the can what I said was 100% fact.
Yes I love my ThuderTrap but it is heavy, it would only cost me 995.00 to have the baffles switched to titanium.
BTW Explain how the LSS is a low pressure can and how it is so different than the TT, I bet if someone x-rayed a TT, Raider and LSS they would all look the same.
I enjoy all of my AWC cans. But yes we all know some of the s--t is a little dated.
And I don't want you to think I,m hiding behind a screen.
BimotaBiker wrote:
Worse than the cost to send it back is the fact that I will not have access to some of my primary weapons the entire time all three are gone. No one has mentioned how long this will be (days, weeks or months). How many of you reading this thread would want to have to send your perfectly functioning weapons many states away for an undisclosed amount of time to someone you don’t even know. The money isn’t the half of it, just an inconvenience!
....
And I like the thought of a stranger touching my weapons just about as much as I’d like one touching my wife.
Total load of crap IMHO.
Access to some of my primary weapons ... Really? One pistol, one upper, and one suppressor? What is it, three items from your inventory or the only three you think you might need?
I have sent "working" firearms far away to be worked on by people I only know on-line. It's nice to have skilled hands working on my firearms versus a local hack or pipe fitter from the community college. Is your point AWC employs sub-standard staff?
Inconvenienced ... Okay I'll give you that one, especially shipping the FN pistol. The upper and can not so much.
Handling your "mal-functioning/working" firearms the same as as your wife? Really? Comparing a firearm to your wife .... class. If it's really that bad, write it off as a loss and lesson learned or trade the soon to be Ex in for better model. Either way, the two really don't compare IMHO.
Lost Soul wrote:If I was AWC, I would be pissed off that after offering to do the right thing all you do is post it out.
Since when does "offering to do the right thing" mean refuse a refund and require a customer to send some of their possessions on their own dime to you? What about a thread job would make a silencer crud up the chamber of a firearm?
Sounds like a very bad silencer design by AWC to me.However, the AWC customer service seems much worse.
Sid Post wrote:Is your point AWC employs sub-standard staff?
Since staff includes engineers.... did you read the first post?
Boy am I glad I rented an AWC can before buying one. Holy @#$#@^! was it loud. The blowback was outrageous as well.
Lost Soul wrote:We all got that. Anybody that welds on a barrel extension, especially in this caliber is most certainly looking to save the $20.
BS. I would rather have a factory barrel than an aftermarket one. And people don't use Tornado to save $20. They use them to get the best work even though it is not the cheapest.
Lost Soul wrote:Nobody has improved suppressor performance more than AWC Systems Technology. Nobody has contributed more to the very newest designs available than AWC Systems Technology.
soooo, how do you explain silencerco's osprey???
Lost Soul wrote: Nobody has more repeat customers than AWC Systems Technology.
soooo, how do you explain the repeat customers of aac, swr, silencerco and gemtech???
and yes, i do own an archangel t but if swr had the Spectre then or if silencerco had the sparrow then, i wouldve bought one or the other.
No sure what you're implying, but we don't "weld" on the extensions on the FN 5.7 barrels. Not sure where this rumor started.
The advantage you get when using the factory barrel is you have a chrome plated chamber and bore. In my experience, this is almost a necessity when running suppressed as the guns foul quickly. We have a customer satisfaction warranty, if you're not happy, well make it right, up to and including replacing you barrel or gun if need be.
BimotaBiker,
Interesting symptoms. Let us know how the situation plays out and if there's anything we can do to help.
Even my bargain basement coastal suppressors sound ten time better side by side than anything AWC has put out and I get a lot better customer service. =)
AAA wrote:Lost Soul,
No sure what you're implying, but we don't "weld" on the extensions on the FN 5.7 barrels. Not sure where this rumor started.
The advantage you get when using the factory barrel is you have a chrome plated chamber and bore. In my experience, this is almost a necessity when running suppressed as the guns foul quickly. We have a customer satisfaction warranty, if you're not happy, well make it right, up to and including replacing you barrel or gun if need be.
Thanks for posting this.
The 5.7 barrel you threaded for me is doing great.
Shot it yesterday, 70 rounds, no problems.
I have a little beretta .22 barrel that I need to get out to you.
Just thought I would take a few minutes to update this post….
I sent both the AR-57 upper and the FN 5.7 x 28 to AWC at my expense (nearly $100 with insurance). After several conversations with Chris Short, he asked me, if given a choice, which gun would I rather the LSS to work better on if I was given a choice. I told him that I would prefer the AR-57 work the best if I had to make the choice.
Weeks passed and I decided to call and see how the job was coming. Chris informed me that the LSS was tuned to the pistol since that was where it seemed to perform best. Not what I wanted but whatever.
Eventually, my dealer received the FN and my Class III received the LSS and the AR-57 upper. I drove down to my Class III to give the pistol a test run in the fall of 2011 only to find that AWC forgot to include the adaptor that I had sent back to them for testing purposes. I called AWC looking to talk with Chris only to find that he had “moved on”. I explained my situation to a fellow on the other end of the telephone that was polite and responsive. He said he would send one right out. When the adaptor arrived, it was exactly the opposite of what I needed having no value to me whatsoever.
Another call was placed and the same fellow informed me that supposedly, I had an older version of the LSS (not the first time I heard that from AWC). He said they would make it and get it sent out. A few months went by and I had to make a call to see what was up with my adaptor. I was told that it was still in the works. Another couple of months went by and another call to AWC resulted in the same response.
I allowed another four to five months to pass before calling today. My call was received by a fellow named Martin Edge. He apologized for what had taken place and asked me to send a photo of the weapon including the measurement from the end of the barrel to the end of the threads. Two and a half years have passed since I purchased this suppressor from Armament Services (not Ron Carmen as I sent a check directly to them at their request). Hopefully, Martin can make this happen in the near future. I’ll keep you posted.
