Can a friend borrow a suppressor?

General silencer discussion. If you want to talk about a specific silenced rifle or pistol, it is best to do that in the rifle or pistol section for that brand.

All NFA laws apply.

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Ray Barnes
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Re: Can a friend borrow a suppressor?

Post by Ray Barnes » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:08 pm

morpheus wrote:If the suppressor in on a Form 4 through a NFA trust, ad him to the trust and he is good to go.
How do you distinguish between individuals who are qualified to possess a firearm and those who are not qualified when adding them to the trust?

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sonanth
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Re: Can a friend borrow a suppressor?

Post by sonanth » Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:49 pm

If he/she cannot legally possess a firearm, they shouldn't be on it.
"Your" does not equal "You're", the contraction for "You are".

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/misspelling

John Titsworth
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Re: Can a friend borrow a suppressor?

Post by John Titsworth » Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:59 pm

morpheus wrote:If the suppressor in on a Form 4 through a NFA trust, ad him to the trust and he is good to go.
The ATF will eventually eliminate the corporate/trust method when they figure out that the silencer has been transferred to an entity and then people (potentially thousands of people, even those with criminal records, or people that cannot pass background checks) can be added to the corporation or trust.

What would preclude someone starting a trust called "The Collective Silencer User Trust". Under this trust anybody can join for a small fee and then take possession of "Trust Silencers" whenever they feel like it. This method of ownership would defeat the spirit of the law/regulations and we all know how ATF is about making up new rules for us.

Bottom line: Don’t loan your silencers, machine guns, AOW's, DD's, etc under any circumstances for any reason EVER. Never borrow a silencer for any length of time, as you will be in illegal possession of a device that is not registered to you. You will go to jail. I believe the minimum sentencing guidelines for a first offense with an NFA violation is 4 years in prison. A felony conviction will ruin your life...and for what? Saving a few hundred dollars?

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Ray Barnes
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Re: Can a friend borrow a suppressor?

Post by Ray Barnes » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:19 am

sonanth wrote:If he/she cannot legally possess a firearm, they shouldn't be on it.
Of course, but how do you verify this if you are unable to execute a background check?

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continuity
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Re: Can a friend borrow a suppressor?

Post by continuity » Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:40 am

Ray Barnes wrote:
sonanth wrote:If he/she cannot legally possess a firearm, they shouldn't be on it.
Of course, but how do you verify this if you are unable to execute a background check?
The circle of friends/family that I would place on a trust that I hold is extremely narrow. These are the same people that have signatory authorization to my bank checking acct. and the one(s) that will make medical intervention decisions if I become unable to do so for myself. If I felt that a backgound on them was necessary, they wouldn't even have been considered for that level of trust. My friend and family member with this status can be counted on two fingers.

Having said that, there are several infernalnet sites who for a nominal cash payment will provide you with all public record information on a person. zabasearch.com, and peoplesearch.com being but two of them.
What amount of a man is composed of his own collection of experiences... and the conclusions that those experiences have allowed him to "know" for certain as "Truth"? :Ick

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Re: Can a friend borrow a suppressor?

Post by glocker17 » Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:35 pm

My attorney provided a document to use to make amendments to the trust she created, back when I had it initially created. The trust it self mentions this process in some detail. Depends on the trust laws in your state. I just got a notary to stamp it.

J.T. I dont think the ATF will stop entity transfers due to this. How could they even do any criminal checks on the trustees with no identifiers? I dont think ATF is even trying to verify that trustors or beneficiaries are in legal possession, just to make sure entity itself can take possession.

I think it comes down to following your states trust laws, and not adding an individual who would be in unlawful possession. My .02

FYI. I would NOT amend a trust to let a buddy use a can once in a while.

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Re: Can a friend borrow a suppressor?

