What "Conditions" Are Ever Made With An Approval?

[wyoguy]

I Did a Individual Form 1 for a Can.

Mailed it in on 5-5.

Check Cleared By 5-25.

Went Pending on 6-21.

Approved on 7-27.

Mailed 7-28. Received by Me 7-31.

That's Just about 65 Days... Examiner was Jason Freshour.

So, I Am !!!

But Looking At It Very Closely...I See Where The Examiner Checks the little box for "Approved"....It has a big blank for "With The Following Conditions, If Any".
My Approval Had No Conditions,
But that got me thinking---Has Anybody Here Ever Got An Approved Form 1 Back...WITH Conditions !? (and if so, what?)

Thanks,

Wyoguy

[David Hineline]

Typically that would be the spot for restricted as a sales sample or for government or LE use only type thing.

Or any other legal restrictions that might come into play.

[flip]

My F1 condition was that my full trust name and revocable living trust was engraved instead of my name RLT.

[wyoguy]

My F1 condition was that my full trust name and revocable living trust was engraved instead of my name RLT.

Interesting...

Rather than Sending It Back To You, or 'Disapproving' It...The Examiner essentially 'Corrected' You by Approving the Form 1 IF You Actually Complied With His/Her CONDITION That You Spell Out The Full Name of Your Trust !?!?

That Backs Up Was Has Been Said By Many Guys Here That You Cannot Abbrebreviate 'Revocable Living Trust', You Must Spell It Out!

Wyoguy

[JohnnyC]

That's interesting. I asked a lawyer friend (who gave his personal opinion, not legal advice) that as long as you have a naming clause in the trust where by you specify that your trust can be abbreviated to xxx xxxx RLT that it works for legal purposes (whatever abbreviation you decide to go by is the only abbreviation you can use). Something about it being specified by name in the actual trust makes it legal. However he did make sure to say that this was only his opinion based on other estate trusts and didn't have experience with NFA trusts so the ATF may not approve of the naming convention despite it being legal as far as the trust validity goes.

I'd be interested in a gun lawyers take and if it is in fact legal to specify any other naming conventions, and if so, if it is legal in the eyes of the ATF.

[GlockBuyer]

that it works for legal purposes

The BATF doesn't care about what is or isn't "legal" nor do they care about the everyday Laws that run the Country. They only care about their own internal opinions & Rulings. All it takes is for one Political Appointee's opinion to change and suddenly something that was okay last week will get you 10 years in Club Fed this week. Sadly, this is true for most State & Federal Regulatory Agencies.

[Garrett]

Here's one I have. It's on a Form 1 for an SBR. I registered this gun in March '04 and it was approved in Aug '04., a month and a half before the end of the assault weapons ban. It's hard to read, but it essentially says the gun has to be in compliance with the assault weapon law.

The ironic part is that the gun is a T/C Contender. No semi-auto anything. Interestingly enough, there was no such marking on the Ruger 10/22 that I SBRed in 2001.



I have another one for my Triple-X Warrior silencer. My dealer put the model as "Warrior", which is how it was transferred to him. In the Conditions box, the examiner hand-wrote "4d Model Triple X". Essentially, she was saying the model was not correct (according to what she had on file), and rather than return it to me, she noted it here, thus making the correction and saving me some time.

[Chondro]

I sent in my form 1 for an SBR in May..The only extra lower I had here is stamped .22lr so I thought if I'm going to SBR one I should get a "multi"..I mean what the hell they all cost the same..Plus I wanted it to be a billet since I have to have it engraved and I'm stuck with it for life..

Week after I sent it in I was reading something the attorney who wrote up my trust had written online and said multi is no longer acceptable..I called up the ATF and asked to talk with the examiner I was told it was pending with.(turns out it was with another) He said when he gets it he will send it back to me.. Well I get a call last week and after playing phone tag a bit I got a hold of the examiner knowing full well what it was about..Wanted to know what caliber and I fumbled it a bit and then settled on .223 figuring that would cover all the bases..Was told fine and that I just would have to have it engraved as such...Hold on there!! (Never going to shoot .223 in an SBR) Told him .22, 9mm, 45 and .223..was told it would be taken care of it and that it was approved..Got the stamp in the mail today..Very nice examiner..(Nope don't ask who)

(Really think my idea to make up a few sheets so these mistakes don't happen is a good idea..but what do you do? )

The examiner just used white out on "Multi" and added the calibers and checked it approved and slapped on one of those super sexy stamps ..Now I have to get the damn thing engraved again..Had it duracoated mirage tan after Sundevil engraved it for me from the factory..

Can I have the calibers engraved anywhere? Like around the trigger so you can't see it..Don't want to bother duracoating it again.

At least I finally know my trust works and how I sign everything now as "trustee" and such is correct..Got way to many toys out on that trust..

I thought for sure I would see something written in the conditions box..

[Diomed]

I'd be interested in a gun lawyers take and if it is in fact legal to specify any other naming conventions, and if so, if it is legal in the eyes of the ATF.

Not a lawyer, but ATF's take is that the regulations specify only recognized abbreviations may be used. Their interpretation is that only postal abbreviations and other extremely common ones (i.e. NYC for New York City) qualify as recognized, with abbreviated business names being permitted when a marking variance is issued.

If you want to use an unusual abbreviation like RLT, you need to submit a marking variance request and enlist the support of your senator to lean on them to approve it since they do not, as a matter of policy, approve marking variances for persons not in the industry.

You could also name it as such - "Joe Smith RLT" - but you're rolling the dice on the examiner allowing it through.

Can I have the calibers engraved anywhere?

You can put them on the barrel, but I really do not see a need to mark your receiver with a bunch of calibers. The gun has one caliber in the field, mark it with that, make it with that, and you're in the same position as everyone else who's ever made a SBR and changed the caliber.

[Chondro]

The lower is stamped "Multi" for caliber..The approved form 1 now has .22, 9mm, 45, 223 listed..

What should I do?

[Diomed]

The lower is stamped "Multi" for caliber..The approved form 1 now has .22, 9mm, 45, 223 listed..

What should I do?

The form should have only one caliber in the relevant box. If in doubt, call them and have the customer service rep see what caliber the gun is registered with in the system. My advice, worth what you paid for it, is to mark it in that caliber and then install the short barrel in that caliber. That discharges your responsibility to make the gun as it's been registered.

[Chondro]

I really hate this SBR now..Wouldn't it be registered as all these calibers now? Isn't the rep just gonna tell me what it says here?

This is what I have on my form 1..


I just want to put this on and call it a day..actually what I want to do right now is take this can off..get a 5 inch .223 barrel put in the Ciener kit and stick on the Kodiak because this is not going to be approved for months..Screw the other calibers.

[Diomed]

I really hate this SBR now..Wouldn't it be registered as all these calibers now? Isn't the rep just gonna tell me what it says here?

Not really. The computer record only allows one caliber to be entered. You can consider that the "official" caliber. When the rep looks it up, that's all they'll see on their screen.

Don't get too hung up on this marking. It's a low priority, and having the caliber markings on there is a low priority of a low priority, since they change so much.

[Chondro]

Sweet!! Thx man!

[bikefreek]

my dealer accidently listed my can as a "trident" and the condition was that the model was "Trident9"