Petition for another registration?

[jbabb]

I'm sure there is plenty of controversy and opinion surrounding this, but I recently read in Small Arms Review that the director of the Treasury Department has the authority to institute an UNLIMITED number of 90-day registrations for machineguns (I read this a few weeks ago, so correct any mistakes I may have made). Being that the last registration for such was in 1968 and the end of machinegun manufacture for civilian sales came less than 20 years later, I am extremely interested in what WE could do as a community in regards to petitioning for another registration(s).

It reminds me of the AWB from 1994 to 2004 and how SIMPLY it was overturned and how the hi-caps just started flowing out the doors of gun companies once again. But what would be the negatives of another registration since we all know the positives? I have read of a possibility of an increased transfer-tax if such a thing were to occur.

One thing that I am unclear on, however, is what machineguns and other such NFA items would fall under another registration. Would companies be able to simply register serial numbers with the ATF and start cranking out registered receivers or would this only apply to a converted AK47 someone has had hidden away that they now want to make legal?

Regardless, what do you guys think? What steps would we take in order to actually make some headway and push for another registration?

[eazenutz33]

I'm not 100% sure what you're talkin about, but being able to register new machine guns....possibly in large quantities, I would be all over!

I know a guy who owns a couple CNC machines, lathes, plenty of billet aluminum,........if that were to come thru I would be introducing the new Dr.Eaze RDIAS serial numbers 00000001 to however many I could afford before the deadline. Use some of the money from the business to register as many as I could make, then keep enough to keep me happy and sell the rest at a substantial markup.



I'm not going to hold my breath tho!

[m1garand30064]

As for the AWB, there was a sunset clause in the bill which is why it went away. All it required was inaction from congress which is the only thing they are good at. There is no sunset clause in the 86 MG ban so it will take an act of God to overturn it.

I'd love to see it happen, but I am not holding my breath.

[wyoguy]

I'm sure there is plenty of controversy and opinion surrounding this, but I recently read in Small Arms Review that the director of the Treasury Department has the authority to institute an UNLIMITED number of 90-day registrations for machineguns (I read this a few weeks ago, so correct any mistakes I may have made). Being that the last registration for such was in 1968 and the end of machinegun manufacture for civilian sales came less than 20 years later, I am extremely interested in what WE could do as a community in regards to petitioning for another registration(s).

While I Would Like to See The Actual Article...
I Have to Say That Even THE CONCEPT is Pure Fantasy!
I See No Way in the World of Today's Political Realities That ANY President or Any Congress is going to Approve 'another registration'!?
Also, and Don't Think This 'Dynamic' is Not Real...Just The Discussion of Such Upsets Not Only the Anti-Gunners and the Brady Bunch...But Every Single Rich, Powerful, Influential Person Who Currently OWNS One or More Pre-86 Full Autos! 'THEY' Will Fight Even the IDEA of 'another registration'.
Besides, What a 'dumb' way to pursue it...an 90-Day Oklahoma Land Rush Kind of 'Registration' !?
Not Gonna Happen...Period!

Just My Thoughts...

Wyoguy

[Armorer-at-Law]

It sounds like what you are talking about is an "amnesty" period in which MG that would otherwise be registrerable, but are not, could be added to the registry. Any such fantasy amnesty would likely be limited to pre-'86 MGs, such as old war trophies found in grampa's attic, not newly minted (or even post '86 MGs).

[ick]

Seems to me that there is a lot of danger in requesting action... with virtually ZERO possibility of upside.

[Kramer]

It sounds like what you are talking about is an "amnesty" period in which MG that would otherwise be registrerable, but are not, could be added to the registry. Any such fantasy amnesty would likely be limited to pre-'86 MGs, such as old war trophies found in grampa's attic, not newly minted (or even post '86 MGs).

Yeah this is what they have thought about doing, especially with all of the WWII and Korean war Vets dying and leaving all kinds of stuff in their attics and basements.

I know a guy who owns a couple CNC machines, lathes, plenty of billet aluminum,........if that were to come thru I would be introducing the new Dr.Eaze RDIAS serial numbers 00000001 to however many I could afford before the deadline. Use some of the money from the business to register as many as I could make, then keep enough to keep me happy and sell the rest at a substantial markup.