Post by GoodOlDave » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:40 pm

John Titsworth wrote:
morpheus wrote:If the suppressor in on a Form 4 through a NFA trust, ad him to the trust and he is good to go.
The ATF will eventually eliminate the corporate/trust method when they figure out that the silencer has been transferred to an entity and then people (potentially thousands of people, even those with criminal records, or people that cannot pass background checks) can be added to the corporation or trust.
This is the one thing that originally scared me away from going trust. If the ATF wakes up from its own beaurocracy and realize there's a loophole that allows people to register silencers without paying $120,000, getting RFID chip implants, and having to speak pig latin for the rest of their lives, and they decide to stop accepting trust methods, will this retroactively revoke all the trust method registrations they've already made, or are we safe? Dunno what I would do if an ATF agent showed up and told me I had a choice between surrendering my silencer or speaking in pig latin for the rest of my life...

Eyhay, Iyay ustjay OTGAY ymay ilencersay!

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singtoe
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Re: Can a friend borrow a suppressor?

Post by singtoe » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:52 pm

tell your buddy to go buy his own...

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renegade
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Re: Can a friend borrow a suppressor?

Post by renegade » Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:49 am

John Titsworth wrote:
The ATF will eventually eliminate the corporate/trust method when
Corps/trust are authorized by 1934NFA, so only Congress can eliminate it. Otherwise it would already be gone ...

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sonanth
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Re: Can a friend borrow a suppressor?

Post by sonanth » Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:24 pm

continuity wrote:The circle of friends/family that I would place on a trust that I hold is extremely narrow. These are the same people that have signatory authorization to my bank checking acct. and the one(s) that will make medical intervention decisions if I become unable to do so for myself. If I felt that a backgound on them was necessary, they wouldn't even have been considered for that level of trust. My friend and family member with this status can be counted on two fingers.
What continuity said 100%.

Ray Barnes wrote:Of course, but how do you verify this if you are unable to execute a background check?
If you are worried about background checks on the people you want to put on your trust, then, they definitely shouldn't be on it.
"Your" does not equal "You're", the contraction for "You are".

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/misspelling

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Scoundrel
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Re: Can a friend borrow a suppressor?

Post by Scoundrel » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:06 pm

I read through the thread but did not see whether it's OK to let a buddy use my suppressor while I'm standing right there next to him.
I did see a reference to "physical presence" early in the thread but I just want to clarify that with no doubt.

If I take a friend shooting, and I hand him a firearm with suppressor attached, he shoots it and then hands it back, has anyone violated the law there?

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J Krammes
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Re: Can a friend borrow a suppressor?

Post by J Krammes » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:28 pm

Anyone can use your suppressor/SBR/SBS/machinegun. You just must be present.
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continuity
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Re: Can a friend borrow a suppressor?

Post by continuity » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:34 pm

Scoundrel wrote:I read through the thread but did not see whether it's OK to let a buddy use my suppressor while I'm standing right there next to him.
I did see a reference to "physical presence" early in the thread but I just want to clarify that with no doubt.

If I take a friend shooting, and I hand him a firearm with suppressor attached, he shoots it and then hands it back, has anyone violated the law there?
If you are the tax transferred entity on the form x, or a trust originator/designate relative the NFA item, any associated item can be handled/used by any person, as long as are in control/proximity to the subject NFA item.

Caveat being that, that person is able to possess a firearm relative state/local law. To be specific, if they can't handle a firearm due to adjudication, they can't handle your NFA item.

To shorten the answer... as long as they're not a prohibited person, you can let ure buddy use ure stuff... you are good to go... no violation. Stand back and let them..."fire at will".
What amount of a man is composed of his own collection of experiences... and the conclusions that those experiences have allowed him to "know" for certain as "Truth"? :Ick

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Re: Can a friend borrow a suppressor?

Post by raymond- » Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:56 pm

glocker17 wrote:My attorney provided a document to use to make amendments to the trust she created, back when I had it initially created. The trust it self mentions this process in some detail. Depends on the trust laws in your state. I just got a notary to stamp it.

J.T. I dont think the ATF will stop entity transfers due to this. How could they even do any criminal checks on the trustees with no identifiers? I dont think ATF is even trying to verify that trustors or beneficiaries are in legal possession, just to make sure entity itself can take possession.

I think it comes down to following your states trust laws, and not adding an individual who would be in unlawful possession. My .02

FYI. I would NOT amend a trust to let a buddy use a can once in a while.
wow, i am just catching up on older threads and read this opinion. so 2+ years later and we're looking at the changing conditions just around the corner which stand to spin this 180º
raymond-
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