A full amnesty with never happen because of this statement above. Could you picture thousands of guys doing the above with the current wait for transfers now, we would have to wait five to ten years to see approval for a million items.

[saltydecimator]

I'm sure there is plenty of controversy and opinion surrounding this, but I recently read in Small Arms Review that the director of the Treasury Department has the authority to institute an UNLIMITED number of 90-day registrations for machineguns (I read this a few weeks ago, so correct any mistakes I may have made). Being that the last registration for such was in 1968 and the end of machinegun manufacture for civilian sales came less than 20 years later, I am extremely interested in what WE could do as a community in regards to petitioning for another registration(s).

While I Would Like to See The Actual Article...
I Have to Say That Even THE CONCEPT is Pure Fantasy!
I See No Way in the World of Today's Political Realities That ANY President or Any Congress is going to Approve 'another registration'!?
Also, and Don't Think This 'Dynamic' is Not Real...Just The Discussion of Such Upsets Not Only the Anti-Gunners and the Brady Bunch...But Every Single Rich, Powerful, Influential Person Who Currently OWNS One or More Pre-86 Full Autos! 'THEY' Will Fight Even the IDEA of 'another registration'.
Besides, What a 'dumb' way to pursue it...an 90-Day Oklahoma Land Rush Kind of 'Registration' !?
Not Gonna Happen...Period!

Just My Thoughts...

Wyoguy

thing that i have heard about that is most machine gunners would love to get there hands on current toys (g36, kriss, glock 18) so they would love to see it go away as well. i am a conspiracy guy but come on!

[Selectedmarksman]

That would be like petitioning for the right to freedom of assembly. Maybe once every 60 years they'd let you, but that wouldn't change the fact it was meant to be an unalienable right.

I say, don't beg for crumbs when it was your fucking cookie they stole.

[Diomed]

A limited amnesty has been on the table and come very close (very close) to getting done. It would have applied only to firearms eligible to have been registered in the last general amnesty though, so no registrations of converted SCARs or Saiga 12s would have been accepted, just the Tommy gun in grampa's attic, or great-granddad's Maxim silencer.

There is zero chance of it happening while Obama is in office, so don't waste your time trying.

I say, don't beg for crumbs when it was your fucking cookie they stole.

I agree, but the likelihood of getting the cookie back is nil.

[jbabb]

A limited amnesty has been on the table and come very close (very close) to getting done. It would have applied only to firearms eligible to have been registered in the last general amnesty though, so no registrations of converted SCARs or Saiga 12s would have been accepted, just the Tommy gun in grampa's attic, or great-granddad's Maxim silencer.

There is zero chance of it happening while Obama is in office, so don't waste your time trying.

I say, don't beg for crumbs when it was your fucking cookie they stole.

I agree, but the likelihood of getting the cookie back is nil.

For some reason, I just dont see this machinegun ban that originated in '86 to go on forever. Just look at how far marijuana has come in the past 30 years since it was a felony to possess. As for the collectors and "investors", I really think there are enough of them, too, that would like to see the ban end so they could get their hands on new hardware and toys, moreso than the minority of those planning their retirement on the impending value inflation of their Colt M-16.

I also believe that such a thing happening would have no effect on the growth of the NFA community. Silencers and machineguns, among other NFA items, have never been illegal and there has only been steady growth within the NFA world in conjunction with national population growth (more of a direct ratio). However, yes, I do understand the concept of manufactures submitting hundreds upon thousands of approval letters before they even put the metal in the lathe.

I think we will get the cookie back. It might have been dropped, but the 5-second rule will still apply to this one...

Time will tell.

[Diomed]

Just look at how far marijuana has come in the past 30 years since it was a felony to possess.

But marijuana liberalization has had what amounts to popular media support for going on four decades, to the point where it's almost, almost, accepted as being normal. Guns are demonized and fetishized, machineguns even more than average guns.

I also believe that such a thing happening would have no effect on the growth of the NFA community. Silencers and machineguns, among other NFA items, have never been illegal and there has only been steady growth within the NFA world in conjunction with national population growth (more of a direct ratio).

We are still a minority of a minority, and thanks to the law, that can't change. Machinegun owners probably comprise about 0.01% of the population of this country. That means no political power and no social power, and since the number is capped, that will never change. Are there enough wannabe owners to make up a bloc worth listening to? Maybe, but I have yet to see anything resembling an effort to make that actually happen.

There is a deep cultural bias against machineguns, to say nothing of the total governmental hatred of them. There is not enough support in either the judiciary or the legislature to correct what happened in 1986, and the best we can hope for from the executive is another amnesty, and while a viable possibility under a different administration, it's not a cure-all.

[evo45]

While on the phone with a Dell worker from the Philipines I was talking with the guy about guns and are they legal there and he said yes. (my new dell took a s--t and I was on the phone with the same guy for like 3 days trying to get it fixed and the computer still sux.) Uppon futher discussion he said they mg's and silencers are legal there too. He said every 10 to 15 years they have an open amnesty just so they can actually know where the mg and silencers are and any unregistered gun. It still dosent mean that every gun gets registered but if you had made a mg or silencer or bought what you thought was a stolen gun you could openly register it with the government without prosecution. It seems to work for them. Tho I dont think they allow manufacturers to be a part of it, it may actually allow the gooberment to know who else has stuff that they have been hiding away for the end of the world.

[RamblinMan]

Oh yes, let us pardon everyone with illegal firearms and just continue to screw those who follow the rules. It would be very much in line with the way we have handled taxpayers and non-taxpayers.

[saltydecimator]

here is a thought, maybe we should make a club or lobbying organization? or find a current pro gun org to work with us on it.

another thought i had in the shower is this, we could (?) use the freedom of information act (?) and find out the complete background of anyone ever locked up on illegal machine gun charges and get their "sob" story and have them lobby congress as well, as they seem to love criminals. (liberals that is) and then normal redblooded politicians can just be appealed to in the rational normal method.

on another side note, a local gun shop had a grand opening here in OKC OK, and some local state reps and senators were out pressing the flesh at the store. the store is a class2/7 sot with a demo letter. he has a glock 17c with a fun switch, ak and numerous m16 platforms. and deals in silencers as well. anyways, the reps/senators were apparently sympathetic, or at least acted as such, as i was told.

i will prob turn this into its own thread, cuz thats the only way to get s--t done, not just wishing it would happen on a message board. anyone have constructive thoughts?

[Tyris]

Oh yes, let us pardon everyone with illegal firearms and just continue to screw those who follow the rules. It would be very much in line with the way we have handled taxpayers and non-taxpayers.

You mean pardon everyone who has broken a law with NO VICTIM.
The law is the definition of malum prohibitum.

Screw it. I've seen illegal MGs out in the woods, no way in hell would I ever rat someone out for it. More power to em, they've got bigger balls than 99% of gun owners.

-T

[RamblinMan]

You mean pardon everyone who has broken a law with NO VICTIM.
The law is the definition of malum prohibitum.

Of course I agree, but that is not my point.

[Diomed]

Oh yes, let us pardon everyone with illegal firearms and just continue to screw those who follow the rules. It would be very much in line with the way we have handled taxpayers and non-taxpayers.

Amnesties are necessary though. There are issues with the accuracy of the registry (a bit overblown in the gun culture, but they do exist), and amnesties are a vital part of keeping it accurate. A properly conducted amnesty would also encourage currently registered firearms to be re-registered, to make sure records are accurate and up-to-date.

It's a carryover from the 1934 Act, after a fashion. That law did not prohibit registration of existing firearms. You brought a Russkie machinegun back from Korea and had an attack of conscience in 1965, you filed the papers and paid the money and they gave you a stamp. They killed that in 1968 but allowed for amnesties to cover the inevitable. Of course, they played us and haven't done any since, but that's another discussion.

[kalikraven]

There was the 1934 group but the website is down. They were THE PRO NFA group.


If another group like that existed I'd join.